Discussion
Right, I've attained a copy of said Autocar magazine & read the CTR & summary pages (I couldn't find time to read it all last night because of the missus).
The CTR came joint 4th in the summary about 4 points behind the Mini S. They did however only give the CTR 4 out of 10 for running costs, which didn't help. In the important catorgories such as performance, street cred & less so interior space it got 10 out of 10.
The comparison does not give the CTR a fair & fighting chance. They state in the article that the car was on rubber that was 8500 miles old. Bearing in mind that the EVO long term test car had its front boots changed at around this point, of course it's going to be s%^te around a wet circuit. They might as well have sat in the bar or even stayed in bed & written the article. 200bhp, a wet circuit & f$%ked tyres are a never going to produce a winner. I do of course assume that the other cars were all on fairly new tyres.
It is well documented (I seem to remember from some Performance Car or Auto Trader tyre test) that the best tread depth for wet work is 7mm+ & that the best
depth for dry work is 3mm.
& lift off oversteer didn't stop the 1.9 205 from being a legend!
The soapbox has been packed back away inside my cavernous boot.
quote:
Yes, they did mention that the CTR was prone to lift off oversteer but why is this a problem for them?
I've never had any proper lift-off oversteer in mine - tried very hard to provoke it on Monday down the twisty bit of the A40 at Stokenchurch, in the rain - 3rd gear, lifting off hard at about 70mph (unwise-sounding but I'd been working up to it, having had not even a twitch at lower speeds). Got a bit of a tighter line and that's it, certainly no loss of traction. Despite going downhill. In the rain. I guess that proves worn tyres make a difference (mine are 3,500 miles old).
I ordered my car in mid-Feb, and picked it up 1st March. It was after my 3rd test drive, and the dealer finally decided to sell me its pre-ordered demonstrator so that I'd sign up. In fact, I could have had it within 10 days.
Interesting disparity in delivery times listed here chaps. I ordered mine the the first week in May and have a collection date of June 7th (5 weeks).
I'm having a few extras put in it too, so it must be arriving at the garage a few days before then.
I wonder if the colour is relevant? I've gone for a black one.
I'm guessing everyone has seen the comparision road tests on Driven & Top Gear GTI? There have been 3 that I've seen (and recorded) and the Civic won them all. If Jason Plato can rave about it, then that's good enough for me.
Mark.
I'm having a few extras put in it too, so it must be arriving at the garage a few days before then.
I wonder if the colour is relevant? I've gone for a black one.
I'm guessing everyone has seen the comparision road tests on Driven & Top Gear GTI? There have been 3 that I've seen (and recorded) and the Civic won them all. If Jason Plato can rave about it, then that's good enough for me.
Mark.
Have just got a call from the Honda dealership and I'll be picking up my CTR on Monday... hurrah! 
Also had a bit of a discussion with my insurers about transferring the car details. Turns out that people have been clicking on buttons they shouldn't have on their website and have been getting as much as 15% off their premium!! In the event of a claim people have to pay the difference in cost but the insurance is still valid for them. Cheeky or what?
Also had a bit of a discussion with my insurers about transferring the car details. Turns out that people have been clicking on buttons they shouldn't have on their website and have been getting as much as 15% off their premium!! In the event of a claim people have to pay the difference in cost but the insurance is still valid for them. Cheeky or what?
quote:
Just about to do the same as you re swapping the Scooby for a CTR, various reasons etc, are you dissapointed in any way?
Dougal, I've not been at all disappointed. Quite the opposite. It's more refined, more fun to thrash and much much cheaper to run. Only problems are lack of rear doors, and wheelspin in the wet (not understeer though, and I find it quite fun to have to back off!)
SJobson,
Cheers for that, it's made me feel better, just wondered thats all as the Scooby was/is a performance icon and I would hate to be dissapointed in the new car, pick it up on Saturday, can't wait, should have it run-in by Sunday!!!!!
The various reasons were exactly what you said re running costs, I do a fair few miles a year and the Scooby was just about to come in for some heavy service bills/depreciation etc, didn't really fancy the new one either so looked for an alternative. Mind you, I imported mine (new) from Holland for 15k OTR so with the trade I got against the CTR it's basically cost me nothing to run! Just wanted to keep it that way.
I've got my fun car for the weekends (cheeper to run than the Scooby), just wanted something fun for general getting about, the CTR was the only option really, drove things like the Seat Leon Cupra bla bla and it just felt dead, fast, but dead, no fun whatsoever, Clio 172, too small and it's a girls car.
