Quick Question RX8 or Civic EP3
Discussion
Ali_T said:
I owned an '01 EP3, one of the first on sale. It was awful. Engine sounded like a bag of spanners out of VTEC, mismatched suspension because they removed the LSD at the last minute and softened the front too much meaning a squidgy front end, bouncy rear, drastic lift off oversteer and steering feel that wouldn't be made worse by anaesthetising your arms. Hugely disappointing car after the DC2 Teg, and made worse by build quality that you'd find unacceptable on a Fiat Uno, never mind a Honda. Suspension failure, drastic oil consumption, interior rattles, terrible paint issues on the plastic bodykit requiring resprays, electric failures, headlight failures, the list just went on and on. All within 3 years and 30,000 miles. To be quite frank, one of the worst cars I've owned.
I followed that up with an '04 RX8 231 and then an '07 RX8 PZ. Despite owning an STI 330s and Evo X FQ330 since then, I still hold the PZ up as the best driver's car I've owned so far, regardless of fuel consumption. And nothing went wrong on it. The 231 only had a fault with the catalyst. Both put the Honda to shame. Would I buy another Civic Type R? God no. Would I buy another RX8? Absolutely.
Interesting to find someone who doesn't like the EP3. I own a 2004 EP3 (facelift model). For mine, there's a couple of things you posted that I can agree on:I followed that up with an '04 RX8 231 and then an '07 RX8 PZ. Despite owning an STI 330s and Evo X FQ330 since then, I still hold the PZ up as the best driver's car I've owned so far, regardless of fuel consumption. And nothing went wrong on it. The 231 only had a fault with the catalyst. Both put the Honda to shame. Would I buy another Civic Type R? God no. Would I buy another RX8? Absolutely.
- Lift-off oversteer is a known thing with EP3s, mine's generally very stable but the oversteer is definitely a snap. I know the owners club have mentioned that it responds completely differently depending on the tyres that are fitted.
- Steering is usually the biggest problem with EP3s; steering racks often need replacing (mine hasn't yet) and there's barely any feedback through the wheel at all.
- For the paint issues, it seems to largely depends on the colour. Milano Red ones tend to fade at different rates, resulting in a multi-hued car. Mine's Nighthawk Black and my only complaint about the paint is that it's very thin and scratches easily.
As for the rest; my oil consumption is actually better than the Celica I owned before it, it's pretty frugal if I'm honest. I've had no issues with electrics minus one fuse blowing, no suspension issues and no headlight problems (although mine is a facelift model which I believe has different headlights). Build quality on mine has been solid, does feel a bit low-budget inside but it's a typical Japanese car in that respect.
Generally it's been a brilliant car; very reliable for me and fun to drive, despite the lack of steering feel spoiling it a bit. With yours being one of the first EP3s, I'm wondering if some of it was production line run-in problems (I think the EP3 was one of the first Honda with the K20A2? I know when it was tested in Japan, it was commented that the engine mounts didn't seem strong enough. As far as I know they were improved but I'm wondering if other problems with it were just due to it being one of the first ones). I know a lot got changed in the facelift update, that might be why I'm not seeing as many problems as you have.
We're actually the reverse, I was originally looking at RX-8s but got scared off by the engine horror stories
Mine was Nighthawk Black as well. The rear spoiler and sideskirts developed circular matte areas all over, like the lacquer was blistering. Some of the rattles I can put down to early build, but I know, from the older forums, that most of us early adopters had similar issues. I was one of the lucky ones that didn't lose a gearbox! As for oil consumption, mine used 7 litres in only the first 4500 miles (even got a mention in Evo mag about that) but Honda UK point blank refused to investigate it. According to them, it would have had to use 9 litres in that time to be faulty! Haven't owned a Honda since thanks to the quality issues, but mainly the sheer uselessness of Honda UK when I needed their help.
I had one of the early EP3s for 4 years also. Bought it when they were supposedly limited to only 1000 made (over ten years ago now - they came out October 2001).
I reckon you must've had a rogue one because I never had any of those problems and knocked up 56k in 4 years before swapping it for an S2000. It was a legal road going go cart compared to other cars at that time.
