Litchfield Type -25.
Discussion
I love my Jap metal.
Mate of mine has massively tweeked P1 (2.65 litre bottom end plus GT35 tubby) and its going to be crazy when finished, so I can understand the appeal of the 450hp of the 25.
Litchfield have done what few aftermarket tuners have ever done and engineered a proper engine/chassis/body package with warranty and support.
But:
You would have to deliver a series of hefty head blows before I could ever consider £40k in the direction of an Impreza anywhere near rational/possible.
IMHO, a bath will be taken upon resale and if the image bothered me enough that I wanted the toned down bodywork version, it'd be a non-starter anyway.
Seriously minted persons everyday machine to keep the miles off the Zonda, absolutely, single car at that price point, absolutely not. Performance is there but the sense of occasion and aesthetics just arent.
Mate of mine has massively tweeked P1 (2.65 litre bottom end plus GT35 tubby) and its going to be crazy when finished, so I can understand the appeal of the 450hp of the 25.
Litchfield have done what few aftermarket tuners have ever done and engineered a proper engine/chassis/body package with warranty and support.
But:
You would have to deliver a series of hefty head blows before I could ever consider £40k in the direction of an Impreza anywhere near rational/possible.
IMHO, a bath will be taken upon resale and if the image bothered me enough that I wanted the toned down bodywork version, it'd be a non-starter anyway.
Seriously minted persons everyday machine to keep the miles off the Zonda, absolutely, single car at that price point, absolutely not. Performance is there but the sense of occasion and aesthetics just arent.
This isn't about what it looks like because from the outside it could be taken as a normal STi, but it's whats hidden below the skin that really turns me on and i suppose others too that are considering buying a Litchfield.
If you take a normal STi and do the things that litchfield have done, to the same specs and quality, it's very probably going to cost you about the same and let's not forget that you're also buying the expertise of Litchfield & Cosworth, not to mention other ancilliary contributors.
I know of plenty of people that mod Scoobies and other cars and spend a hilarious amount of money over time, and quite often more than this car costs to buy, and don't even get anywhere near the quality and spec of the Litchfield. It's horses for courses really.
When i buy a Litchfield it will be my daily driver because ultimately that's what it's there for, to be used and enjoyed....not admired like some trophy. I'll leave that to the owners of weekend cars like Lambo's, Zonda's and dare i say it....Nobles!!
If you take a normal STi and do the things that litchfield have done, to the same specs and quality, it's very probably going to cost you about the same and let's not forget that you're also buying the expertise of Litchfield & Cosworth, not to mention other ancilliary contributors.
I know of plenty of people that mod Scoobies and other cars and spend a hilarious amount of money over time, and quite often more than this car costs to buy, and don't even get anywhere near the quality and spec of the Litchfield. It's horses for courses really.
When i buy a Litchfield it will be my daily driver because ultimately that's what it's there for, to be used and enjoyed....not admired like some trophy. I'll leave that to the owners of weekend cars like Lambo's, Zonda's and dare i say it....Nobles!!
Ok, so I'm biased. I won't hide the P1 lurking in my profile.
However I absolutely do get the point of spending £45k on an Impreza, because it's not the Impreza you're really buying. You're buying performance, simple as that. If you look at it this way, it's an astounding bargain.
Just look at the times of the Bedford lap. Less than 1 second behind an Enzo - and anyone is quibbling over £45k? Are you insane?
The car is everyday usable, peaceful as a pussycat if driven so and then you get enough performance to make it come down to the driver when it comes to humbling supercars.
I understand the lure of the Noble - It *is* more of an occaision, but could you live without that performance knowing that you could have had it? Personally no. Another personal perspective is that I perfer the 2 door styling of the P1 which has partially driven my decision not to replace it. But SJC, go for it and simply overtake those who didn't get it
However I absolutely do get the point of spending £45k on an Impreza, because it's not the Impreza you're really buying. You're buying performance, simple as that. If you look at it this way, it's an astounding bargain.
Just look at the times of the Bedford lap. Less than 1 second behind an Enzo - and anyone is quibbling over £45k? Are you insane?
The car is everyday usable, peaceful as a pussycat if driven so and then you get enough performance to make it come down to the driver when it comes to humbling supercars.