Wish me luck.
Cheers for that, it's made me feel better, just wondered thats all as the Scooby was/is a performance icon and I would hate to be dissapointed in the new car, pick it up on Saturday, can't wait, should have it run-in by Sunday!!!!!
The various reasons were exactly what you said re running costs, I do a fair few miles a year and the Scooby was just about to come in for some heavy service bills/depreciation etc, didn't really fancy the new one either so looked for an alternative. Mind you, I imported mine (new) from Holland for 15k OTR so with the trade I got against the CTR it's basically cost me nothing to run! Just wanted to keep it that way.
I've got my fun car for the weekends (cheeper to run than the Scooby), just wanted something fun for general getting about, the CTR was the only option really, drove things like the Seat Leon Cupra bla bla and it just felt dead, fast, but dead, no fun whatsoever, Clio 172, too small and it's a girls car.
Wish me luck.
Good luck Dougal. Running costs were about to get to me, and I got a good trade-in offer on my Scoob. Which was nice because they don't seem to be selling for much secondhand these days.
It wasn't just the Scoob's running costs which put me off though - it understeered too much (even after the Bump Steer mod) and had poor throttle response compared to my weekend car (Elise). The Civic is vastly more comparable in those areas to the Elise.
It wasn't just the Scoob's running costs which put me off though - it understeered too much (even after the Bump Steer mod) and had poor throttle response compared to my weekend car (Elise). The Civic is vastly more comparable in those areas to the Elise.
I'm glad I went for the CTR over a new WRX (ugly) & s/h Scooby. I'd spoken to a dealer & the main things that put me off were the running costs (7500 miles services & low 20s MPG or barely 30MPG on a steady run).
The services on the CTR are cheap (compared to an Elise), 12k apart & there should not be any problems with it (it's a Honda!) ever.
My only slight gripe is the insurance which as we all know is group 18 or one more than the Elise.
After 1500 fantastic miles I feel it is a small price to pay.
I've just got my Geodesy plumbed back in, so my driving should improve now that I'm not looking over every hedgerow & behind every road sign.
The services on the CTR are cheap (compared to an Elise), 12k apart & there should not be any problems with it (it's a Honda!) ever.
My only slight gripe is the insurance which as we all know is group 18 or one more than the Elise.
After 1500 fantastic miles I feel it is a small price to pay.
I've just got my Geodesy plumbed back in, so my driving should improve now that I'm not looking over every hedgerow & behind every road sign.
Ah but CJN - good observation makes a good driver - perhaps you were driving better looking for speed cameras - you may have 'inadvertently' spotted animals, children, slithery things in the road, oncoming vehicles seen over hedges etc etc - please don't switch off and expect a little black box to deal with everything, especially for the sake of the slithery thing!
At last I have my new CTR! After a rather brief drive of about 30 miles what do I think of it? It's even faster than I thought!
As I'm following the running in procedure and trying not to VTech it I can only comment on the slower portion of the rev band. Even below 6000rpm it is bloody fast, making exceedingly swift progress through the gears and up to decent cruising speeds.
Taking a couple of swift corners proved how grippy this car is and I am looking forward to getting onto the track. I am completely chuffed to bits about it and my old Lotus seems a very distant memory.
As I'm following the running in procedure and trying not to VTech it I can only comment on the slower portion of the rev band. Even below 6000rpm it is bloody fast, making exceedingly swift progress through the gears and up to decent cruising speeds.
Taking a couple of swift corners proved how grippy this car is and I am looking forward to getting onto the track. I am completely chuffed to bits about it and my old Lotus seems a very distant memory.
As obe wan kanobe says (after the running in period):-
Use the VTEC
It is so addictive. When you get to 6k you think it will give up just like most cars do, then it does its Jackell & Hyde bit & suddenly you're bouncing off the limiter & straight past the VTEC point into the next gear.
It also sounds so sweet
It's probably best to take the day off work, run it in & (stolen from another post) then drive it as if you'd stolen it.
I'm 1600 miles in & love it to death. I'm going to put another 500 miles on it this Sunday on a trip to Scotland & can't wait to jump in & drive.
I do get sick of visiting the petrol station though. Reckon on 26-28MPG or 260-270miles per refill. I did get the light to come on after just 215miles the other day though (1.7gallons left or 9.3gallons used) but then did a further 25miles & could only squeeze in 9.5gallons). Anything has got to be better than 'refill' coming on & then having to guess how much is left.
Just wait til you try to go past an Elise on a straight bit of road
try not to hit it on the way past when the VTEC kicks. 
Use the VTEC
It is so addictive. When you get to 6k you think it will give up just like most cars do, then it does its Jackell & Hyde bit & suddenly you're bouncing off the limiter & straight past the VTEC point into the next gear.
It also sounds so sweet
It's probably best to take the day off work, run it in & (stolen from another post) then drive it as if you'd stolen it.
I'm 1600 miles in & love it to death. I'm going to put another 500 miles on it this Sunday on a trip to Scotland & can't wait to jump in & drive.
I do get sick of visiting the petrol station though. Reckon on 26-28MPG or 260-270miles per refill. I did get the light to come on after just 215miles the other day though (1.7gallons left or 9.3gallons used) but then did a further 25miles & could only squeeze in 9.5gallons). Anything has got to be better than 'refill' coming on & then having to guess how much is left.
Just wait til you try to go past an Elise on a straight bit of road
try not to hit it on the way past when the VTEC kicks. I am in the process of buying a new Civic Type R (CTR). I'd prefer to buy from a franchised dealer for that "peace of mind" of quality but my locally dealer is proving to be very reluctant to negotiate on price. Full list price for a brand new CTR in black with air-con and a CD changer is what they are suggesting is the "norm".
I am not convinced this is the case. The target price from whatcar.com and some of the internet dealers is less. I would be interested to hear any details of savings people where able to negotiate and any suggestion of good places to buy from, tips etc.
Any info gratefully received. The CTR is a nice car but I want to try and get it at a nice price too :-)
I am not convinced this is the case. The target price from whatcar.com and some of the internet dealers is less. I would be interested to hear any details of savings people where able to negotiate and any suggestion of good places to buy from, tips etc.
Any info gratefully received. The CTR is a nice car but I want to try and get it at a nice price too :-)
The fact is the CTR is in such demand at the moment that the dealers don't have to move on the price at all because they know they will sell every car they get. Sad but true!
Even with a European import I think you would only save hundreds of pounds rather than thousands. You would probably not have the Cat 1 alarm fitted as standard and would have to get one yourself which is more money and more hassle.
The CTR is a real bargain at the price anyway. Just get one!
Even with a European import I think you would only save hundreds of pounds rather than thousands. You would probably not have the Cat 1 alarm fitted as standard and would have to get one yourself which is more money and more hassle.
The CTR is a real bargain at the price anyway. Just get one!
I paid list.
There was no way the dealer was going to budge. If I hadn't paid list then the very next person would have taken some or the dealer's alocation.
I was told by the dealer (who to be very honest did seem genuine & gave me excellent service) that a dealer down south had advertised 2-3% savings on list shortly after the CTR was launched.
Honda saw the advert & took the allocation of CTRs from the dealer.
If you want a bargain buy a 172 from a supermarket. You can see that the CTR is holding value, just check Autotrader & the like, There was nothing less than £15k last week.
CTRs are the dogs
There was no way the dealer was going to budge. If I hadn't paid list then the very next person would have taken some or the dealer's alocation.
I was told by the dealer (who to be very honest did seem genuine & gave me excellent service) that a dealer down south had advertised 2-3% savings on list shortly after the CTR was launched.
Honda saw the advert & took the allocation of CTRs from the dealer.
If you want a bargain buy a 172 from a supermarket. You can see that the CTR is holding value, just check Autotrader & the like, There was nothing less than £15k last week.
CTRs are the dogs
I paid list too, last week, tried really hard too for a deal, even walked out of the dealership when he wouldn't chuck in the mats, his reply was "I can't do any deals on the CTR, I have got people lining up for them", so , basically, take it or leave it, it's no skin off my nose, I took it. Got a good trade in price on the Scooby though and a good finance package so felt a bit better for that.
Haven't been dissapointed yet with the car, compared to the Scooby, seems to handle better, but haven't pushed it yet as I'm still running it in. Much nicer car all round than the Scooby too.
It's the same situation that Subaru were in a couple of years ago, no deals to be had, list or no car, demand exceeds supply and all that, so I imported one for 15k Brand new, full UK spec, OTR and saved 7.5k over list. Good deal me thinks.
Haven't been dissapointed yet with the car, compared to the Scooby, seems to handle better, but haven't pushed it yet as I'm still running it in. Much nicer car all round than the Scooby too.
It's the same situation that Subaru were in a couple of years ago, no deals to be had, list or no car, demand exceeds supply and all that, so I imported one for 15k Brand new, full UK spec, OTR and saved 7.5k over list. Good deal me thinks.
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