MR2 Overheated - what to do?
Discussion
tuttle said:
Some of the chemicals in certain coolants can cause gaskets or rubber & aluminium parts to corrode quicker than normal.
But that would either be a cr@p quality coolant or a coolant not suitable for an engine with aluminium cylinder head. Since most modern cars have an alloy head then most anti-freezes are suitable. Just read the tub, it says what it is suitable for.
I can however see the logic of diluting with distilled water if you happen to live in a hard-water area.
Iirc Toyota Strongly recomend using their red coolant('longlife') in MR2's etc to help prolong the life of head gaskets & the like.
Quote below I nicked from Lexus forum:
In the archives mmarshall had the best advice because it's also the advice the Toyota engineers have given us: Here's what mmarshall wrote:
"Well, there's a reason why Toyota recommends their own coolant....and
it's not just money or profit-motivated. The red Toyota coolant that
comes in that big black jug....first of all, it cannot be mixed with any
other coolant without the potential for doing damage ...especially the
greenish-yellow stuff....unless you COMPETELY flush out all of previous
coolant. Second, the Toyota coolant is especially formulated for the
metal, rubber, and plastic alloys used in Toyota / Lexus radiators,
hoses, water pumps, heater cores, and engine blocks. It is designed with
the proper PH (acid / base) balance so it will not damage these parts
with normal change intervals.
I'm not saying that other coolants can't be safely used in some cases,
but my philosophy is: why take a chance?"
If you want to see what happens when Toyota owners use an auto parts store antifreeze go visit your local auto wrecking yards. A large percentage of those cars got there due to engine overheating and internal corrosion problems and busted head gaskets. All preventable problems if owners would just be willing to follow the car care advice of the Toyota engineers .
www.clublexus.com/forums/printthread.php?t=145755
>> Edited by tuttle on Monday 1st August 16:23
Quote below I nicked from Lexus forum:
In the archives mmarshall had the best advice because it's also the advice the Toyota engineers have given us: Here's what mmarshall wrote:
"Well, there's a reason why Toyota recommends their own coolant....and
it's not just money or profit-motivated. The red Toyota coolant that
comes in that big black jug....first of all, it cannot be mixed with any
other coolant without the potential for doing damage ...especially the
greenish-yellow stuff....unless you COMPETELY flush out all of previous
coolant. Second, the Toyota coolant is especially formulated for the
metal, rubber, and plastic alloys used in Toyota / Lexus radiators,
hoses, water pumps, heater cores, and engine blocks. It is designed with
the proper PH (acid / base) balance so it will not damage these parts
with normal change intervals.
I'm not saying that other coolants can't be safely used in some cases,
but my philosophy is: why take a chance?"
If you want to see what happens when Toyota owners use an auto parts store antifreeze go visit your local auto wrecking yards. A large percentage of those cars got there due to engine overheating and internal corrosion problems and busted head gaskets. All preventable problems if owners would just be willing to follow the car care advice of the Toyota engineers .
www.clublexus.com/forums/printthread.php?t=145755
>> Edited by tuttle on Monday 1st August 16:23
I thought this was a general concensus of opinion amongst Toyota owners clubs, that the Toyota coolant cannot be mixed with, or substituted for, other coolants - without causing corrosion to pipes and or gaskets.
Having researched this a little 2 or 3 ears ago when the coolant last needed topping up, I had people screaming at me to only top it up with the Toyota stuff and nothing else.
Does anybody successfully run a Toyota using any other product?
Having researched this a little 2 or 3 ears ago when the coolant last needed topping up, I had people screaming at me to only top it up with the Toyota stuff and nothing else.
Does anybody successfully run a Toyota using any other product?
groomi said:
I thought this was a general concensus of opinion amongst Toyota owners clubs, that the Toyota coolant cannot be mixed with, or substituted for, other coolants - without causing corrosion to pipes and or gaskets.
Having researched this a little 2 or 3 ears ago when the coolant last needed topping up, I had people screaming at me to only top it up with the Toyota stuff and nothing else.
Does anybody successfully run a Toyota using any other product?
I have two Toyotas currently and at least three previously. None have had ForLife. I honestly can't believe that Toyota use materials which are more prone to failure than any other car manufacturer. Why would they? Nor do I believe that a branded off-the-shelf anti-freeze hasn't been designed properly.
Turning the question round, has anyone got first hand experience of their engine failing due to using a quality after-market coolant?
Car manuf's will use differing grades/types of rubber & aluminium etc in an engine.Apply heat,water & acidity for long periods,yummy breeding ground for electrolysis & therefore corrosion. However, if you test your componants against varying levels of Ph etc, you ought to be able to find that a Some componants will fare better than others.Best solution(no pun intended)for your particular engine.
i think
i think
Tuttle: electrolysis? Why would an electric current be flowing through your coolant?
Anyway, Quote from my manual: "Use a good brand of ethylene-glycol or TOYOTA radiator conditioner or equivalent anticorrosive, mixed according to the makers directions'
IMO all this talk of Toyoya using special rubber or whatever that disintegrates when normal coolant touches it is a bit of hogwash.
>> Edited by aldi on Monday 1st August 18:57
Anyway, Quote from my manual: "Use a good brand of ethylene-glycol or TOYOTA radiator conditioner or equivalent anticorrosive, mixed according to the makers directions'
IMO all this talk of Toyoya using special rubber or whatever that disintegrates when normal coolant touches it is a bit of hogwash.
>> Edited by aldi on Monday 1st August 18:57
No you're right,stuff doesn't just disintegrate in a puff of smoke, it takes a minute or two
Unusually, I wasn't trying to be a pedantic git,was just trying to use chemistry to show how differing coolant solutions may effect engine componants.
Ever make a battery from a lemon at school?
The different metals the rad coolant passes thru works the same way & produces its own(tiny,admittedly) current.
Electrolysis occurrs when two different metals are in contact,either in or with an ionised or saline solution.The main effect is that it corrodes metal surfaces.Particles of the metals are then carried in the solution,hastening the effect.
You get this happening alot with boats/boat fittings.Esp if galvansed metals are in contact with stainless steel etc.
www.factmonster.com/ce6/sci/A0857941.html
>> Edited by tuttle on Monday 1st August 19:41
Unusually, I wasn't trying to be a pedantic git,was just trying to use chemistry to show how differing coolant solutions may effect engine componants.
aldi said:
Tuttle: electrolysis? Why would an electric current be flowing through your coolant?
Ever make a battery from a lemon at school?
The different metals the rad coolant passes thru works the same way & produces its own(tiny,admittedly) current.
Electrolysis occurrs when two different metals are in contact,either in or with an ionised or saline solution.The main effect is that it corrodes metal surfaces.Particles of the metals are then carried in the solution,hastening the effect.
You get this happening alot with boats/boat fittings.Esp if galvansed metals are in contact with stainless steel etc.
www.factmonster.com/ce6/sci/A0857941.html
>> Edited by tuttle on Monday 1st August 19:41
Well, you learn something every day. But I still don't beleive that Toyota would make a car that reacts badly to the same coolant that every other car takes. I can beleive though that in the owners handbook it says to top up with their 'special' pre-mixed coolant, as a profit making exersise.
groomi said:
It's not so much a question of deciding, more one of finding!
Interesting discussion, nonetheless.
So what are you going to do? I would:
(1) stick a hose pipe up any of the open pipes and let it run out elsewhere (good opportunity to flush out any cr@p in the system.
(2) put everything back together
(3) find the capacity of the system from the hand book and put half this quantity in as neat branded antifreeze.
(4) Top up with water and bleed
(5) Run engine with filler cap off / expansion tank cap off and as any air bubbles come out, just top up with water (keeping an eye on temp gauge just in case)
(6) After five minutes, the engine heat will cause coolant to start being expelled from the filler cap so close this and switch off engine and let it cool
(7) Top up levels again and then go for a short drive with a container of water just in case you need to top again
(8) For the first few days, keep an eye on level as the odd little air pocket may be expelled.
Up to you of course but i hope that helps.
Thanks for the response Jap-car.
I think your suggestion for flushing out the system is probably the best idea, however, despite the debate on these pages, I want to use the Toyota stuff which shouldn't be mixed with water. (Plus I've spent £30 on the stuff already
).
Don't know how to flush it out without using a hosepipe full of water... could one of those drill mounted pumps work to pump the Toyota stuff straight from the bottle? (I have about 2 litres more than I need).
I really think this thread is starting to prove that I'm not such a 'hands-on' person afterall.
>> Edited by groomi on Tuesday 2nd August 09:35
I think your suggestion for flushing out the system is probably the best idea, however, despite the debate on these pages, I want to use the Toyota stuff which shouldn't be mixed with water. (Plus I've spent £30 on the stuff already
). Don't know how to flush it out without using a hosepipe full of water... could one of those drill mounted pumps work to pump the Toyota stuff straight from the bottle? (I have about 2 litres more than I need).
I really think this thread is starting to prove that I'm not such a 'hands-on' person afterall.
>> Edited by groomi on Tuesday 2nd August 09:35
I don't know how you could flush without water unless you buy a lot more ForLife. If I suspected the cooling system was quite dirty, I would fill the system with pure water, add a bottle of coolant flush (eg. Holts), follow the insructions on the bottle and drain again.
However, isn't your system pristine due to being filled with ForLife ie you may not need to flush...
Edited to say: why did your original rad fail? Was it due to corrosion or fatigue fracture?
>> Edited by jap-car on Tuesday 2nd August 11:09
However, isn't your system pristine due to being filled with ForLife
ie you may not need to flush... Edited to say: why did your original rad fail? Was it due to corrosion or fatigue fracture?
>> Edited by jap-car on Tuesday 2nd August 11:09
jap-car said:
I don't know how you could flush without water unless you buy a lot more ForLife. If I suspected the cooling system was quite dirty, I would fill the system with pure water, add a bottle of coolant flush (eg. Holts), follow the insructions on the bottle and drain again.
I'd prob do this too.Flush as best you can with water,drain & refil.
I'm sure you'l allready have this info, but if I remember right you open all the bleed points (front rad, top of heater circuit behind spare wheel, pressure cap in engine bay), turn the heater on full and fill very slowly untill it comes out of each in turn, closing them off again in turn. Then do the driving round and topping up thing.
OK, todays update of this ongoing saga...
New radiator is now i with new hoses etc. (see pic)
So, slowly filled up with coolant, carefully trying not o get any air locks, then took it for a test drive. OK to start with, then temperature shot up and fans didn't come on. Got back home and spent ages trying to identify the problem.
Eventually managed to discover that coolant is not circulating aroud the system due to a siezed thermostat - which has probably been the route of the problem all along.
Well, it should be a simple job to replace the thermostat - but ofcourse, life is never simple...
There are two bolts holding it in place. One on the top which is fine, the other underneath which is difficult to get to and it has been rounded off at some point.
Why do I get the feeling that this could take some time.
New radiator is now i with new hoses etc. (see pic)
So, slowly filled up with coolant, carefully trying not o get any air locks, then took it for a test drive. OK to start with, then temperature shot up and fans didn't come on. Got back home and spent ages trying to identify the problem.
Eventually managed to discover that coolant is not circulating aroud the system due to a siezed thermostat - which has probably been the route of the problem all along.
Well, it should be a simple job to replace the thermostat - but ofcourse, life is never simple...
There are two bolts holding it in place. One on the top which is fine, the other underneath which is difficult to get to and it has been rounded off at some point.
Why do I get the feeling that this could take some time.
Managed to replace the thermostat eventually. In order to get to the chewed nut with a spanner rather than socket, I had to remove the manifold heat shield and the oil filter. Naturally, all the bolts were rusted on.
Anyway, that's all done now. I just have to get a new oil filter in the morning (Please Halfrauds, don't let me down again). Then it should be all systems go...
:fingerscrossedsmilie:
Anyway, that's all done now. I just have to get a new oil filter in the morning (Please Halfrauds, don't let me down again). Then it should be all systems go...
:fingerscrossedsmilie:
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