Talk to me about Subaru's - Legacy and Forester
Discussion
Hi knowledgeable peeps. I'm after info on the above models because one of them will (hopefully) be my next motor some time later this year.
Specifically, are Subaru's as bulletproof as their reputation? Do the engines and/or turbo's and/or intercoolers have a finite life? Are there any specific things to watch out for, or expensive repairs/maintenance required during their lifespan? Do the turbo models have to be run on 97RON/super-unleaded?
The car will be a daily-driver used on a cross-country commute of about 14 miles - mostly A/B road with some in-town driving at the end. I've not made my mind up on what particular model I'm after, but to give you an idea, here are what I've been looking at:
Legacy Tourer GT or GTB (possibly too hardcore and expensive to run?)
Legacy Tourer 3.0B (poss. not quick enough for the fuel costs?)
Forester XT 2003-2008 (as above)
Legacy Tourer 2.0 MY2003-on (the sensible, cheap-but-slow option)
All thoughts, input and abuse appreciated!
n.b., if there's a decent owners club/forum you could point me towards, that would be very helpful.
Specifically, are Subaru's as bulletproof as their reputation? Do the engines and/or turbo's and/or intercoolers have a finite life? Are there any specific things to watch out for, or expensive repairs/maintenance required during their lifespan? Do the turbo models have to be run on 97RON/super-unleaded?
The car will be a daily-driver used on a cross-country commute of about 14 miles - mostly A/B road with some in-town driving at the end. I've not made my mind up on what particular model I'm after, but to give you an idea, here are what I've been looking at:
Legacy Tourer GT or GTB (possibly too hardcore and expensive to run?)
Legacy Tourer 3.0B (poss. not quick enough for the fuel costs?)
Forester XT 2003-2008 (as above)
Legacy Tourer 2.0 MY2003-on (the sensible, cheap-but-slow option)
All thoughts, input and abuse appreciated!
n.b., if there's a decent owners club/forum you could point me towards, that would be very helpful.
I'm after either a 2.5SE Outback or the 3.0Rn - getting one in the right spec is a nightmare!
As you probably know, the Outback is a Legacy with 200mm of ground clearance and self levelling suspension (great for towing), along with 'chunky' plastic bodywork to take the scrapes off road.
Those who have them seem to hang on to them. They are fabulous cars - very well engineered and up to the task. Both the 2.5 and 3.0 outbacks felt a bit wheezy to drive (and the 3.0 was an auto) but that's probably because I'm so used to turbo diesels!
Blowed if I can find an alternative - not that I'm really looking for one as I'm sold on the idea of an Outback really!
As you probably know, the Outback is a Legacy with 200mm of ground clearance and self levelling suspension (great for towing), along with 'chunky' plastic bodywork to take the scrapes off road.
Those who have them seem to hang on to them. They are fabulous cars - very well engineered and up to the task. Both the 2.5 and 3.0 outbacks felt a bit wheezy to drive (and the 3.0 was an auto) but that's probably because I'm so used to turbo diesels!
Blowed if I can find an alternative - not that I'm really looking for one as I'm sold on the idea of an Outback really!
In the current climate the 3.0 Spec Bs are looking very attractive on the used market. I've currently got a 2 litre Sports Tourer which is a fantastic car to drive and almost everything I need in a daily driver. I just find the performance a little underwhelming.
Looking on Autotrader etc, the '07 Spec B models are coming on the market now (with the SI drive) around the £15-16k mark. Very appealing.
The one thing I don't get is on the Subaru website, the mpg figures for the latest Spec B are better on the auto than on the manual which seems to go against conventional wisdom.
Looking on Autotrader etc, the '07 Spec B models are coming on the market now (with the SI drive) around the £15-16k mark. Very appealing.
The one thing I don't get is on the Subaru website, the mpg figures for the latest Spec B are better on the auto than on the manual which seems to go against conventional wisdom.
Edited by Benny Saltstein on Thursday 12th February 14:20
The impression I get is that the bigger engines are a bit underpowered for their capacity. Or perhaps a better way of putting it is that their headline performance figures are not quite as good as some other manufacturers. Not that it means much "in the real world". This is the conundrum I am faced with - I like the idea of having a bit of performance, but do I really need it and can I justify the cost? Litchfield have a lovely looking Forester 2.0 Turbo with 208bhp, but do I need that as a daily-driver? Same applies to the 3.0 Legacy really.
