GT86 owners - did you consider/drive a M135i?
Discussion
Fantuzzi said:
Id like to know if anyone considered a standard elise, which are the same price at 25k.
That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I was interested in a GT86 and owned an Elise for 3 years. There's a thread about running one everyday currently over on the PH Elise forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I've not driven a GT86, but I should imagine the Elise is much better to drive, but without the practicality. Of course both have Toyota engines, so even in an Elise you benefit from Toyota build quality a bit! The rest of the car isn't up to Toyota standards, but it's really not bad at all and I never had any issues with mine at all.
otolith said:
I've had an Elise for nearly five years, and I've driven the GT86 - it would probably be my first choice of mainstream car if I could no longer live with something like an Elise.
Good to hear 
I'd be in the queue tomorrow if they did roof bars 
In fact I contacted my local Toyota dealer about the GT86 quite a while ago and asked to be kept informed. However, my reason for relegating the Elise to a weekend toy was taking up hobbies that need roof bars, but at the GT86's release it became apparent that Toyota don't do them and have no plans to. I've looked into third party options, and there are some people who've thrown together their own, but nothing I'd trust for regular and reasonably heavy use. Shame.otolith said:
I did have a sneaky plan to persuade my wife to get one when she eventually changes her 350Z, but basically, it wasn't fast enough for her 
Whilst I'm into handling like you and not so bothered about straight line speed, I can undstand that point of view, and it must be more common than ours. If they would only give it 250bhp or more then they'd capture more customers, I'm certain of it. Same with the MR2 - making a 190 version to go alongside the 140 would have been obvious for other manufacturers, but not Toyota...I bought a new M135i just before Christmas and I looked at pretty much everything out there including the Toyota. The thing that put me off right away was the small back seats - what with a german shepherd and hopefully kids one day. I went from a corsa vxr having previously had a boxster and clio 197. The BMW's performance is unreal - a match for my dad's carerra on normal roads but I'm not really getting on with the rear wheel drive and I don't find it as 'chuckable' as the vxr. That said, the quality is brilliant as is the auto box in sport mode.
I'm really interested in the new subaru impreza - seems to be a bit slower but I've always quite liked them - pity about the boy racer image though (which I endured with the vxr).
I'm really interested in the new subaru impreza - seems to be a bit slower but I've always quite liked them - pity about the boy racer image though (which I endured with the vxr).
Edited by Martin_M on Wednesday 15th January 22:25
Martin_M said:
I bought a new M135i just before Christmas and I looked at pretty much everything out there including the Toyota. The thing that put me off right away was the small back seats - what with a german shepherd and hopefully kids one day. I went from a corsa vxr having previously had a boxster and clio 197. The BMW's performance is unreal - a match for my dad's carerra on normal roads but I'm not really getting on with the rear wheel drive and I don't find it as 'chuckable' as the vxr. That said, the quality is brilliant as is the auto box in sport mode.
I'm really interested in the new subaru impreza - seems to be a bit slower but I've always quite liked them - pitty about the boy racer image though (which I endured with the vxr).
I went from my first car, an AX GT, to a Celica Carlos Sainz and can confirm that a 4WD rally rep, especially an Impreza, will give you that chuckability back whilst avoiding one of the two disadvantages of FWD, traction. Sadly the other disadvantage: weight distribution, will still be there, but from what you say above I think you'd really like an Impreza - well worth a test drive I'm really interested in the new subaru impreza - seems to be a bit slower but I've always quite liked them - pitty about the boy racer image though (which I endured with the vxr).
otolith said:
Yes, but difficult to do without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Turbocharging is wrong for that car, in my opinion, and a larger, heavier engine would upset the balance. Supercharging would do nicely, but doesn't do the CO2 figures any favours.
Good point. I suppose BMW have a raft of off the shelf engines to choose from that split their development costs over several platforms. Toyota don't have a revvy, lightweight and powerful engine to hand. Mind you, Lotus managed to put the Toyota V6 in the Exige without upsetting things too much, but it was a heavily re-engineered chassis.And in case you're wondering why I'm lurking on here - I can't stand much more of the children in the M power section arguing about the M135i being or not being an M car. The reality is, if someone who buys an M135i really wants an M3 for example, then a nearly new example could be had within budget so I think a lot of the elitist snobbery of some owners there is misguided.
Martin_M said:
And in case you're wondering why I'm lurking on here - I can't stand much more of the children in the M power section arguing about the M135i being or not being an M car. The reality is, if someone who buys an M135i really wants an M3 for example, then a nearly new example could be had within budget so I think a lot of the elitist snobbery of some owners there is misguided.
Welcome to PH Hopefully you'll find Jap Chat much more down to earth. We had the same nonsense when the Boxster came out; a time when the Boxster's asking price would have bought you quite a nice 911, and still will to this day. Who cares if the M135i is a proper M car - buy the car you enjoy driving RobM77 said:
Good point. I suppose BMW have a raft of off the shelf engines to choose from that split their development costs over several platforms. Toyota don't have a revvy, lightweight and powerful engine to hand. Mind you, Lotus managed to put the Toyota V6 in the Exige without upsetting things too much, but it was a heavily re-engineered chassis.
True - but then the Elise never had the benefit of an engine with a low CoG to begin with! I think an Elise properly engineered by Lotus with a flat or rotary engine would be a very interesting thing. I don't know if the Toyota would take a flat six, I suspect not if they've packaged it as efficiently as they should have!
otolith said:
RobM77 said:
Good point. I suppose BMW have a raft of off the shelf engines to choose from that split their development costs over several platforms. Toyota don't have a revvy, lightweight and powerful engine to hand. Mind you, Lotus managed to put the Toyota V6 in the Exige without upsetting things too much, but it was a heavily re-engineered chassis.
True - but then the Elise never had the benefit of an engine with a low CoG to begin with! I think an Elise properly engineered by Lotus with a flat or rotary engine would be a very interesting thing. I don't know if the Toyota would take a flat six, I suspect not if they've packaged it as efficiently as they should have!
It often amuses me how the Cayman and Evora do similar things, but the Cayman has perfect underpinnings and the Evora doesn't, but for most people the Evora is actually better to drive.I looked at both the GT86 and the M135i after owning a 350Z for 18 months, you can probably guess from my name which one I bought!
The BMW dealer didn't call me back, so never got to test drive one. However, it was a bit more expensive and there were fewer used examples around. I resent buying cars brand new as you take a massive depreciation hit in the first year, predominately due to VAT. Also, I find many of the latest BMW's to be devoid of feel, steering, pedal and through the chassis. It just doesn't feel communicative enough for what is described as the "Ultimate Driving Machine".
If I chose the M135i I would have wanted the trick suspension, sat nav, metallic paint and the ZF auto on the BMW. This would have put it right on the edge of my budget and well over £30k. Also, it isn't a particularly good looking vehicle.
I went for the GT86 as it had all the tech that I wanted (sat nav, bluetooth, DLNA etc), low running costs (tyres are £120ish, servicing is reasonable, insurance is £400 at 26yo), a long warranty and handles exceptionally. I found one in the right colour and spec, 9 months old with £6000-7000 off list.
Initially when buying it it felt slow compared to the Z, but after a week or so of adjusting my driving style it feels like it has more than enough poke. The lack of torque was the problem, I rarely used first in the Z or wrung it out to the redline to make progress, the GT86 requires that sort of driving and begs to be driven hard and above 4-5000 RPM. The car is brilliantly set up, it reminds me of a Lotus Elise in the way it turns in, it also communicates a lot of information to the driver. The tyres, although some people dislike them, means you can have fun within legal limits. In the Z those boundaries were much higher.
When it is parked up and I am stood nearby, you can see several people turn their heads to look at it. I don't think you would get that in the BMW.
The BMW dealer didn't call me back, so never got to test drive one. However, it was a bit more expensive and there were fewer used examples around. I resent buying cars brand new as you take a massive depreciation hit in the first year, predominately due to VAT. Also, I find many of the latest BMW's to be devoid of feel, steering, pedal and through the chassis. It just doesn't feel communicative enough for what is described as the "Ultimate Driving Machine".
If I chose the M135i I would have wanted the trick suspension, sat nav, metallic paint and the ZF auto on the BMW. This would have put it right on the edge of my budget and well over £30k. Also, it isn't a particularly good looking vehicle.
I went for the GT86 as it had all the tech that I wanted (sat nav, bluetooth, DLNA etc), low running costs (tyres are £120ish, servicing is reasonable, insurance is £400 at 26yo), a long warranty and handles exceptionally. I found one in the right colour and spec, 9 months old with £6000-7000 off list.
Initially when buying it it felt slow compared to the Z, but after a week or so of adjusting my driving style it feels like it has more than enough poke. The lack of torque was the problem, I rarely used first in the Z or wrung it out to the redline to make progress, the GT86 requires that sort of driving and begs to be driven hard and above 4-5000 RPM. The car is brilliantly set up, it reminds me of a Lotus Elise in the way it turns in, it also communicates a lot of information to the driver. The tyres, although some people dislike them, means you can have fun within legal limits. In the Z those boundaries were much higher.
When it is parked up and I am stood nearby, you can see several people turn their heads to look at it. I don't think you would get that in the BMW.
mattGT86 said:
When it is parked up and I am stood nearby, you can see several people turn their heads to look at it. I don't think you would get that in the BMW.
Oh I expect you would, but not for the same reasons!!! 
Just look at it!!
and now look at this:
I don't really buy cars on looks, or should I say avoid cars because of their bad looks, but I do make exceptions...
mattGT86 said:
The BMW looks quite upset and "portly". I really liked the look of the previous generation 1-series, and also the latest 2/3/4/5 series are all really good looking cars. What happened?
I don't know what they were thinking. I think it's the only car I've ever known to suit my requirements perfectly but I don't want one because of the way it looks - I can't remember ever bring that bothered before about looks on a car.So our message to the industry is:
BMW: Sort you design team out! Too much Angry Birds I think!
Toyota: You are wonderful, but please design cars with roof bars in mind. If anything the buyers you're aiming at with the GT86 are more likely than average to go mountsin biking or surfing, not less likely!
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