Discussion
Hello. I have just sold my Tuscan and I thought I would be sensible for once and allocate 12-13K for a reliable Honda...I had my eyes set on an S2000, which I drove recently and was not very impressed. The car felt like it had an on-off switch in terms of accelaration, had very neutral handling (OK, for some this is a good thing), an akward driving position (I am 6ft 3, the non-adjustable steering wheel was on my lap)and the electronic dash board was not exactly to my taste.
I then went on to drive the Civic Type R which really impressed me. It felt at least as fast, it was very agile and manouvreable with loads of traction (and a slightly light-dettached feeling though) a lovely interior with its white dials and chrome gear knob, a bit more torgey in my opinion and overall great, great fun. It made me feel 10 years younger (back to the time when I was driving a tuned Fiat Punto GT, only this one could do more than just blast out on a straight line).
A part of me is finding it difficult to go from what I perceived as a "supercar" to a hot hatch. 13K would get me a 2003 low miler Type R or a 2001 S2000.
Please share your opinions, knowledge and experience with me...
I then went on to drive the Civic Type R which really impressed me. It felt at least as fast, it was very agile and manouvreable with loads of traction (and a slightly light-dettached feeling though) a lovely interior with its white dials and chrome gear knob, a bit more torgey in my opinion and overall great, great fun. It made me feel 10 years younger (back to the time when I was driving a tuned Fiat Punto GT, only this one could do more than just blast out on a straight line).
A part of me is finding it difficult to go from what I perceived as a "supercar" to a hot hatch. 13K would get me a 2003 low miler Type R or a 2001 S2000.
Please share your opinions, knowledge and experience with me...
Did you have an unholy TVR reliability experience? Sorry, not trying to sound smug or anything,but it does seem to be TVR's major bug bear.
Tough choice,both very respectable performers,tho quite different cars.Decent residuals too.
Coming from a TVR I imagine you'd be used to plenty of low & mid end grunt.
The Vtech's are very different there,more top-end I suppose,need to be driven fairly hard.
My choice would be the S2000-but...
If the Type R gives you that grin factor & makes you feel 10 yrs younger,(probably a more practical choice too) then the answer is obvious.
>> Edited by tuttle on Thursday 23 June 12:04
Tough choice,both very respectable performers,tho quite different cars.Decent residuals too. Coming from a TVR I imagine you'd be used to plenty of low & mid end grunt.
The Vtech's are very different there,more top-end I suppose,need to be driven fairly hard.
My choice would be the S2000-but...
If the Type R gives you that grin factor & makes you feel 10 yrs younger,(probably a more practical choice too) then the answer is obvious.
>> Edited by tuttle on Thursday 23 June 12:04
If you're after cheap running costs, go for the CTR - a 4y.o. S2k may start hitting bills at 5 or 6y.o., which would defeat the object.
S2k just needs to be revved...they're actually really quick, and have loads of grip. But driving position is important...
Summary: I think the S2k would feel more special day-in-day-out, and would in the dry be quicker. But both are very good cars.
S2k just needs to be revved...they're actually really quick, and have loads of grip. But driving position is important...
Summary: I think the S2k would feel more special day-in-day-out, and would in the dry be quicker. But both are very good cars.
I owned a CTR for almost two years and have been driving the S2000 I changed it for for just over a year now.
both cars are great but the S2000 is definitely much more "special" - still a real head-turner.
the ctr is a great hot hatch and performs almost as well in a straight line as the S2000.
if you can live with the two seats and not a lot of luggage space of the S2000 then go fotr it.
I'm also 6' 3" but got used to the driving position after a couple of weeks settling in.
the vtec engines can be hard to get used to - to extract their full potential you need to keep thev revs up at 6K and above in both cars but below that they're not too bad and keeping below the high-cam is a lot better for your fuel economy!
if you've got any specific questions feel free to ask!
both cars are great but the S2000 is definitely much more "special" - still a real head-turner.
the ctr is a great hot hatch and performs almost as well in a straight line as the S2000.
if you can live with the two seats and not a lot of luggage space of the S2000 then go fotr it.
I'm also 6' 3" but got used to the driving position after a couple of weeks settling in.
the vtec engines can be hard to get used to - to extract their full potential you need to keep thev revs up at 6K and above in both cars but below that they're not too bad and keeping below the high-cam is a lot better for your fuel economy!
if you've got any specific questions feel free to ask!
Have a look at my car - all the costs of 3 years of S2000 ownership are there.
It sounds like you have talked yourself into a CTR. I'm 6'2" and 16 stone and have no problems fitting in the S2000, however I believe that the 2002 models onward have the seat about 1 inch lower.
Faults (mostly minor):
Plastic screen on earlier models
crap stereo on earlier models.
headlamp washer switch on early models (too near your elbow)
Honda Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) 055 and 056 - clutch on earlier cars. see www.s2ki.com for details.
Alloys are crap (they corrode easliy).
95 RON = Kangaroo petrol - 98 preferred.
Leather seats sometimes dont wear that well.
Standard S02's are pooor in the wet (handling aint neutral then!).
Wind deflector £200 if one isn't fitted (option on earlry cars) - get one from one of the preferred suppliers on s2ki.
Standard mats are rubbish - get some muz mats through S2ki.
Lots of info here:
www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showforum=25
>> Edited by douglasr on Thursday 23 June 22:54
It sounds like you have talked yourself into a CTR. I'm 6'2" and 16 stone and have no problems fitting in the S2000, however I believe that the 2002 models onward have the seat about 1 inch lower.
Faults (mostly minor):
Plastic screen on earlier models
crap stereo on earlier models.
headlamp washer switch on early models (too near your elbow)
Honda Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) 055 and 056 - clutch on earlier cars. see www.s2ki.com for details.
Alloys are crap (they corrode easliy).
95 RON = Kangaroo petrol - 98 preferred.
Leather seats sometimes dont wear that well.
Standard S02's are pooor in the wet (handling aint neutral then!).
Wind deflector £200 if one isn't fitted (option on earlry cars) - get one from one of the preferred suppliers on s2ki.
Standard mats are rubbish - get some muz mats through S2ki.
Lots of info here:
www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showforum=25
>> Edited by douglasr on Thursday 23 June 22:54
"I just can't imagine a CTR impresses more than an S2000 . . . "
...I have just sold a Tuscan...impressing is not top of my list at the moment...
It seems the running costs for both are ridiculous compared to the Tuscan...£283 for a service? Try £1200!
Maybe I should buy both, I could actually afford them after selling my TVR!
But then again it would be nice to spend some money on something other than cars for a change...and not scrape the bottom of my drawer to get money for petrol for my new car
All good info so far guys...
...I have just sold a Tuscan...impressing is not top of my list at the moment...
It seems the running costs for both are ridiculous compared to the Tuscan...£283 for a service? Try £1200!
Maybe I should buy both, I could actually afford them after selling my TVR!
But then again it would be nice to spend some money on something other than cars for a change...and not scrape the bottom of my drawer to get money for petrol for my new car
All good info so far guys...
I've had a CTR for nearly 3 years now and still love it to bits
Absoulutely no warranty issues what so ever, probably wouldn't be able to say that if I'd opted for the Clio I was considering. I keep it well serviced, let it get warm then thrash it to within an inch of its life on every journey and it just keeps saying, "Is that the best you can do?"
Add to that the fact that I once fitted an entire bathroom suite into it (bath, bog, cistern, pedestal, taps) and you get practicality along with reliability and performance.
So the suspensions a bit hard, I'd say that's a plus point, makes it feel 'go-karty'. So it looks like a van, I happen to like the way it looks, kinda sharp, pointy and aggressive. So the steering's a bit duff, take it to ABP for £140 and have the geometry upgrade to truly sort it. So you can't go sideways around corners, can't say I'd want to be able to do that, I'd be tempted to act like a dick on round abouts and crash alot.
Just my thoughts
Absoulutely no warranty issues what so ever, probably wouldn't be able to say that if I'd opted for the Clio I was considering. I keep it well serviced, let it get warm then thrash it to within an inch of its life on every journey and it just keeps saying, "Is that the best you can do?"
Add to that the fact that I once fitted an entire bathroom suite into it (bath, bog, cistern, pedestal, taps) and you get practicality along with reliability and performance.
So the suspensions a bit hard, I'd say that's a plus point, makes it feel 'go-karty'. So it looks like a van, I happen to like the way it looks, kinda sharp, pointy and aggressive. So the steering's a bit duff, take it to ABP for £140 and have the geometry upgrade to truly sort it. So you can't go sideways around corners, can't say I'd want to be able to do that, I'd be tempted to act like a dick on round abouts and crash alot.
Just my thoughts
Haven't owned a CTR, but been for a few test drives, and was impressed by how much fun it was, and similar to the S2000 in a lot of ways.
But ultimately I think the S2000 will be much more rewarding if you learn to drive it properly, whereas the CTR is basically a FWD hot hatch that any ninny can get in and drive quickly.
As far as I'm concerned, the S2000 is a much more special and rewarding car, and if I ever wanted to downscale the amount of money I have tied up in my car, I'd be very tempted to go back to the S2000 from my Tamora.
But ultimately I think the S2000 will be much more rewarding if you learn to drive it properly, whereas the CTR is basically a FWD hot hatch that any ninny can get in and drive quickly.
As far as I'm concerned, the S2000 is a much more special and rewarding car, and if I ever wanted to downscale the amount of money I have tied up in my car, I'd be very tempted to go back to the S2000 from my Tamora.
I don't need or want anything in particular (in terms of seats, doors, roof, roadster, coupe etc), except something cheaper and more reliable to run that the Tuscan -well, that 's easy!- Apart from that it is driver's thrills (first) and raw pace (a close second)...
>> Edited by mercurius on Saturday 25th June 17:36
>> Edited by mercurius on Saturday 25th June 17:36
Integras are nice and have great pace but I am not too sure about the styling (OK, so the styling has a little to do with it also). Both cars I drove were 2004, well looked after by a main dealer...what I felt was that the S2000 was not powerful enough to justify its presence...it looks faster than it actually is and combined with the on-off engine feeling and bad seating position, I felt a bit...cheated! She also did not seem to be up for "fun and games" but perhaps this is just me stepping out of a Tuscan...she felt too neutral, too sorted!
On the other hand I felt comfortable in the CTR, it felt as fast as the S2000 -without saying "I am not as fast as I look" the handling was great fun as I threw it around the corners and I thought the interior was less "tacky"...(not too sure about the 1980's-corolla like-rev counter the S2000 has). I also felt that however good the S2000's gearbox is (though they have been known to spit their gears out) the Civic's was even better...As a matter of fact I think it was the best gearbox I have ever come accross -and I have driven a few cars in my time-.
Believe me, I am also trying to talk my self into an S2000 (having ruled out the Boxster and 911 option)...from Tuscan to Civic will feel a bit harsh! Then again that grin on my face as I squeezed between traffic on a b-road in the little Honda...
>> Edited by mercurius on Saturday 25th June 18:09
>> Edited by mercurius on Saturday 25th June 18:10
On the other hand I felt comfortable in the CTR, it felt as fast as the S2000 -without saying "I am not as fast as I look" the handling was great fun as I threw it around the corners and I thought the interior was less "tacky"...(not too sure about the 1980's-corolla like-rev counter the S2000 has). I also felt that however good the S2000's gearbox is (though they have been known to spit their gears out) the Civic's was even better...As a matter of fact I think it was the best gearbox I have ever come accross -and I have driven a few cars in my time-.
Believe me, I am also trying to talk my self into an S2000 (having ruled out the Boxster and 911 option)...from Tuscan to Civic will feel a bit harsh! Then again that grin on my face as I squeezed between traffic on a b-road in the little Honda...
>> Edited by mercurius on Saturday 25th June 18:09
>> Edited by mercurius on Saturday 25th June 18:10
mercurius said:
what I felt was that the S2000 was not powerful enough to justify its presence...it looks faster than it actually is and combined with the on-off engine feeling and bad seating position, I felt a bit...cheated!
Many people are surprised at how quick it is. It's no TVR in a straight line but will hold it's own with more powerful machinery on twisties.
You don't 'get it' unfortunately, I think you'd be better off with a CTR.
I have a CTR and up until 2 months ago I had an MY04 S2000 which I have replaced with a TVR Griffith 500.
I would go for the one you like the most. The S2000 is slightly quicker when you thrash it but to me the CTR always felt perkier and is certainly more pratical. The S2000 looks great but is - unsurprisingly - a completely different cup of tea to the CTR.
I prefer RWD and do miss the S2K's everyday driveability and reliabililty compared to the TVR. The S's handling is IMO better than the CTR ..... wet or dry when comparing with a 2004 S2K - but then I have always preferred and am quite experienced with RWD so I would say that!
I have no regrets keeping the CTR but I think either car would grow on you if you bought it - the S2K particularly takes time to appreciate. By virtue of the way the engine works it is never going to feel super quick on a first drive and never straight off the mark.
One thing I have noticed though is that once in Vtec the S2K will stay there through gear changes whereas the CTR seems to drop out for a second or two on each gearchange.
I am stating the obvious here but do think that compared to a Tuscan both will feel 'slow' - as would most things - but will be far more driveable and relaxing in a still exciting way. The handling of either is far easier to exploit than my Griffith thats for sure ...... Oh, and no heavy clutch or gearbox ! Infact both have the best gearboxes I have ever used; especially the S2000.
I was going to keep the S2K as well as the Griff and CTR but common sense and a nagging wife got the better of me - I really did like the S2K and, as I say, it grows on you but the CTR is more useable..... except in the wet when the wheels just spin everywhere!
Hope this helps!
I would go for the one you like the most. The S2000 is slightly quicker when you thrash it but to me the CTR always felt perkier and is certainly more pratical. The S2000 looks great but is - unsurprisingly - a completely different cup of tea to the CTR.
I prefer RWD and do miss the S2K's everyday driveability and reliabililty compared to the TVR. The S's handling is IMO better than the CTR ..... wet or dry when comparing with a 2004 S2K - but then I have always preferred and am quite experienced with RWD so I would say that!
I have no regrets keeping the CTR but I think either car would grow on you if you bought it - the S2K particularly takes time to appreciate. By virtue of the way the engine works it is never going to feel super quick on a first drive and never straight off the mark.
One thing I have noticed though is that once in Vtec the S2K will stay there through gear changes whereas the CTR seems to drop out for a second or two on each gearchange.
I am stating the obvious here but do think that compared to a Tuscan both will feel 'slow' - as would most things - but will be far more driveable and relaxing in a still exciting way. The handling of either is far easier to exploit than my Griffith thats for sure ...... Oh, and no heavy clutch or gearbox ! Infact both have the best gearboxes I have ever used; especially the S2000.
I was going to keep the S2K as well as the Griff and CTR but common sense and a nagging wife got the better of me - I really did like the S2K and, as I say, it grows on you but the CTR is more useable..... except in the wet when the wheels just spin everywhere!
Hope this helps!
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