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Neith

308 posts

25 months

[news] 
Wednesday 19th September 2012 quote quote all
Ali_T said:
I owned an '01 EP3, one of the first on sale. It was awful. Engine sounded like a bag of spanners out of VTEC, mismatched suspension because they removed the LSD at the last minute and softened the front too much meaning a squidgy front end, bouncy rear, drastic lift off oversteer and steering feel that wouldn't be made worse by anaesthetising your arms. Hugely disappointing car after the DC2 Teg, and made worse by build quality that you'd find unacceptable on a Fiat Uno, never mind a Honda. Suspension failure, drastic oil consumption, interior rattles, terrible paint issues on the plastic bodykit requiring resprays, electric failures, headlight failures, the list just went on and on. All within 3 years and 30,000 miles. To be quite frank, one of the worst cars I've owned.

I followed that up with an '04 RX8 231 and then an '07 RX8 PZ. Despite owning an STI 330s and Evo X FQ330 since then, I still hold the PZ up as the best driver's car I've owned so far, regardless of fuel consumption. And nothing went wrong on it. The 231 only had a fault with the catalyst. Both put the Honda to shame. Would I buy another Civic Type R? God no. Would I buy another RX8? Absolutely.
Interesting to find someone who doesn't like the EP3. I own a 2004 EP3 (facelift model). For mine, there's a couple of things you posted that I can agree on:
- Lift-off oversteer is a known thing with EP3s, mine's generally very stable but the oversteer is definitely a snap. I know the owners club have mentioned that it responds completely differently depending on the tyres that are fitted.
- Steering is usually the biggest problem with EP3s; steering racks often need replacing (mine hasn't yet) and there's barely any feedback through the wheel at all.
- For the paint issues, it seems to largely depends on the colour. Milano Red ones tend to fade at different rates, resulting in a multi-hued car. Mine's Nighthawk Black and my only complaint about the paint is that it's very thin and scratches easily.

As for the rest; my oil consumption is actually better than the Celica I owned before it, it's pretty frugal if I'm honest. I've had no issues with electrics minus one fuse blowing, no suspension issues and no headlight problems (although mine is a facelift model which I believe has different headlights). Build quality on mine has been solid, does feel a bit low-budget inside but it's a typical Japanese car in that respect.

Generally it's been a brilliant car; very reliable for me and fun to drive, despite the lack of steering feel spoiling it a bit. With yours being one of the first EP3s, I'm wondering if some of it was production line run-in problems (I think the EP3 was one of the first Honda with the K20A2? I know when it was tested in Japan, it was commented that the engine mounts didn't seem strong enough. As far as I know they were improved but I'm wondering if other problems with it were just due to it being one of the first ones). I know a lot got changed in the facelift update, that might be why I'm not seeing as many problems as you have.

We're actually the reverse, I was originally looking at RX-8s but got scared off by the engine horror stories laugh

Ali_T

1,756 posts

142 months

[news] 
Thursday 20th September 2012 quote quote all
Mine was Nighthawk Black as well. The rear spoiler and sideskirts developed circular matte areas all over, like the lacquer was blistering. Some of the rattles I can put down to early build, but I know, from the older forums, that most of us early adopters had similar issues. I was one of the lucky ones that didn't lose a gearbox! As for oil consumption, mine used 7 litres in only the first 4500 miles (even got a mention in Evo mag about that) but Honda UK point blank refused to investigate it. According to them, it would have had to use 9 litres in that time to be faulty! Haven't owned a Honda since thanks to the quality issues, but mainly the sheer uselessness of Honda UK when I needed their help.

jay140285

Original Poster:

506 posts

69 months

[news] 
Thursday 20th September 2012 quote quote all
Cheers Ali T,

All I can say is I am really impressed with the RX8 and the handling is exceptional.

It feels well build, better that a 04 Impreza WRX I had.

elementad

530 posts

35 months

[news] 
Thursday 20th September 2012 quote quote all
I had one of the early EP3s for 4 years also. Bought it when they were supposedly limited to only 1000 made (over ten years ago now - they came out October 2001).

I reckon you must've had a rogue one because I never had any of those problems and knocked up 56k in 4 years before swapping it for an S2000. It was a legal road going go cart compared to other cars at that time.

I know you had a bad experience, but the reliability of the EP3s compared to the RX8s any fool would tell you are miles apart (ie EP3s don't let you down).



