The M Badge on non-M cars debate, a slightly different twist

The M Badge on non-M cars debate, a slightly different twist

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dustystylus

Original Poster:

42 posts

165 months

Friday 14th October 2011
quotequote all
I read with interest the debate on here over the M Badge on non-M cars. Partly because when I picked up my E36 328i recently it had an M badge where the 328i should have been (and an ebay one on the grille redcard )

So despite M-Tec front and rear bumpers and the retro-fitted M badged trim around the doors etc, they both had to go. Note, not an M3 badge, an M badge. Interestingly enough though on Real OEM, the M-Badge comes under the retro-fittable section.

so today I saw a new twist on this rather opinionated badging... a 318, kitted out in AC Schnitzer parts, mirrors, alloys etc but as it goes past .. on the left hand side of the boot is an AC Schnitzer badge, 318 on the right hand side.

unfortunately no photos but it got me thinking whether an AC Schnitzer badge would be more 'acceptable' to the purists compared to the M badge? I see AC S as more of a styling company these days but i'm still not sold on sticking an AC Schnitzer badge on the back of the boot, much the same as an M-badge.

I was curious if there is as much passion about Alpina and AC S badges as there was with M badges on non-M cars! (I actually did think this AC S kitted 318 did look good though paperbag )





Y282

20,566 posts

171 months

Friday 14th October 2011
quotequote all
ACS is fine if the car has ACS bits on it IMHO.

M badges on non Ms is for aholes.

Nigel Worc's

8,121 posts

187 months

Friday 14th October 2011
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My E39 528i SE has an M badge on the steering wheel, a small one at the bottom of the center spoke.

Not sure why, it's been there since I've owned the car, and to be honest looks like it's always been there.

Panda76

2,569 posts

149 months

Friday 14th October 2011
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False Badges on on cars have always been a bug of mine tbh..
Hate it , it's all so obvious too, unless it's a sleeper...

I fking love proper M's , I,m currently head over heels in love with the E92 white black roofed power stonking M..Thing of beauty imo.

In about 10 yrs time when my fking mortgage is paid off and I'll be 48 , maybe balding , very bitter,very cynical and very smug I,m going to to spunk a fk load of money an an M and nail the fking nuts of it ..
Just saying .

Panda76

2,569 posts

149 months

Friday 14th October 2011
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When my then teenage son comes to me crying for money for soooo many important things like food and water!! Tough st , I spunked it all on a remap and wheels LOL

dumbfunk

1,727 posts

283 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
Nigel Worc's said:
My E39 528i SE has an M badge on the steering wheel, a small one at the bottom of the center spoke.

Not sure why, it's been there since I've owned the car, and to be honest looks like it's always been there.
If it's like either of my 3 series the M steering wheel was an option and so it comes with the badge. It's a factory item and therefore passes muster in my view. I had a E92 320D M-Sport coupé that had M markings on the wheel, gearknob and door sills - all standard fit. I'd never dream of adding a badge to the exterior of the car though.

Nigel Worc's

8,121 posts

187 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
dumbfunk said:
If it's like either of my 3 series the M steering wheel was an option and so it comes with the badge. It's a factory item and therefore passes muster in my view. I had a E92 320D M-Sport coupé that had M markings on the wheel, gearknob and door sills - all standard fit. I'd never dream of adding a badge to the exterior of the car though.
Fairy nuff ....... at least I know my car isn't pimped now lol

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
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Y282 said:
M badges on non Ms is for aholes.
I think you are confusing the use of an ///M badge with that of an ///M(3/5/6) badge and are getting a bit het up about something and nothing quite frankly!.

Fitting an M3/M5/M6 badge to a car that is not a genuine factory made M car is definitely a no-no to Me as it is claiming the car is something it blatantly isn't.

However:

The first Mass produced car from BMW's M-division was the M535i:
This car did not have an "M" engine fitted, it had a standard production engine, upgraded suspension, M-division aero parts (which was basically a front air dam and (rubber)rear spoiler), 3mm thicker front brake discs (but they were the same diameter and the rear brakes were left standard), a close ratio gearbox, a limited slip differential, Recaro front seats, a three spoke sports steering wheel, ///M535i badges (not ///M5), front and rear and that was about that. This model was not classified as a "tarted" up production car though, it is recognised as being the first M-division production car.


Now compare that for example, to the E30 325i Sport:
This came with a standard production engine (as was the M535's), upgraded M-tech suspension (as was the M535's), M-tech aero bodykit designed by the M-division (as was the M535's though there was less of it), standard brakes all round (so this is different to the M535), a close ratio gearbox (as was the M535's), a limited slip differential (as was the M535's), Recaro front seats (as the M535 had), M-division three spoke Sports steering wheel (as was the M535's) and, BMW had no compunctions about fitting ///M badges to the front and rear of the car despite the M-division not assembling it, so are BMW aholes for fitting the badges?, it's their badge to with what they like after all.

Where's the real difference between the two?. The M-division workers are not car building God's who were born with unique abilities that the other BMW workers do not possess, they merely work in that department instead of another at BMW. If you need further proof of this: All current BMW M-cars are assembled on the exact same production lines as the standard production models, by the same workers!.


Now My E36 328i Sport came from the factory festooned with various ///M badges. So again, are BMW aholes for using their own badge? (and I'm quite happy to admit that when I had to scrap My previous 325i Sport I took the factory fitted ///M badge off the bootlid and it now sits proudly on My 328i Sport on the opposite side to it's 328i badge. it's not claiming to be an M3, it's merely stating that it has genuine Motorsport parts fitted to it as do all the other factory fitted badges and it's a homage to My previous beloved car).

If you think I'm an ahole for having the ///M badge on the rear of My car then frankly that's your tough scensoredt as far as I'm concerned!.
BMW themselves have no issue with the badge being there because they understand the difference between an ///M badge and an ///M(3/5/6) badge!. (It's a pity more BMW owners don't understand the difference!).





Y282

20,566 posts

171 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
4rephill said:
Y282 said:
M badges on non Ms is for aholes.
I think you are confusing the use of an ///M badge with that of an ///M(3/5/6) badge and are getting a bit het up about something and nothing quite frankly!.

Fitting an M3/M5/M6 badge to a car that is not a genuine factory made M car is definitely a no-no to Me as it is claiming the car is something it blatantly isn't.

However:

The first Mass produced car from BMW's M-division was the M535i:
This car did not have an "M" engine fitted, it had a standard production engine, upgraded suspension, M-division aero parts (which was basically a front air dam and (rubber)rear spoiler), 3mm thicker front brake discs (but they were the same diameter and the rear brakes were left standard), a close ratio gearbox, a limited slip differential, Recaro front seats, a three spoke sports steering wheel, ///M535i badges (not ///M5), front and rear and that was about that. This model was not classified as a "tarted" up production car though, it is recognised as being the first M-division production car.


Now compare that for example, to the E30 325i Sport:
This came with a standard production engine (as was the M535's), upgraded M-tech suspension (as was the M535's), M-tech aero bodykit designed by the M-division (as was the M535's though there was less of it), standard brakes all round (so this is different to the M535), a close ratio gearbox (as was the M535's), a limited slip differential (as was the M535's), Recaro front seats (as the M535 had), M-division three spoke Sports steering wheel (as was the M535's) and, BMW had no compunctions about fitting ///M badges to the front and rear of the car despite the M-division not assembling it, so are BMW aholes for fitting the badges?, it's their badge to with what they like after all.

Where's the real difference between the two?. The M-division workers are not car building God's who were born with unique abilities that the other BMW workers do not possess, they merely work in that department instead of another at BMW. If you need further proof of this: All current BMW M-cars are assembled on the exact same production lines as the standard production models, by the same workers!.


Now My E36 328i Sport came from the factory festooned with various ///M badges. So again, are BMW aholes for using their own badge? (and I'm quite happy to admit that when I had to scrap My previous 325i Sport I took the factory fitted ///M badge off the bootlid and it now sits proudly on My 328i Sport on the opposite side to it's 328i badge. it's not claiming to be an M3, it's merely stating that it has genuine Motorsport parts fitted to it as do all the other factory fitted badges and it's a homage to My previous beloved car).

If you think I'm an ahole for having the ///M badge on the rear of My car then frankly that's your tough scensoredt as far as I'm concerned!.
BMW themselves have no issue with the badge being there because they understand the difference between an ///M badge and an ///M(3/5/6) badge!. (It's a pity more BMW owners don't understand the difference!).



You've certainly proved me wrong.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
Y282 said:
You've certainly proved me wrong.
It's not a matter of trying to prove you wrong, it's a case of trying to get BMW owners off their high horses about something that is in the big scheme of things quite trivial and something that BMW themselves do from the factory!.

If BMW are quite happy to fit ///M badges to non M-cars then why should it bother you so much?. You don't own the rights to the badge, BMW does and they seen quite happy to sell the badges to whoever wants one.

Like I say, if you want to think I'm an ahole for having an ///M badge on the back of My car, that's your problem, BMW have never had a problem with it.

Y282

20,566 posts

171 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
4rephill said:
Y282 said:
You've certainly proved me wrong.
It's not a matter of trying to prove you wrong, it's a case of trying to get BMW owners off their high horses about something that is in the big scheme of things quite trivial and something that BMW themselves do from the factory!.

If BMW are quite happy to fit ///M badges to non M-cars then why should it bother you so much?. You don't own the rights to the badge, BMW does and they seen quite happy to sell the badges to whoever wants one.

Like I say, if you want to think I'm an ahole for having an ///M badge on the back of My car, that's your problem, BMW have never had a problem with it.
Marketing's marketing, i just dont think an msport is different enough to warrant it.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
Y282 said:
Marketing's marketing, i just dont think an msport is different enough to warrant it.
Like I've already posted: M-divisions E12 M535i Vs the E30 325i Sport. Both carry ///M badges from the factory. One was built by the M-division, the other on the standard production line. Where's the difference between the two cars when it comes to what's fitted to them?.

At the end of the day all the ///M badge does it mark it out as having motorsport parts on the car (unless it's just the badge that's been fitted afterwards by the owner). ///M badges fitted at the factory to Sport models are no different to the GTI badge on a golf as I see it, it's simply denoting a model specification. What you're getting upset about is the equivalent of getting upset because someone has fitted Ghia badges to their 1.6L Ford Cortina.

Do you get upset every time you see a non M-car wearing genuine M-series alloys?. Do Motorsport alloys on a non BMW-Sport models make your blood boil?. Should BMW not be allowed to market motorsport parts for any model that is not an M3/M5/M6?.
Yes, BMW use the ///M badge as a marketing tool but don't you think they've earned the right to considering all the money they've put into the M-division over the years? (frankly I think they'd be foolish not to!).

Now the ///M3/M5/M6 badge on the other hand is a different matter, as these badges denote that the car they are attached to has been designed to be different beyond simple bolt on parts.



Y282

20,566 posts

171 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
4rephill said:
Y282 said:
Marketing's marketing, i just dont think an msport is different enough to warrant it.
Like I've already posted: M-divisions E12 M535i Vs the E30 325i Sport. Both carry ///M badges from the factory. One was built by the M-division, the other on the standard production line. Where's the difference between the two cars when it comes to what's fitted to them?.

At the end of the day all the ///M badge does it mark it out as having motorsport parts on the car (unless it's just the badge that's been fitted afterwards by the owner). ///M badges fitted at the factory to Sport models are no different to the GTI badge on a golf as I see it, it's simply denoting a model specification. What you're getting upset about is the equivalent of getting upset because someone has fitted Ghia badges to their 1.6L Ford Cortina.

Do you get upset every time you see a non M-car wearing genuine M-series alloys?. Do Motorsport alloys on a non BMW-Sport models make your blood boil?. Should BMW not be allowed to market motorsport parts for any model that is not an M3/M5/M6?.
Yes, BMW use the ///M badge as a marketing tool but don't you think they've earned the right to considering all the money they've put into the M-division over the years? (frankly I think they'd be foolish not to!).

Now the ///M3/M5/M6 badge on the other hand is a different matter, as these badges denote that the car they are attached to has been designed to be different beyond simple bolt on parts.
No. None of it upsets me. I just wouldnt bother buying an msport 328i for example. Id go for a standard 328 or an m3. Ive driven all three and that's just my opinion, the msport isnt anything out of the ordinary in the real world to drive.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
Y282 said:
No. None of it upsets me.
Huh? scratchchin , this statement says otherwise:
Y282 said:
M badges on non Ms is for aholes.
that to Me says it bothers you quite a bit!, otherwise why say it?.


Y282 said:
I just wouldnt bother buying an msport 328i for example. Id go for a standard 328 or an m3. Ive driven all three and that's just my opinion, the msport isnt anything out of the ordinary in the real world to drive.
As you say, that's your opinion and your personal preference but it's not what this thread is about.

However, I'll go off topic just to say that for you the Msport doesn't feel anything out of the ordinary in the real world to drive but for others it does. Some people feel that the Sport versions are too crashy whilst others feel that the SE's are too soft. Other people simply prefer the look of the Sport version, it's horses for courses at the end of the day. I bought My 328i Sport because I prefer the sportier look to it than the standard 328i (which to me looks a bit plain and boring), and it felt nicer to drive than the standard version.



Back on topic, I just think too many BMW owners do not understand the difference between an ///M badge and an ///M3; ///M5; ///M6 badge. They seem to think that any car wearing an ///M badge is pretending to be an M3; M5; M6 and it's just not the case.

Y282

20,566 posts

171 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
4rephill said:
Y282 said:
No. None of it upsets me.
Huh? scratchchin , this statement says otherwise:
Y282 said:
M badges on non Ms is for aholes.
that to Me says it bothers you quite a bit!, otherwise why say it?.


Y282 said:
I just wouldnt bother buying an msport 328i for example. Id go for a standard 328 or an m3. Ive driven all three and that's just my opinion, the msport isnt anything out of the ordinary in the real world to drive.
As you say, that's your opinion and your personal preference but it's not what this thread is about.

However, I'll go off topic just to say that for you the Msport doesn't feel anything out of the ordinary in the real world to drive but for others it does. Some people feel that the Sport versions are too crashy whilst others feel that the SE's are too soft. Other people simply prefer the look of the Sport version, it's horses for courses at the end of the day. I bought My 328i Sport because I prefer the sportier look to it than the standard 328i (which to me looks a bit plain and boring), and it felt nicer to drive than the standard version.



Back on topic, I just think too many BMW owners do not understand the difference between an ///M badge and an ///M3; ///M5; ///M6 badge. They seem to think that any car wearing an ///M badge is pretending to be an M3; M5; M6 and it's just not the case.
I tend not to get into full on back and forths on here, so i'll just say this and it'll be me done...

Typing that i think something is for aholes is far from indicative of being upset. It involved virtually no emotion. Let me explain.

My reasoning behind it is that the badging on the msport isnt indicative of anything special. As a spec level it's neither st nor get off the pot, a real no mans land. It smacks of the sort of branding nonsense used to get young drivers to stump up an extra grand or two when buying entry level french hatchbacks, justified by a sticker on the arse and a set of seat trims that look like they were made from curtains.

If it's your thing, good luck to you. It just looks a bit fur coat and no knickers to me.

Enjoy the rest of the thread.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Saturday 15th October 2011
quotequote all
Y282 said:
Typing that i think something is for aholes is far from indicative of being upset. It involved virtually no emotion.
It obviously annoys you enough to make a statement on a public forum as to your personal opinion of the personalities of those who have the badges on their cars. If it truly didn't bother you, you wouldn't feel a need to express an opinion.

Therefore, if it annoys you, it's an emotional reaction so there is an emotion involved. Those who aren't bothered are the ones who say nothing at all about it because they just don't care.

At the end of the day it's different strokes for different folks.

I thank you for an interesting discussion though! smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 16th October 2011
quotequote all
I've driven lots of SEs and lots of M-Sports and there's significant difference. Probably most noticeable in the 1 Series if I'm honest but the difference is appreciable. In the 1 Series I would take the body kit and trim and leave the suspension upgrades and in the 3 series I'd preferably have all the M upgrades. In the 5 series SE spec I prefer.

I do laugh quietly to myself every time I see the 330d M Sport round the corner from me with an additional M badge above the 330d badge. It also has replica M6 wheels and looks utter chav-tripe.

Patrick Bateman

12,143 posts

173 months

Sunday 16th October 2011
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Going from my compact (ES) to the 330 (Sport) there's a massive difference in cornering.

dumbfunk

1,727 posts

283 months

Sunday 16th October 2011
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Agree - the M-Sport suspension and seats made my E46 and E90 3-series fantastic to drive despite the miserly, tax-enforced diesel engine choice.

Also if I'm being completely honest, I am looking for a replacement E90 or E60 at the moment and must admit to having immediately disregarded anything festooned with additional //M badges in just the same way that I wouldn't consider a car with after market spoilers - in both cases my perception (whether accurate or not) of the owners is not a positive one.

This may seem odd to some posters on this thread but it's a gut reaction that I confess is difficult for me to explain. I am however sure I'm not alone, right?

Nigel Worc's

8,121 posts

187 months

Sunday 16th October 2011
quotequote all
Gosh, chaps, it's just a badge.

Nobody really cares.

If young Johnny can only afford to insure a 316i or something, and he wants to spend time and money making it look a little like an M3, or whatever, then good luck to him