RE: Mazda to beef up the MX-5?
Discussion
Can't seem to find anything relating to this on Autocar's site, can anyone link the source? I'm extremely interested because I was about to buy a new Miata next week, but I was planning on eventually shoehorning a crate MZR (2.3T) from Mazda into it.
Seems like hearsay as far as I can tell, and the fact that Autocar doesn't seem to have actually said anything makes me wonder even more. Please help! I'm on the edge of my seat, with a lot of money in the balance.
Seems like hearsay as far as I can tell, and the fact that Autocar doesn't seem to have actually said anything makes me wonder even more. Please help! I'm on the edge of my seat, with a lot of money in the balance.
Me too - Make it and I'll buy one even with its amphibious looks (I agree!).
I turboed my M1 1.8 MX-5 to 250hp (230lbft) and ran it that way for four years with no problems - car is still going strong in the hands of someone else now.
MX-5s are light - the stealth aspect of a high-boost MX-5 is quite something. I've since had a B5 model Audi RS4 and now a 911 (993) - the '5 had quicker acceleration than either - really really quick - sub 5 seconds to 60 and real quick in-gear times. Top speed and high speed acceleration and it would lose out of course against such cars but it was a lot of fun...A lot of the fun was that it's "just an MX-5"...;-)
I am presently considering the new Mark 3 model and was planning to turbo that just as soon as the usual suspect vendors figure out the kits and ECUs but a factory model would be an even better starting point - 300hp with tweaks would be fun!
I can't find Autocar site link but it's in todays printed issue...
I turboed my M1 1.8 MX-5 to 250hp (230lbft) and ran it that way for four years with no problems - car is still going strong in the hands of someone else now.
MX-5s are light - the stealth aspect of a high-boost MX-5 is quite something. I've since had a B5 model Audi RS4 and now a 911 (993) - the '5 had quicker acceleration than either - really really quick - sub 5 seconds to 60 and real quick in-gear times. Top speed and high speed acceleration and it would lose out of course against such cars but it was a lot of fun...A lot of the fun was that it's "just an MX-5"...;-)
I am presently considering the new Mark 3 model and was planning to turbo that just as soon as the usual suspect vendors figure out the kits and ECUs but a factory model would be an even better starting point - 300hp with tweaks would be fun!
I can't find Autocar site link but it's in todays printed issue...
No they are real, have seen one with my own eyes an' all that.
www.mx5-mazda.co.uk/BBR%20Turbo%20spec%20edition.htm
about half way down the page here:
www.cryton.demon.co.uk/mx5/miata.html
www.mx5-mazda.co.uk/BBR%20Turbo%20spec%20edition.htm
about half way down the page here:
www.cryton.demon.co.uk/mx5/miata.html
The MX5 BBR wasn't "from the factory" as such. Basically it was an aftermarket kit that Mazda UK covered with their warrenty due to the fact it was a fairly low boost system.
Mazda Australia did a similar system for the Mk 2.
The only true from the factory turbocharged 5 was the mazdaspeed miata: (www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=7868) which put out fairly lame 178hp.
Personally I hope that Mazda don't bother playing with the big boys and leave the fun stuff to the likes of FM/BRP/JR who KNOW how to make a MX5 a boxster eater.
Just out of interest would any of you buy a MX5 over a S2000 if they had similar power and an identical price tag?
edited due to hungover spelling
>> Edited by benjc on Thursday 11th May 10:56
Mazda Australia did a similar system for the Mk 2.
The only true from the factory turbocharged 5 was the mazdaspeed miata: (www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=7868) which put out fairly lame 178hp.
Personally I hope that Mazda don't bother playing with the big boys and leave the fun stuff to the likes of FM/BRP/JR who KNOW how to make a MX5 a boxster eater.
Just out of interest would any of you buy a MX5 over a S2000 if they had similar power and an identical price tag?
edited due to hungover spelling
>> Edited by benjc on Thursday 11th May 10:56
tuttle said:
No they are real, have seen one with my own eyes an' all that.
www.mx5-mazda.co.uk/BBR%20Turbo%20spec%20edition.htm
about half way down the page here:
www.cryton.demon.co.uk/mx5/miata.html
Definitely real my sister has one
Hi BenJC, didn't realise you'd gone the Mr2 route mate, you enjoying it as much as the 5?
>> Edited by dewey on Thursday 11th May 10:06
Yes I know the Bullet. There was a nat atmo version with about 300hp, and the the supercharged version. They sort of disappeared off the radar after their release though. There were two turbo versions of the previous gen MX5. There was the factory SE, which was a thoroughly engineered car, new brakes, suspension and all. There was also the non-official SP. That was made in limited numbers by Mazda Australia. It had more power than the SE, but was pretty much a one trick pony. Lots of turbo oomph, but that was it. No new brakes, retuned suspension, nothing. Just the motor. As for amphibious? 
I haven't laughed that hard in a while, it looks uncannily like the Gibbs Aquada.
I haven't laughed that hard in a while, it looks uncannily like the Gibbs Aquada.
dewey said:
Hi BenJC, didn't realise you'd gone the Mr2 route mate, you enjoying it as much as the 5?
Hiya Si,
I sold the 5 because I have a crocked left arm, so that close ratio gearbox was killing me on my sixty mile commute! Trust me I am gutted, nothing seems as quick as the turbocharged roller skate!
The Mr2 is a great weekend drive for me, and I love it as standard, just the right ride and power for a fun day out! But if I am honest I hanker for the tubby howl!
Phase 1 was 150 bhp
Phase 2 was 230 bhp! from a 1.6L !!!!
Phase 2 was 230 bhp! from a 1.6L !!!!
tuttle said:
Have thought for a while that they need to produce one a bit like that from the factory...
They do, or did anyway. The BBR MX5 official turbo kit, not quite to 250bhp though, 150 iirc but pretty darn respectable.
Spec went something like this....
Garrett T25 Turbocharger with integral waste gate control & water cooling
Air to Air Intercooler to matching finish of std engine
Auxiliary ECU Engine Management Computer
Boost phase fuel injection control plus Ign. Timing with 3 dimensional mapping
Super/Unleaded fuel switchover
Competition hoses
High Temperature cast alloy exhaust manifold / stainless shield
Stainless steel exhaust down pipe
optional Limited slip diff / Alloy wheels / Dunlop D40 M2 tyres
optional up rated suspension dampers and Anti-roll bars
BBR decals
The kit
Goes in like this!....
>> Edited by tuttle on Wednesday 10th May 19:30
From a space point of view the Mazda 2.3l engine should fit, the Mazda engine is a Duratech (technically the Duratech is a Mazda engine). As far as I can tell the 2.3 litre engine and the 2.0l engine share the same bore the 2.3 simply has a longer stroke, the externl dimension should be identical.
The only space issue could I suppose be fitting in the aciliaries related to the turbocharger and preventing the thing from overheating. If that is the case they could go for fitting the 2.3l engine NA which in a high state of tune should quite easily make 200bhp (see Duratech in Caterham CSR) and meet emissions regs.
200bhp would make the MX-5 comparible in performance with the Boxster, and Mazda would be able to sell it at a considerable profit margin andgreatly undercut the Boxter at the same time.
The only space issue could I suppose be fitting in the aciliaries related to the turbocharger and preventing the thing from overheating. If that is the case they could go for fitting the 2.3l engine NA which in a high state of tune should quite easily make 200bhp (see Duratech in Caterham CSR) and meet emissions regs.
200bhp would make the MX-5 comparible in performance with the Boxster, and Mazda would be able to sell it at a considerable profit margin andgreatly undercut the Boxter at the same time.
their goes your 3 year warantee sir and all of that........ so you will get a bigger CC unit de -tuned so the tuning boys can get even more out of it 
............ There was actually a stage 2 and stage 3 BBR Turbo but from BBR not from Mazda - essentially upgrades offered over the Mazda BBR.
Installation decisions like placing the intercooler behind the radiator and power figures for the higher stages being somewhat optimistic leaves me pretty cold on the BBRs, regardless of what stage they're at...
Installation decisions like placing the intercooler behind the radiator and power figures for the higher stages being somewhat optimistic leaves me pretty cold on the BBRs, regardless of what stage they're at...
benjc said:
Eh? Never heard of the Phase 2 BBR.
To get 230hp out of the 1.6BP engine requires a programmable ECU, and there is no way MCL would warranty a car making that sort of power level.
Ben, the guy I bought my wifes BBR (now sold to my sister) had the BBR3 stage 3 - producing 230 bhp - pretty basic ecu though, so it used to suffer lean tip in ie not as smooth as an FM 5.
Also someone in the states already fitted an S2000 in an 5 and it goes very nicely, mind you over they fit FE3's from 200Sx too.
dewey said:
Eh? Never heard of the Phase 2 BBR.
To get 230hp out of the 1.6BP engine requires a programmable ECU, and there is no way MCL would warranty a car making that sort of power level.
Ben, the guy I bought my wifes BBR (now sold to my sister) had the BBR3 stage 3 - producing 230 bhp - pretty basic ecu though, so it used to suffer lean tip in ie not as smooth as an FM 5.
Also someone in the states already fitted an S2000 in an 5 and it goes very nicely, mind you over they fit FE3's from 200Sx too.
Interesting, did the BBR3 go for 440cc injectors and a fmic? To get 230 out of my old FM2 1.6 I was pushing the envelope without a duel feed fuel rail. The duty cycle on the injectors was at 95% and I was pushing about 14.5psi on a GT28, so gawd knows what a 1.6 with GT25 would have to do to hit to make 230!
There have been a lot of V8 Miatas in the US - the LS1 is relatively new, someone on miata.net has put an LS6 in one (6 liters). The most common V8 swap was with the 5.0L used in the Ford Mustangs. Interestingly enough, it didn't raise the weight or hamper the 50:50 weight distribution all that much, what with the different transmission and differential needed.
Turboing and supercharging the 1.6L and the 1.8L was easy, and you can get around 250 wheel HP on stock internals, with a $5000 (£ 2115?) turbo kit or lesser with cheaper kits or homemade ones. These engines were turbocharged stock, so they're easy to boost.
Bottom line, the MX-5 isn't competing with any TVRs, but its a good handling little car that doesn't deserve the hairdresser's car title.
Turboing and supercharging the 1.6L and the 1.8L was easy, and you can get around 250 wheel HP on stock internals, with a $5000 (£ 2115?) turbo kit or lesser with cheaper kits or homemade ones. These engines were turbocharged stock, so they're easy to boost.
Bottom line, the MX-5 isn't competing with any TVRs, but its a good handling little car that doesn't deserve the hairdresser's car title.
Well since Mazdaspeed have consistently turboed their cars (MS Protege, MS Miata/MX-5, MS 6, and the upcoming MS 3) I think its safe to say that it'll be a 2.0L or 2.3L turbo. Would be nice if its the 2.3L, but I think its safe to say that Mazda don't want the Miata running away from its objective - light sports car first, tire burner second. Remember the bit about the designers not wanting it to have more grip than the outgoing model?
My guess is under 250hp.
Regarding the roof, it is rumoured to be a folding hardtop made of composite material. Only available on the Touring version, the Sport and stripped versions get the softtop (best design on the market!).
I'd give up my NA (1st gen) in a heartbeat for a more comfortable version of this car.
>> Edited by K G on Monday 15th May 17:28
My guess is under 250hp.
Regarding the roof, it is rumoured to be a folding hardtop made of composite material. Only available on the Touring version, the Sport and stripped versions get the softtop (best design on the market!).
I'd give up my NA (1st gen) in a heartbeat for a more comfortable version of this car.
>> Edited by K G on Monday 15th May 17:28
K G wrote...
Well since Mazdaspeed have consistently turboed their cars (MS Protege, MS Miata/MX-5, MS 6, and the upcoming MS 3) I think its safe to say that it'll be a 2.0L or 2.3L turbo. Would be nice if its the 2.3L, but I think its safe to say that Mazda don't want the Miata running away from its objective - light sports car first, tire burner second. Remember the bit about the designers not wanting it to have more grip than the outgoing model?
My guess is under 250hp.
I would agree - under 250hp.
Would it not be a possibilty that the RX8 rotary - 231hp - could be used? Certainly not a problem size and weight wise?
I was the buyer of Benjc's FM2 Mx5, and am the owner of a standard Mx5 and can vouch for the fact that the car deserves that sort of power.
Hi Ben, As for the question S2000 or Mx5 - A tough call to have to make, but I have to say the Mx5. Mainly due to the fact that anyone next to you at the light immediatly thinks 'hairdresser' - until he's left 200 yards behind in a second
Well since Mazdaspeed have consistently turboed their cars (MS Protege, MS Miata/MX-5, MS 6, and the upcoming MS 3) I think its safe to say that it'll be a 2.0L or 2.3L turbo. Would be nice if its the 2.3L, but I think its safe to say that Mazda don't want the Miata running away from its objective - light sports car first, tire burner second. Remember the bit about the designers not wanting it to have more grip than the outgoing model?
My guess is under 250hp.
I would agree - under 250hp.
Would it not be a possibilty that the RX8 rotary - 231hp - could be used? Certainly not a problem size and weight wise?
I was the buyer of Benjc's FM2 Mx5, and am the owner of a standard Mx5 and can vouch for the fact that the car deserves that sort of power.
Hi Ben, As for the question S2000 or Mx5 - A tough call to have to make, but I have to say the Mx5. Mainly due to the fact that anyone next to you at the light immediatly thinks 'hairdresser' - until he's left 200 yards behind in a second
Kinda like the look of this:
www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=55887918&key=151580
stock looking supercharged 1.6, 150rwhp (should be upgradeable to a bit more??)with a few other good bits as well. would be rather tempting if i had the spare $$ and wasn't a student.
www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=55887918&key=151580
stock looking supercharged 1.6, 150rwhp (should be upgradeable to a bit more??)with a few other good bits as well. would be rather tempting if i had the spare $$ and wasn't a student.
Having had a succession of X-1/9s, MX-5s and an S2000, I've always been amused by "Haidressers' car." Especially since most haidressers neither own nor like them. They generally find the Suzuki Vitara far more sporty!
I think it must date back to the 'sixties & the Triumph Shitfire.
Anyway, it was the thought of ruining the handling/throttle response that stopped me turbocharging the X-1/9s and MX-5s.
I sincerely hope Honda stick the the NA route, which is appropriate to a roadster.
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