GT86 - The dilemma

[LordGrover]

It isn't worth trying to reason with cretinous posts like this:

had ham said:

You don't like my opinion because it differs from yours? Nothing worse than fanbois.

He seems to rather miss the fact that it is he getting argumentative, worked up and defensive because we, the owners, don't agree with his preconceived misconceptions he's gleaned from the Internet.

[Animala]

300bhp/ton said:

had ham said:

Animala said:

My favourite part was about how most cars grip better LOL!!!

Yeah okay, why don't we see how well those "most other cars" grip compared to the 86 when wearing the exact same tyres.

Your point being what, exactly???

That you obviously have no idea between the differences of grip and handling...

Pretty much yeah.

My point (laid out as simply as I can) was that if you put different cars under the exact same circumstances as the 86, as in tyres (which account to about 90%+ of any cars grip), speed, track, same driver etc, then cars in the same category/price range will struggle to out handle one.

[anonymous-user]

LordGrover said:

He seems to rather miss the fact that it is he getting argumentative, nor worked up and defensive because we, the owners, don't agree with his preconceived misconceptions he's gleaned from the Internet.

I'm not getting argumentative, nor could I give a st/defensive (I'm actually intrigued how anyone could could get 'defensive' when I'm not sure what I should be 'defensive' about), but hey, you, the owners (cringe) spent your money on one of those and now you're trying to justify that. Good luck.

I've spent more than enough time behind the wheel of the GT86 on road (st) and track (far better, but embarrassingly slow) to know it's pretty poor.

I'll say it again, I hate fanbois.

[otolith]

I think what you are missing is that your objections are subjective. The people who bought them bought them because they like them, not vice-versa. I've no dog in this fight, but I note that you've had several 350Zs. My wife has a 350Z. I prefer how a GT86 handles. You evidently don't. Subjective.

[GravelBen]

Maybe the 'embarrasingly slow' was the driver rather than the car.

[Animala]

had ham said:

you, the owners (cringe) spent your money on one of those and now you're trying to justify that. Good luck.

Holy st. What a grade A .

I also had a 350Z for years until recently & loved it. The straight line speed was obviously completely out of the 86s league but in terms of everything else the 86 was just better. BUT!!!! like otolith said, that's subjective. Because it is my opinion. You think the people that bought an 86 feel like they need to justify doing so because YOU don't like them? I hope you're not a tt like that in person to peoples faces.

Also not everyone that owns an 86 is a, as you keep putting it, "fanboi". I worked for Toyota for two years & most of the people that had them simply got them because they liked them on test drive & the way they looked. They had no idea where the 86 name came from, don't follow any of the Toyota (or any other manufacturer) build history & only one of them ever inquired about modifying the car. Would you say everyone that owns any sort of sporty Golf is automatically a DUB maniac? Or that anyone that drives a BMW is a self deluded elitist, non indicating, snob? (I do to that one, but again, just my opinion through a lot of 1st hand experience).

Edited by Animala on Saturday 22 August 12:22

[liner33]

It might be worth mentioning that the 350z and 370z dont sell well either there is little appetite for these kind of cars

I love the looks of the GT86 and even like the inside, its not cheap looking its just Japanese! They are nice to drive as well and I considered one before settling on the 370z, both very different cars and I'm sure I would have more fun in a 86 at legal speeds than I can in the zed.

If they had made one with a different engine it might have been a harder decision of that there is no doubt

[nottyash]

otolith said:

I think what you are missing is that your objections are subjective. The people who bought them bought them because they like them, not vice-versa. I've no dog in this fight, but I note that you've had several 350Zs. My wife has a 350Z. I prefer how a GT86 handles. You evidently don't. Subjective.

Your comparing a 7 year old car which is no longer made with a new one which costs twice as much.
It should be compared to the 370z which is smaller, wider, lighter and more powerful than the 350. Also the interior of the 370 is great, and leagues ahead of the 350

[otolith]

nottyash said:

otolith said:

I think what you are missing is that your objections are subjective. The people who bought them bought them because they like them, not vice-versa. I've no dog in this fight, but I note that you've had several 350Zs. My wife has a 350Z. I prefer how a GT86 handles. You evidently don't. Subjective.

Your comparing a 7 year old car which is no longer made with a new one which costs twice as much.
It should be compared to the 370z which is smaller, wider, lighter and more powerful than the 350. Also the interior of the 370 is great, and leagues ahead of the 350

Not really relevant, I was comparing the handling. The GT86 reminds me of the RX-8, which I also preferred to the 350Z. It's simply a matter of taste in a very subjective judgement.

[nottyash]

otolith said:

Not really relevant, I was comparing the handling. The GT86 reminds me of the RX-8, which I also preferred to the 350Z. It's simply a matter of taste in a very subjective judgement.

The complete handling experience requires grip and power and neither of them cars you mentioned have that.
If you mean hooning around with a controllable back end then yes I agree.
You try taking a bend at real high speed, and something like the 370z or a Boxster S are far better, and a much more planted feel which gives more confidence.

[otolith]

nottyash said:

The complete handling experience requires grip and power and neither of them cars you mentioned have that.
If you mean hooning around with a controllable back end then yes I agree.
You try taking a bend at real high speed, and something like the 370z or a Boxster S are far better, and a much more planted feel which gives more confidence.

That is precisely the kind of subjective judgement I am talking about, thanks for illustrating it.

Does, say, an Audi RS4 handle better than a 205 GTi? If you value "planted", "confidence", yes. One man's "planted" is another man's "stodgy", just as one man's "playful" is another's "twitchy". The GT86 is like that because it's designed to be, because some people like that, and most cars these days are set up for the other kind of people, who don't.

[nottyash]

I do see what you mean. I bought a cheap MX5 purly to have fun like that.
I wouldn't believe the MX5 hype that it's a good handling car, but it is fun.
It's far too light at the back end, lacking grip and making it tail happy but that's kind of why I bought it.
One car I do agree with a lot of write ups on handling is the Mk3 mr2. Cracking little things, but again up to a point of speed, because they lack power.

[otolith]

It's partly because there's a disconnect between what's achievable, what's rational and what people find fun. It isn't rational to do anything but build a car which just grips and grips whatever you do, but the capability for doing that is now well beyond what you actually need and people don't actually buy cars for entirely rational reasons. It's not as if a sensibly driven GT86 or MX-5 is going to fall off the road.

[Robert Elise]

Handling is of course subjective. The last few posters here probably agree that an RS4 does not handle well. It has grip and traction to an extreme, yes.
Surely the Elan is the handling benchmark?
communicative, predictable, playful....
Notty, i think the MX5 is a great handling car. Tho geo is essential. MR2 mk3 great well. i'm less convinced by the S2000, but i'm certainly not dissing it.