I understand the lure of the Noble - It *is* more of an occaision, but could you live without that performance knowing that you could have had it? Personally no. Another personal perspective is that I perfer the 2 door styling of the P1 which has partially driven my decision not to replace it. But SJC, go for it and simply overtake those who didn't get it
sjc said:
Cyber face you're on my wavelength! I can't bring myself to spend £40K on one,middle30's would be ideal, but the Cosworth Type -25 has only been out months so there are no secondhand ones around.They do it in Spec C and A-line ( my favourite)guise both have the 2.5. A standard jdm spec C has the 2 litre. At £40K it's a bit too close to 1 year old RS4 money.Still dithering!
I'd forget the RS4 even though you are dithering about it, and it crosses over price-wise... it's in nowhere near the same performance league as the Type-25 or the Noble. I guess if the badge was the only important factor then it would be the right answer, but if you've owned a Noble (which nobody knew about until the M12) then who cares? The RS4 may impress golf-club types but it wouldn't see which way the Type-25 went either on track or on a B road. I respect it, but it's damn expensive for an Audi with a nice engine in it, IMO.
Besides, the Type-25 is known as being pretty damn special by proper petrolheads - lots of people ignored the one I saw in Verbier but there was I, clumping around it in ski boots trying to get a good look
It will certainly tick the 'respect from cognoscenti' box if that's important to you. Is the previous iteration of the Type-25 that much inferior to the new one? Litchfield have been making them for a few years.
It wouldn't be the Audi badge that made me get the RS4, I've driven one and it's a bloody
great car, nearly got one last year but at the time it was a bit small for what I needed, although thats changed now.
Regarding the old model Type-25, still very good but it felt a bit more like a tuned Impreza than I'd like.I think it's the Cosworth engine that gives the new car its real character and made it feel sufficently different from other Scoobies to A- nearly justify its price and, B-realy make me think about it!
great car, nearly got one last year but at the time it was a bit small for what I needed, although thats changed now.
Regarding the old model Type-25, still very good but it felt a bit more like a tuned Impreza than I'd like.I think it's the Cosworth engine that gives the new car its real character and made it feel sufficently different from other Scoobies to A- nearly justify its price and, B-realy make me think about it!
sjc said:
It wouldn't be the Audi badge that made me get the RS4, I've driven one and it's a bloody
great car, nearly got one last year but at the time it was a bit small for what I needed, although thats changed now.
Regarding the old model Type-25, still very good but it felt a bit more like a tuned Impreza than I'd like.I think it's the Cosworth engine that gives the new car its real character and made it feel sufficently different from other Scoobies to A- nearly justify its price and, B-realy make me think about it!
great car, nearly got one last year but at the time it was a bit small for what I needed, although thats changed now.
Regarding the old model Type-25, still very good but it felt a bit more like a tuned Impreza than I'd like.I think it's the Cosworth engine that gives the new car its real character and made it feel sufficently different from other Scoobies to A- nearly justify its price and, B-realy make me think about it!
andrew,
are you looking to do track days in your next car?
tif
peterpeter said:
sjc said:
It wouldn't be the Audi badge that made me get the RS4, I've driven one and it's a bloody
great car, nearly got one last year but at the time it was a bit small for what I needed, although thats changed now.
Regarding the old model Type-25, still very good but it felt a bit more like a tuned Impreza than I'd like.I think it's the Cosworth engine that gives the new car its real character and made it feel sufficently different from other Scoobies to A- nearly justify its price and, B-realy make me think about it!
great car, nearly got one last year but at the time it was a bit small for what I needed, although thats changed now.
Regarding the old model Type-25, still very good but it felt a bit more like a tuned Impreza than I'd like.I think it's the Cosworth engine that gives the new car its real character and made it feel sufficently different from other Scoobies to A- nearly justify its price and, B-realy make me think about it!
andrew,
are you looking to do track days in your next car?
tif
Do you think I should do them before I get my teeth done then?
sjc said:
peterpeter said:
sjc said:
It wouldn't be the Audi badge that made me get the RS4, I've driven one and it's a bloody
great car, nearly got one last year but at the time it was a bit small for what I needed, although thats changed now.
Regarding the old model Type-25, still very good but it felt a bit more like a tuned Impreza than I'd like.I think it's the Cosworth engine that gives the new car its real character and made it feel sufficently different from other Scoobies to A- nearly justify its price and, B-realy make me think about it!
great car, nearly got one last year but at the time it was a bit small for what I needed, although thats changed now.
Regarding the old model Type-25, still very good but it felt a bit more like a tuned Impreza than I'd like.I think it's the Cosworth engine that gives the new car its real character and made it feel sufficently different from other Scoobies to A- nearly justify its price and, B-realy make me think about it!
andrew,
are you looking to do track days in your next car?
tif
Do you think I should do them before I get my teeth done then?