The 2.5 strikes me as being a bit pointless - not much faster than the 2.0 but with an economy penalty. Is that a fair assessment? The current 2.0 is about on a par with other manufacturers i.e. 9-and-a-bit seconds to 60 and ok economy considering the 4x4 drivetrain. And the 2.0 seems quite a bit cheaper to buy than a 3.0.
I hope this doesn't make me sound like Welshbeef!
The 2.5 strikes me as being a bit pointless - not much faster than the 2.0 but with an economy penalty. Is that a fair assessment? The current 2.0 is about on a par with other manufacturers i.e. 9-and-a-bit seconds to 60 and ok economy considering the 4x4 drivetrain. And the 2.0 seems quite a bit cheaper to buy than a 3.0.
I hope this doesn't make me sound like Welshbeef!
Litchfield had this a while back which I really liked the look of.
http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/stocklist.asp?i...
I think you're right about the 2.5l, on paper at least it doesn't add a great deal more.
http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/stocklist.asp?i...
I think you're right about the 2.5l, on paper at least it doesn't add a great deal more.
Don't know what the newer ones are like but I had an '01 Forester and it absolutely chowed jungle juice. Suffice to say that the replacement BMW 330i blinded me with its efficiency and it averages 24mpg! If fuel efficiency is an issue don't buy a Forester!
Big thing to watch out for is that the 60,000 mile service (think it was this one from memory) where they need a cambelt change. Two cambelts so you won't get much chage from £700 for the service
!
Have to say it (although know it won't probably interest you) but have you considered a 330i? Cheaper than an equivalent age Scooby and in the long run a much nicer thing to be inside. Other than that current economic gloom has brought least gen Boxster S's/Audi S4s and Merc CLK 500s to silly money levels...
Big thing to watch out for is that the 60,000 mile service (think it was this one from memory) where they need a cambelt change. Two cambelts so you won't get much chage from £700 for the service
!Have to say it (although know it won't probably interest you) but have you considered a 330i? Cheaper than an equivalent age Scooby and in the long run a much nicer thing to be inside. Other than that current economic gloom has brought least gen Boxster S's/Audi S4s and Merc CLK 500s to silly money levels...
George 500 said:
Don't know what the newer ones are like but I had an '01 Forester and it absolutely chowed jungle juice. Suffice to say that the replacement BMW 330i blinded me with its efficiency and it averages 24mpg! If fuel efficiency is an issue don't buy a Forester!
Big thing to watch out for is that the 60,000 mile service (think it was this one from memory) where they need a cambelt change. Two cambelts so you won't get much chage from £700 for the service!
Have to say it (although know it won't probably interest you) but have you considered a 330i? Cheaper than an equivalent age Scooby and in the long run a much nicer thing to be inside. Other than that current economic gloom has brought least gen Boxster S's/Audi S4s and Merc CLK 500s to silly money levels...
2 cambelts! Fark me, I didn't realise that. Big thing to watch out for is that the 60,000 mile service (think it was this one from memory) where they need a cambelt change. Two cambelts so you won't get much chage from £700 for the service
!Have to say it (although know it won't probably interest you) but have you considered a 330i? Cheaper than an equivalent age Scooby and in the long run a much nicer thing to be inside. Other than that current economic gloom has brought least gen Boxster S's/Audi S4s and Merc CLK 500s to silly money levels...
I had been looking at 330s, but I think I might just get a bit bored of one. That and I think they're over-priced.
I've just parted with my 2000 Outback, a 2.5 slushomatic, lovely machine definately the most comfy ride of all the larger scoobs, with its extra ride height. Had a lot more go than my 2.4 manual Volvo V70, like lots more!! yet on paper similar specs. It did 30mpg on a run easy enough too. It was on 174k when it went and drove like new.
Outbacks are 1ft longer than Foresters if you need the space, most people assume the Forsters are bigger
Plus you can't tow much with a Forester either but an Outback you can.
Outbacks are 1ft longer than Foresters if you need the space, most people assume the Forsters are bigger
Plus you can't tow much with a Forester either but an Outback you can.
I'm on my 4th Subaru wagon now so you can probably guess what I think of them...
Current one is an '02 Legacy GTB, 280hp 2.0 twin turbo - goes well as you'd expect, sticks to the road like sh!t to a blanket, I usually average about 27-28mpg and can get 30-32 easily enough on long trips.
The turbos do like to be run on the best fuel you can (98 where I am). Reliability on all of mine has been great, only real problem I can think of was an AFM packed up on the '97 NA Legacy.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 12th February 20:24
Thanks for the info chaps. A reliable load-lugger suitable for families who travel long-distances - sounds ideal! Also, I didn't appreciate the Forester is significantly shorter than the Legacy, so thank you for that tip.
What of this question about fuel? I can accept reasonably poor mpg on 95 RON, but poor mpg on super-unleaded quickly starts getting expensive! How much do the turbo's dislike "regular" petrol? Presumably the n/a cars don't care?
What of this question about fuel? I can accept reasonably poor mpg on 95 RON, but poor mpg on super-unleaded quickly starts getting expensive! How much do the turbo's dislike "regular" petrol? Presumably the n/a cars don't care?
Post pics or it doesn't exist!
I am quite cheered by what I'm reading here. I think - sensible hat on - that a n/a model is probably the way to go, due to the cheaper jungle-juice and frankly, I'm hardly ever going to use the performance of a turbo model.
I might look at the 330 Touring angle too, as I've found a reasonable-looking local one, but they're just soooo boring! 2 of my last 3 cars have been beemers, and I think the time is right for a change, especially as my next car will be a long-term keeper.
I am quite cheered by what I'm reading here. I think - sensible hat on - that a n/a model is probably the way to go, due to the cheaper jungle-juice and frankly, I'm hardly ever going to use the performance of a turbo model.
I might look at the 330 Touring angle too, as I've found a reasonable-looking local one, but they're just soooo boring! 2 of my last 3 cars have been beemers, and I think the time is right for a change, especially as my next car will be a long-term keeper.
Had my gen 3 Legacy GTB that I imported registered for 2 months. It's spent 1 of those on axle stands and cost me about a grand in parts. Hopefully their reputation for reliability will start to show now, but as with any car there are things that can go wrong and some of them can be expensive 
It now drives well, far more agile than it has any right to be given it's size and while the twin turbo power delivery takes a bit of getting used to it can certainly shift too. Absolutely cavernous inside and should make a decent occasional tow car.
I don't do enough miles in it to care about MPG, so I haven't bothered to measure it (not noticeably more expensive / cheaper than my old Supra 2.5TT though). Yes it should always run on super though...
It now drives well, far more agile than it has any right to be given it's size and while the twin turbo power delivery takes a bit of getting used to it can certainly shift too. Absolutely cavernous inside and should make a decent occasional tow car.
I don't do enough miles in it to care about MPG, so I haven't bothered to measure it (not noticeably more expensive / cheaper than my old Supra 2.5TT though). Yes it should always run on super though...
We just bought a Forester XTEN (EN = sunroof + navigation). 104 miles on the clock, registered September 2007. £13450. Black leather/black exterior.
That's a huge amount of car for not a huge amount of cash. I understand some dealers have brand new Forester XTs that they are willing to shift for 16k or so.
Look on the Subaru website in the used car finder and look at the Subaru Direct deals. Lots of very low mileage Foresters with Subaru Corporate ownership.
I have a 22b and the Forester is properly quick!
That's a huge amount of car for not a huge amount of cash. I understand some dealers have brand new Forester XTs that they are willing to shift for 16k or so.
Look on the Subaru website in the used car finder and look at the Subaru Direct deals. Lots of very low mileage Foresters with Subaru Corporate ownership.
I have a 22b and the Forester is properly quick!
I'm on my third Subaru, Legacy 2 litre, then 3 litre spec B, currently Impreza RB320. Also looking for a Forester for my wife.
The old 2 litre was good but fairly slow, the Spec B sublime. The 3 litre engine is a peach, chain cam too. I used to get 22-25mpg in normal tootling around using the power when required and could do 28-29mpg on a long motorway run. I never got below 21mpg. Lovely inside too, all the toys, the dvd satnav is particularly good. It'd drink it in town though and prefers superunleaded. Apart from a clutch on the 2 litre Legacy at 130k miles, nothing went wrong, not even a worn suspension bush. I p/exed the 2 litre at 135k and 6 years and it still had the original exhaust, bushes, calipers etc.
The Forester is essentially an Impreza on stilts so much smaller inside than a Legacy.
They're all highly underrated cars in my opinion, especially the Spec B. The nice thing about the 'B' is its understated looks. You get little attention for such a quick car.
Incidentally, a cambelt change on a Forester is around the £250 mark. The kit is about £150 plus an hour and a half labour plus the dreaded vat.
The old 2 litre was good but fairly slow, the Spec B sublime. The 3 litre engine is a peach, chain cam too. I used to get 22-25mpg in normal tootling around using the power when required and could do 28-29mpg on a long motorway run. I never got below 21mpg. Lovely inside too, all the toys, the dvd satnav is particularly good. It'd drink it in town though and prefers superunleaded. Apart from a clutch on the 2 litre Legacy at 130k miles, nothing went wrong, not even a worn suspension bush. I p/exed the 2 litre at 135k and 6 years and it still had the original exhaust, bushes, calipers etc.
The Forester is essentially an Impreza on stilts so much smaller inside than a Legacy.
They're all highly underrated cars in my opinion, especially the Spec B. The nice thing about the 'B' is its understated looks. You get little attention for such a quick car.
Incidentally, a cambelt change on a Forester is around the £250 mark. The kit is about £150 plus an hour and a half labour plus the dreaded vat.
rovermorris999 said:
I'm on my third Subaru, Legacy 2 litre, then 3 litre spec B, currently Impreza RB320. Also looking for a Forester for my wife.
The old 2 litre was good but fairly slow, the Spec B sublime. The 3 litre engine is a peach, chain cam too. I used to get 22-25mpg in normal tootling around using the power when required and could do 28-29mpg on a long motorway run. I never got below 21mpg. Lovely inside too, all the toys, the dvd satnav is particularly good. It'd drink it in town though and prefers superunleaded. Apart from a clutch on the 2 litre Legacy at 130k miles, nothing went wrong, not even a worn suspension bush. I p/exed the 2 litre at 135k and 6 years and it still had the original exhaust, bushes, calipers etc.
The Forester is essentially an Impreza on stilts so much smaller inside than a Legacy.
They're all highly underrated cars in my opinion, especially the Spec B. The nice thing about the 'B' is its understated looks. You get little attention for such a quick car.
Incidentally, a cambelt change on a Forester is around the £250 mark. The kit is about £150 plus an hour and a half labour plus the dreaded vat.
Perhaps- that service turned into a £700 total (incl VAT) for me from a Subaru main dealer (£800 incl a realignment I needed)The old 2 litre was good but fairly slow, the Spec B sublime. The 3 litre engine is a peach, chain cam too. I used to get 22-25mpg in normal tootling around using the power when required and could do 28-29mpg on a long motorway run. I never got below 21mpg. Lovely inside too, all the toys, the dvd satnav is particularly good. It'd drink it in town though and prefers superunleaded. Apart from a clutch on the 2 litre Legacy at 130k miles, nothing went wrong, not even a worn suspension bush. I p/exed the 2 litre at 135k and 6 years and it still had the original exhaust, bushes, calipers etc.
The Forester is essentially an Impreza on stilts so much smaller inside than a Legacy.
They're all highly underrated cars in my opinion, especially the Spec B. The nice thing about the 'B' is its understated looks. You get little attention for such a quick car.
Incidentally, a cambelt change on a Forester is around the £250 mark. The kit is about £150 plus an hour and a half labour plus the dreaded vat.
I do 90 miles a day commuting in a Forester Turbo. I have had it a couple of years now. The wife has a 182 cup and wants Forester STI as a replacement.
My last 'track/fun car' was a JDM impreza with 415Ibs of torque which I sold a couple months back. But that was fine for the odd drive, but not for touring the UK in...
My last 'track/fun car' was a JDM impreza with 415Ibs of torque which I sold a couple months back. But that was fine for the odd drive, but not for touring the UK in...
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