I know you had a bad experience, but the reliability of the EP3s compared to the RX8s any fool would tell you are miles apart (ie EP3s don't let you down).
I reckon you must've had a rogue one because I never had any of those problems and knocked up 56k in 4 years before swapping it for an S2000. It was a legal road going go cart compared to other cars at that time.
I know you had a bad experience, but the reliability of the EP3s compared to the RX8s any fool would tell you are miles apart (ie EP3s don't let you down).
Exactly. I put nearly 40k on two RX8s with no engine issues. I put 20k on an STI 330S and it blew up. I'd buy another rotary, happily. Wouldn't touch the EJ25 with a bargepole. Researching the problem opened my eyes to just how dodgy the pistons on the STI actually are. Some US sites conducted surveys and reckon on over a 9% failure rate. Subaru have buried their heads in the sand waiting, I suspect, for the end of sales in the Uk which is what, I assume, is the reason for the current massive discounts. They want rid of them.
Edited by Ali_T on Sunday 23 September 21:07
RE040? They're not great in the cold and wet, especially once they're worn. The RE050A handles those conditions noticeably better, though still not that well and it's not quite so sharp in the dry. The stability control on the RX-8 will give you quite a lot of leeway before it intervenes, but it will usually bring the car back in line if things get too hairy.
Proper OEM tyres all round!
Personally, I ran RE040s for most of the time I had it and fitted a set of RE050A near the end of my ownership. More optimal for our climate, if not quite so good in the dry. Still quite an expensive tyre, though - some people swear by Falkens for a more reasonable outlay.
Personally, I ran RE040s for most of the time I had it and fitted a set of RE050A near the end of my ownership. More optimal for our climate, if not quite so good in the dry. Still quite an expensive tyre, though - some people swear by Falkens for a more reasonable outlay.
RE050As were much better than the RE040s. I've had the RE040s on both RX8s and the CTR. Never figured why people like them. Completely useless in the wet and cold. The Eagle F1 Assymetrics are also good. Pilot Super Sports, IMO, are a bit over-rated. Great grip but quiet soft turn in and less steering feel than the Evos previous Yokos, though better than the Scoob's Dunlop Sports.
Edited by Ali_T on Monday 24th September 12:17
I thought the RE040 had the edge in the warm and dry, just a little sharper, but for our climate...
I had the CTR on original equipment RE040s for three and a half years, then I had the RX-8 on them for most of the next three years, then guess what the Elise came with...
The Lotus marked RE040s for the Elise were like rocking horse poo, though, and Lotus had moved to fitting Yokohama AD07s. I put a set of those on when the time came to change, and I much prefer them. Unfortunately, they are also getting a bit hard to obtain for reasonable money. The front tyres are an odd size and hard to get in a performance tyre, but the rears can be obtained more cheaply in AD08 and apparently play nicely with the OEM fronts. It shouldn't be this hard!
I had the CTR on original equipment RE040s for three and a half years, then I had the RX-8 on them for most of the next three years, then guess what the Elise came with...
The Lotus marked RE040s for the Elise were like rocking horse poo, though, and Lotus had moved to fitting Yokohama AD07s. I put a set of those on when the time came to change, and I much prefer them. Unfortunately, they are also getting a bit hard to obtain for reasonable money. The front tyres are an odd size and hard to get in a performance tyre, but the rears can be obtained more cheaply in AD08 and apparently play nicely with the OEM fronts. It shouldn't be this hard!
The RE040s only had the advantage when the road surface was bone dry and the ambient temperature above 10-12 degrees. Below that, the rubber seemed to turn to concrete, and the sidewalls firmed up markedly to give a very hard ride. The 050s were a far better compromise IMO. Never had them on the CTR, I went to the Toyo T1 after the Re040s and they, again, were better but with a significant reduction in turn in.
I've recently put a set of Eagle F1As on the Saab, and I'm quite impressed with them. Apart from traction, a front drive barge is probably not that demanding an application, but they seem quiet, comfortable and grippy, and the relatively low rolling resistance seems to be reflected in the car's fuel consumption.
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