Baryonyx

9,831 posts

44 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
jay140285 said:
It feels well build, better that a 04 Impreza WRX I had.
Though you'd trust the build of the Impreza far more. Even the 2.5 Impreza engine, known as the weakest engine put in an Impreza, is many, many times less likely to completely fail than the ill-fated RX-8...
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jay140285

Original Poster:

506 posts

69 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
Yes true, but if and when the RX8 engine does fail 2K and I have a warranted rebuild lump in it.

otolith

25,708 posts

89 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
Baryonyx said:
Though you'd trust the build of the Impreza far more. Even the 2.5 Impreza engine, known as the weakest engine put in an Impreza, is many, many times less likely to completely fail than the ill-fated RX-8...
Ali_T may have some strong opinions on that engine too...

Ali_T

1,756 posts

142 months

[news] 
Sunday 23rd September 2012 quote quote all
Exactly. I put nearly 40k on two RX8s with no engine issues. I put 20k on an STI 330S and it blew up. I'd buy another rotary, happily. Wouldn't touch the EJ25 with a bargepole. Researching the problem opened my eyes to just how dodgy the pistons on the STI actually are. Some US sites conducted surveys and reckon on over a 9% failure rate. Subaru have buried their heads in the sand waiting, I suspect, for the end of sales in the Uk which is what, I assume, is the reason for the current massive discounts. They want rid of them.

Edited by Ali_T on Sunday 23 September 21:07

jay140285

Original Poster:

506 posts

69 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Thanks Ali, always good to hear the positives.

It was a bit twitchy in the wet this morning.

otolith

25,708 posts

89 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
James, what tyres have you got on it?

jay140285

Original Poster:

506 posts

69 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Bridgestone Potenza,

They are about 40 / 50% worn at very most, felt ok on the straights and semi ok on the twists but when coming out of junctions without much acceleration it nearly went a couple of times.

I have had RWD cars before just felt a bit more twitchy.

otolith

25,708 posts

89 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
RE040? They're not great in the cold and wet, especially once they're worn. The RE050A handles those conditions noticeably better, though still not that well and it's not quite so sharp in the dry. The stability control on the RX-8 will give you quite a lot of leeway before it intervenes, but it will usually bring the car back in line if things get too hairy.

jay140285

Original Poster:

506 posts

69 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Just been and looked EO40RZ all round.

What makes do you suggest are a good option for general all round ability, that are not mental money lol.

good to know stability control kicks in when needed.

otolith

25,708 posts

89 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Proper OEM tyres all round!

Personally, I ran RE040s for most of the time I had it and fitted a set of RE050A near the end of my ownership. More optimal for our climate, if not quite so good in the dry. Still quite an expensive tyre, though - some people swear by Falkens for a more reasonable outlay.

jay140285

Original Poster:

506 posts

69 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Cheers, I thought they were OEM tyres given that my friend just brought a new Mazda 6 with Potenza's on.

I will just take it easy with the miles I am doing they will need changing come MOT time in Feb.

Ali_T

1,756 posts

142 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
RE050As were much better than the RE040s. I've had the RE040s on both RX8s and the CTR. Never figured why people like them. Completely useless in the wet and cold. The Eagle F1 Assymetrics are also good. Pilot Super Sports, IMO, are a bit over-rated. Great grip but quiet soft turn in and less steering feel than the Evos previous Yokos, though better than the Scoob's Dunlop Sports.

Edited by Ali_T on Monday 24th September 12:17

otolith

25,708 posts

89 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
I thought the RE040 had the edge in the warm and dry, just a little sharper, but for our climate...

I had the CTR on original equipment RE040s for three and a half years, then I had the RX-8 on them for most of the next three years, then guess what the Elise came with... laugh

The Lotus marked RE040s for the Elise were like rocking horse poo, though, and Lotus had moved to fitting Yokohama AD07s. I put a set of those on when the time came to change, and I much prefer them. Unfortunately, they are also getting a bit hard to obtain for reasonable money. The front tyres are an odd size and hard to get in a performance tyre, but the rears can be obtained more cheaply in AD08 and apparently play nicely with the OEM fronts. It shouldn't be this hard!

Ali_T

1,756 posts

142 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
The RE040s only had the advantage when the road surface was bone dry and the ambient temperature above 10-12 degrees. Below that, the rubber seemed to turn to concrete, and the sidewalls firmed up markedly to give a very hard ride. The 050s were a far better compromise IMO. Never had them on the CTR, I went to the Toyo T1 after the Re040s and they, again, were better but with a significant reduction in turn in.

otolith

25,708 posts

89 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
I've recently put a set of Eagle F1As on the Saab, and I'm quite impressed with them. Apart from traction, a front drive barge is probably not that demanding an application, but they seem quiet, comfortable and grippy, and the relatively low rolling resistance seems to be reflected in the car's fuel consumption.

wolves_wanderer

8,825 posts

122 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
I've got RE050A's on mine at the moment and they are very good in the cold and rain. I had Pzero Rossos before which were great in the warm and dry but not so good in the cold. Apparently Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas are a good choice (if you can find them).
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