Ive been doing track days for years and my teeth are still intact!
im only asking because for me that is always the deciding factor.
Thats why Ill never own a merc/non-csl type Beemer or even the RS audis.
I think that if this is going to be primarily a road car, Id go for the RS4 as
quality, comfort and road manners have got to be considerations.
But if you do the odd track day, it suddenly changes all your priorities.
I only do about 4 days a year in my subaru but about 8 in my gt3. And just for
that reason Im looking at a Litchfield in a year or so.
Mad I know.
Thats why Ill never own a merc/non-csl type Beemer or even the RS audis.
I think that if this is going to be primarily a road car, Id go for the RS4 as
quality, comfort and road manners have got to be considerations.
But if you do the odd track day, it suddenly changes all your priorities.
I only do about 4 days a year in my subaru but about 8 in my gt3. And just for
that reason Im looking at a Litchfield in a year or so.
Mad I know.
dave_sw1 said:
one thing that isn't mentioned on the litcho web page is warranty, is there one, and if so is it only valid at that one garage? long way to go back if a lecy window got stuck etc?
i called them about this and Im sure you definately get a year.
I asked about extending it, but the salesman was rather evasive (to be fair, Im not sure he really knew) saying that the price changes each year.
smifffy said:
I understand the lure of the Noble - It *is* more of an occaision, but could you live without that performance knowing that you could have had it?
Comparing the performance stats I've seen between the Type 25 and the Noble there isn't much in it, 0-60 in mid 3s (I've read 3.5 and 3.7 quoted for both), 0-100 in about 8, and some decent top end.
I imagine despite the 4wd traction an M400 may still have the edge on track too - where the T-25 wins is practicality and usability in bad conditions rather than outright performance.
ETA: In a 5th Gear test the M400 was 2.5sec quicker around Anglesey than an Evo FQ400, not sure how the Evo compares to the T-25 for laptimes though.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 16th February 21:04
GravelBen said:
scoobiewrx said:
Litchfield will kick Evo's RRRS!!! 
pretty much what I thought, still be interesting to see it up against the Noble though 
(speaking as a Subaru fan who also like Nobles
)In all honesty i don't think T-25 is going to be very far away from the Noble. I don't think it will be quite as quick but i am confident it may only be a second or so away, not 2.5s. Perhaps someone will go to Anglesey and give it a go with the T-25.
If they don't then maybe i will when i get one!!
The Brembo setup on STi's is very good for up to 350bhp, and you get little to no brake fade, however Litchfield recommend you opt for the Porsche big brake kit as that ensures your retardation is 110% no matter what bearing in mind the extra 139bhp over a standard STi. If you read the whole Litchfield site you will see the extent to which these cars are taken apart and reworked with a virtually new engine heavily fettled by Cosworth and some of the best adjustable suspension and chassis setup money can buy.
Make no mistake....calling this a Scooby is far from what it really is and it should be classed a something completely different altogether. 0-60 3.7s and 175mph standard (with optional higher final drive for more top end)
, coupled with a driving experience that you might get from a fully race prepped race only STi, is a bit different from a run of the mill STi. Don't forget...the Type25 is also an everyday go to the shops hack, as well as an ultimate track day toy all in one, that's quicker than most of the supercar exotica on the market today. And all for £40K - £45K...Behave!!
Beat that one my son!!
Make no mistake....calling this a Scooby is far from what it really is and it should be classed a something completely different altogether. 0-60 3.7s and 175mph standard (with optional higher final drive for more top end)
, coupled with a driving experience that you might get from a fully race prepped race only STi, is a bit different from a run of the mill STi. Don't forget...the Type25 is also an everyday go to the shops hack, as well as an ultimate track day toy all in one, that's quicker than most of the supercar exotica on the market today. And all for £40K - £45K...Behave!! Beat that one my son!!
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Tuesday 27th February 16:18
sjc said:
Beemer-5 said:
Especially as the brake discs and pads are stock STi stuff it seems.
I believe they have braided hoses and upgraded fluid though.
I have braided brake hoses, uprated DOT 5.1 fluid and Uprated discs/pads. It makes a huge difference over the standard items and all i drive is a WRX Sportwagon. Mine weighs a bit more than an STi, so slowing it down quickly before the upgrade, from 100mph, was interesting to say the least. Now it's absolutely brilliant and fade-free and gives me a shedload more confidence when very late braking.
Gassing Station | Japanese Chat | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff