RE: Acura Claim Uber Premium Status
Discussion
alanc5 said:
There's some intangible about a premium brand that you can't simply acquire. An NSX, although nice, pails in comparison to any Ferrari. A Lexus is just another Toyota, a nice one granted, but it will never have the breeding of a Mercedes.
It's very hard to explain isn't it? Lamborghini might have been bought out, but the name brings with it years of excitement, you think of the classics, the rivalry between them and Ferrari, the Countach in Cannonball Run...it's stuff you can't just make up by building something and selling it at a high price.
Another good example is the Koenigsegg and that american car, Saleen? They are good cars but I would choose a Ferrari over them every time, just for the sense of occasion, history...and all of those other difficult to express emotions a Ferrari makes you feel.
You are quite right, with the exception that it IS tangible. That is where I come in for Manufacturers (well - not just me, brand folk) - the intangible 'thing' is the emotional connection. Most people can imagine what a summer break in Tuscany would be like, even if they have never been there. It is a strong emotional connection that binds you. The brand is like the reputation of a person.It's very hard to explain isn't it? Lamborghini might have been bought out, but the name brings with it years of excitement, you think of the classics, the rivalry between them and Ferrari, the Countach in Cannonball Run...it's stuff you can't just make up by building something and selling it at a high price.
Another good example is the Koenigsegg and that american car, Saleen? They are good cars but I would choose a Ferrari over them every time, just for the sense of occasion, history...and all of those other difficult to express emotions a Ferrari makes you feel.
The fact is, any company with enough resource and money can make a car prettier and faster and cheaper than Ferrari. But they cannot BE Ferrari. This is also why I left Toyota/Lexus for BMW (having worked at Jaguar). It is so much more than what you do - it is who you are. The Japanese companies do not get this for some reason - possibly cultural. Merit alone does not bear a love affair.
Hence I do feel they will get there. Technology is becoming key, and they are in place to capitalise on this. Soon, nobody can Be Acura or Lexus with their own ESP's (Emotional Selling Point) rather than Unique Selling Point. Some of the stuff I had seen at Lexus, frankly was amazing, and thankfully, not chasing Europeans.
Japanese car companies are only now beginning to embrace the 'Japanese-ness' that we like.
brandguru said:
alanc5 said:
There's some intangible about a premium brand that you can't simply acquire. An NSX, although nice, pails in comparison to any Ferrari. A Lexus is just another Toyota, a nice one granted, but it will never have the breeding of a Mercedes.
It's very hard to explain isn't it? Lamborghini might have been bought out, but the name brings with it years of excitement, you think of the classics, the rivalry between them and Ferrari, the Countach in Cannonball Run...it's stuff you can't just make up by building something and selling it at a high price.
Another good example is the Koenigsegg and that american car, Saleen? They are good cars but I would choose a Ferrari over them every time, just for the sense of occasion, history...and all of those other difficult to express emotions a Ferrari makes you feel.
You are quite right, with the exception that it IS tangible. That is where I come in for Manufacturers (well - not just me, brand folk) - the intangible 'thing' is the emotional connection. Most people can imagine what a summer break in Tuscany would be like, even if they have never been there. It is a strong emotional connection that binds you. The brand is like the reputation of a person.It's very hard to explain isn't it? Lamborghini might have been bought out, but the name brings with it years of excitement, you think of the classics, the rivalry between them and Ferrari, the Countach in Cannonball Run...it's stuff you can't just make up by building something and selling it at a high price.
Another good example is the Koenigsegg and that american car, Saleen? They are good cars but I would choose a Ferrari over them every time, just for the sense of occasion, history...and all of those other difficult to express emotions a Ferrari makes you feel.
The fact is, any company with enough resource and money can make a car prettier and faster and cheaper than Ferrari. But they cannot BE Ferrari. This is also why I left Toyota/Lexus for BMW (having worked at Jaguar). It is so much more than what you do - it is who you are. The Japanese companies do not get this for some reason - possibly cultural. Merit alone does not bear a love affair.
Hence I do feel they will get there. Technology is becoming key, and they are in place to capitalise on this. Soon, nobody can Be Acura or Lexus with their own ESP's (Emotional Selling Point) rather than Unique Selling Point. Some of the stuff I had seen at Lexus, frankly was amazing, and thankfully, not chasing Europeans.
Japanese car companies are only now beginning to embrace the 'Japanese-ness' that we like.
If they can translate innovative design and meticulous attention to detail into a desirable brand then they might just have a chance. I'm thinking of Japanese brands in other sectors such as cosmetics, fashion and even electronics. And there's nothing I covet more at home than my Global kitchen knives...
Japan and more recently China are some of the most important markets for ultra-premium European brands; time will tell whether they can create a Japanese automotive brand with the right cache to succeed in Europe.
brandguru said:
alanc5 said:
There's some intangible about a premium brand that you can't simply acquire. An NSX, although nice, pails in comparison to any Ferrari. A Lexus is just another Toyota, a nice one granted, but it will never have the breeding of a Mercedes.
It's very hard to explain isn't it? Lamborghini might have been bought out, but the name brings with it years of excitement, you think of the classics, the rivalry between them and Ferrari, the Countach in Cannonball Run...it's stuff you can't just make up by building something and selling it at a high price.
Another good example is the Koenigsegg and that american car, Saleen? They are good cars but I would choose a Ferrari over them every time, just for the sense of occasion, history...and all of those other difficult to express emotions a Ferrari makes you feel.
You are quite right, with the exception that it IS tangible. That is where I come in for Manufacturers (well - not just me, brand folk) - the intangible 'thing' is the emotional connection. Most people can imagine what a summer break in Tuscany would be like, even if they have never been there. It is a strong emotional connection that binds you. The brand is like the reputation of a person.It's very hard to explain isn't it? Lamborghini might have been bought out, but the name brings with it years of excitement, you think of the classics, the rivalry between them and Ferrari, the Countach in Cannonball Run...it's stuff you can't just make up by building something and selling it at a high price.
Another good example is the Koenigsegg and that american car, Saleen? They are good cars but I would choose a Ferrari over them every time, just for the sense of occasion, history...and all of those other difficult to express emotions a Ferrari makes you feel.
The fact is, any company with enough resource and money can make a car prettier and faster and cheaper than Ferrari. But they cannot BE Ferrari. This is also why I left Toyota/Lexus for BMW (having worked at Jaguar). It is so much more than what you do - it is who you are. The Japanese companies do not get this for some reason - possibly cultural. Merit alone does not bear a love affair.
Hence I do feel they will get there. Technology is becoming key, and they are in place to capitalise on this. Soon, nobody can Be Acura or Lexus with their own ESP's (Emotional Selling Point) rather than Unique Selling Point. Some of the stuff I had seen at Lexus, frankly was amazing, and thankfully, not chasing Europeans.
Japanese car companies are only now beginning to embrace the 'Japanese-ness' that we like.
The premium brands have a long heritage and great technology, a good image & strong residuals. Part of Honda's problem is that they could almost be a premium brand themselves in Europe, but their image is somewhat worse in teh US. Hence the need for Acura. Toyota & Nissan do not have that image, but the Lexus model has worked to well, Nissan are now following it with Infinity and with some success.
This leaves Honda at a crossroads; the old conservative Acura strategy is failing in the US so they need to change radically.
To make it clear, Bentley & Maybach are luxury brands, not premium ones; People know they have a dubious heritage and some dodgy technology, but buy them entirely out of right-brained emotional rationale. Money & good taste are sometimes mutually exclusive!
PS - If Honda wanted to be Maybach, surely they should buy those old LWB Rover 75s & get them pimped up & badged as Acura. It would cost them next to mothing & no-one could tell the difference!
Respectfully, I have to disagree with a lot of what I've read here. Granted, Honda has frequently shyed away from making the world-beating vehicles that they are capable of, because of corporate timidity (supposedly, the NSX was originally developed as a V8, and the test mules were supposedly devastating); however, this could change fairly quickly, with the right management. Look at the amazing job that they did in the USA, setting up the first 'transplant' factory in the country: they gave that job to Shoichiro Irimajiri, a man intimately connected with their racing programs - not a bean-counter.
I think that Honda could produce cars with the same sense of occasion and style as the best from Rolls and Bently (I'd put Aston in there, too), and I think that, with less than ten years of careful marketing, they will be able to convince enough people of their excellence, to equal their competitors sales - IF they put the right crew on the job.
Honda has the greatest racing tradition of any current manufacturer, and has far more of a 'winning tradition' than any other car or motorcycle company operating today. Like Ferrari, Honda has had racing in its blood from day one - unlike Ferrari, Honda didn't go through a decade-plus period of getting their asses handed to them; they've always been successful in competition. They don't accept defeat easily... Furthermore, Honda, like Porsche, is run by engineers, not money-men - this means that their upper management actually care about cars, unlike GM or Ford (or VAG, as far as I can tell...).
All I'm saying is, I wouldn't bet against 'em...
I think that Honda could produce cars with the same sense of occasion and style as the best from Rolls and Bently (I'd put Aston in there, too), and I think that, with less than ten years of careful marketing, they will be able to convince enough people of their excellence, to equal their competitors sales - IF they put the right crew on the job.
Honda has the greatest racing tradition of any current manufacturer, and has far more of a 'winning tradition' than any other car or motorcycle company operating today. Like Ferrari, Honda has had racing in its blood from day one - unlike Ferrari, Honda didn't go through a decade-plus period of getting their asses handed to them; they've always been successful in competition. They don't accept defeat easily... Furthermore, Honda, like Porsche, is run by engineers, not money-men - this means that their upper management actually care about cars, unlike GM or Ford (or VAG, as far as I can tell...).
All I'm saying is, I wouldn't bet against 'em...
Stephen White said:
Respectfully, I have to disagree with a lot of what I've read here. Granted, Honda has frequently shyed away from making the world-beating vehicles that they are capable of, because of corporate timidity (supposedly, the NSX was originally developed as a V8, and the test mules were supposedly devastating); however, this could change fairly quickly, with the right management. Look at the amazing job that they did in the USA, setting up the first 'transplant' factory in the country: they gave that job to Shoichiro Irimajiri, a man intimately connected with their racing programs - not a bean-counter.
I think that Honda could produce cars with the same sense of occasion and style as the best from Rolls and Bently (I'd put Aston in there, too), and I think that, with less than ten years of careful marketing, they will be able to convince enough people of their excellence, to equal their competitors sales - IF they put the right crew on the job.
Honda has the greatest racing tradition of any current manufacturer, and has far more of a 'winning tradition' than any other car or motorcycle company operating today. Like Ferrari, Honda has had racing in its blood from day one - unlike Ferrari, Honda didn't go through a decade-plus period of getting their asses handed to them; they've always been successful in competition. They don't accept defeat easily... Furthermore, Honda, like Porsche, is run by engineers, not money-men - this means that their upper management actually care about cars, unlike GM or Ford (or VAG, as far as I can tell...).
All I'm saying is, I wouldn't bet against 'em...
I'd have to say I think you actually agree rather than disagree with current posts. What is suggested is that Honda will get there, in their own way. I am not sure how you feel Honda has the greatest racing tradition though?I think that Honda could produce cars with the same sense of occasion and style as the best from Rolls and Bently (I'd put Aston in there, too), and I think that, with less than ten years of careful marketing, they will be able to convince enough people of their excellence, to equal their competitors sales - IF they put the right crew on the job.
Honda has the greatest racing tradition of any current manufacturer, and has far more of a 'winning tradition' than any other car or motorcycle company operating today. Like Ferrari, Honda has had racing in its blood from day one - unlike Ferrari, Honda didn't go through a decade-plus period of getting their asses handed to them; they've always been successful in competition. They don't accept defeat easily... Furthermore, Honda, like Porsche, is run by engineers, not money-men - this means that their upper management actually care about cars, unlike GM or Ford (or VAG, as far as I can tell...).
All I'm saying is, I wouldn't bet against 'em...
Stephen White said:
Respectfully, I have to disagree with a lot of what I've read here. Granted, Honda has frequently shyed away from making the world-beating vehicles that they are capable of, because of corporate timidity (supposedly, the NSX was originally developed as a V8, and the test mules were supposedly devastating); however, this could change fairly quickly, with the right management. Look at the amazing job that they did in the USA, setting up the first 'transplant' factory in the country: they gave that job to Shoichiro Irimajiri, a man intimately connected with their racing programs - not a bean-counter.
I think that Honda could produce cars with the same sense of occasion and style as the best from Rolls and Bently (I'd put Aston in there, too), and I think that, with less than ten years of careful marketing, they will be able to convince enough people of their excellence, to equal their competitors sales - IF they put the right crew on the job.
Honda has the greatest racing tradition of any current manufacturer, and has far more of a 'winning tradition' than any other car or motorcycle company operating today. Like Ferrari, Honda has had racing in its blood from day one - unlike Ferrari, Honda didn't go through a decade-plus period of getting their asses handed to them; they've always been successful in competition. They don't accept defeat easily... Furthermore, Honda, like Porsche, is run by engineers, not money-men - this means that their upper management actually care about cars, unlike GM or Ford (or VAG, as far as I can tell...).
All I'm saying is, I wouldn't bet against 'em...
That's my intellectual difficulty;I think that Honda could produce cars with the same sense of occasion and style as the best from Rolls and Bently (I'd put Aston in there, too), and I think that, with less than ten years of careful marketing, they will be able to convince enough people of their excellence, to equal their competitors sales - IF they put the right crew on the job.
Honda has the greatest racing tradition of any current manufacturer, and has far more of a 'winning tradition' than any other car or motorcycle company operating today. Like Ferrari, Honda has had racing in its blood from day one - unlike Ferrari, Honda didn't go through a decade-plus period of getting their asses handed to them; they've always been successful in competition. They don't accept defeat easily... Furthermore, Honda, like Porsche, is run by engineers, not money-men - this means that their upper management actually care about cars, unlike GM or Ford (or VAG, as far as I can tell...).
All I'm saying is, I wouldn't bet against 'em...
Honda stands for all of that & has a great reputation for power units & bikes.
The moment you mention 'Acura', where's the heritage gone?
Honda could become a premium brand (as argued by Rosengarten & Stuermer in "Premium Power"
but I cannot see it being transferred to Acura:Honda NSX
Acura NSX
Which makes most sense to you?
Gassing Station | Japanese Chat | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff