Forum name change?

Poll: Forum name change?

Total Members Polled: 72

No: 79%
Yes: 21%
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Author
Discussion

PHuzzy

2,747 posts

171 months

Saturday 20th September 2014
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PZR said:
It'd be nice if the people using the term could see the light and self-edit. As has been pointed out and this thread has proved, much of the time the term is being used casually and unthinkingly by people who see and hear others using it and think it's OK. That's how these things work. In my experience, the vast majority of people who use the term have had little or no direct contact with Japan or the Japanese and have probably never been in the situation where they would realise what the term means to those whom it refers to.

I like Pistonheads, and tend to respect the powers-that-be here. That's why I hoped that PH admin would lead by example and stop using the term 'Jap' in a sub-forum name. You personally guaranteed that this would not happen (on the forum split thread, where you also told me that I'm "free to leave" if I don't like it...) so I'm not surprised, just disappointed again. To my mind, it's something that should not need to be voted on.

On the other hand, it's encouraging to see that there are other members here who feel the same way as me and are prepared to say so.
You do sound like a whiney kid who cannot get his own way.
The word isn't racist, the way it's used 'can' make the word come across as racist. This is not one of them instances, quit your moaning and start writing off to various government departments to get names that contain 'potentially' offensive words banned.

Gravel

116 posts

119 months

Saturday 20th September 2014
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PHuzzy said:
You do sound like a whiney kid who cannot get his own way.
The word isn't racist, the way it's used 'can' make the word come across as racist. This is not one of them instances, quit your moaning and start writing off to various government departments to get names that contain 'potentially' offensive words banned.
I think it's a fairly simple concept that offence is taken, not given - you don't get to decide whether or not the person you're addressing as a 'Jap' should or shouldn't take offence!

Would it be alright for me to call you a c**t if I meant it in the friendly Scottish sense - i.e. 'smart c**t' rather than the less likely to offend 'smart alec'?

This thread seems to have established that some members are offended or atleast uncomfortable with the name of this forum (myself included) - you just seem to be searching for justifications for not giving a damn!

I would say though that the poll was IMO lacking a don't care option - for all of those people who aren't offended, but aren't demanding their democratic right to continue offending a minority.

PHuzzy

2,747 posts

171 months

Saturday 20th September 2014
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Gravel said:
I think it's a fairly simple concept that offence is taken, not given - you don't get to decide whether or not the person you're addressing as a 'Jap' should or shouldn't take offence!

Would it be alright for me to call you a c**t if I meant it in the friendly Scottish sense - i.e. 'smart c**t' rather than the less likely to offend 'smart alec'?

This thread seems to have established that some members are offended or atleast uncomfortable with the name of this forum (myself included) - you just seem to be searching for justifications for not giving a damn!

I would say though that the poll was IMO lacking a don't care option - for all of those people who aren't offended, but aren't demanding their democratic right to continue offending a minority.
But you're not addressing a person are you? It's an inanimate object so it cannot take offence, therefore people are getting offended on the basis of a word.

I'm not searching for anything, JapFest is another example of the same thing. It is a common way to describe the origin of a car (which cannot be offended) and yet people are saying it's 'racist'?!
I'd agree with the arguement if it was aimed at a person in a hateful manner but it just isn't.

Invoking Godwin here but the swastika is deemed offensive due to it's use in a parties history but yet the actual insignia is not. It's all about perception and recently people have started to take offence at the smallest thing when in reality they shouldn't!

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Saturday 20th September 2014
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selym said:
How do you think they'd feel about being named in italics?
PZR has taken break from reading the Grauniad to show us all that he's worked out the way to italicise his posts.

PZR

627 posts

184 months

Saturday 20th September 2014
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Baryonyx said:
selym said:
How do you think they'd feel about being named in italics?
PZR has taken a break from reading the Grauniad to show us all that he's worked out the way to italicise his posts.
Can do bold too, see? I don't read The Guardian. Do read Private Eye.

Bit late to that particular party, aren't you? 16 days and all you can come up with is that?

I was trying to get across the point that the term is offensive to the Japanese (as distinct from "...over in the US.") and your response is to pick up on the italics that I'm using in the hope of being better understood? Wow.





PZR

627 posts

184 months

Saturday 20th September 2014
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PHuzzy said:
You do sound like a whiney kid who cannot get his own way.
That kind of comment makes me wonder if you've read and understood the points being made by both sides? You can insult me all you like, but if I'm not explaining my main points clearly enough for you to understand them then I've clearly failed.

Here's a few straight questions for you: What's your experience of Japan and the Japanese people? Do you know any Japanese people personally? Have you been to Japan? Do you honestly think the term 'Jap' is so innocuous that you'd happily use it out loud in Japan or in front of a Japanese person without fear of your intentions being misconstrued? If not, then why would you risk it?

And I ask again, what's so difficult or troublesome about writing and saying 'Japan' and 'Japanese' in full?


PHuzzy said:
But you're not addressing a person are you? It's an inanimate object so it cannot take offence, therefore people are getting offended on the basis of a word.
The sub-forum's name is 'Jap Chat'. It's not 'Jap Car Chat' / 'Jap Motors Chat' or any other permutation that specifically points to the cars, so I think it's a poor choice. And just like 'JapFest' and so many other examples, it was probably chosen because it's easy to rhyme and sounds catchy.

I'm sure there's no negative intent let alone willful "racism", but - as has been pointed out by others more eloquent and concise than myself - it may offend and at the very least (my main point...) it IS disrespectful to Japan and the Japanese. Now why would a grown-up site and forum like PistonHeads want to risk that?

I'm not expecting, or even bothering to hope that individuals will stop using the term (a quick browse through the forum will show you just how often the term is used without a second thought) but simply hoping that the PH Gods would see the light and set the example. Amazing how many people seem to be so attached to it.


Kinky

39,456 posts

268 months

Saturday 20th September 2014
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God, is this thread really still running?

Someone kill it quick ...
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