New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys
Discussion
youngsyr said:
Perhaps, but we need to focus on the issue at hand - BMW have claimed that their alarms meet Thatcham I in their brochures. If the alarms do not meet this standard, then I would suspect that BMW could be held liable for any damages/rectification costs that their customers incur as a result.
But they do meet this standard, which is why Thatcham have them listed on their website as meeting their approval? If, for instance, an alarm meets the required standard to be Thatcham approved, and then it turns out later that there was a glaring hole in Thatcham's testing, I don't see how BMW could be responsible for that, from a litigation point of view at least. BMW claimed it met Thatcham Category I, and all the literature on the Thatcham website says that they do.
I have recently been getting insurance quotes for my current 3-Series, and I know it's an E46, however when I fill the forms in on the internet, it autocompletes the security part of the questionnaire for me. And what does it autocomplete? Yep, Thatcham Approved Factory Fitted Alarm/Immobiliser. I really would struggle to believe BMW made the retrograde step of not fitting Thatcham Approved kit for the E9x series.
(The quotes are all down on last year by the way).
Regarding Thatcham approval I think peeps have a higher expectation of the standard required to achieve the 'Pass' than it likely is.
When the Class 1 and Class 2 ratings were introduced in the mid 1990's in simple terms for the vehicle or retrofit system to qualify it was.
Class 2. Electronic Imobiliser built into or retro fitted to vehicle.
Class 1. As Class 2 plus an audible warning in the event of intrustion without the use of the keys. Eg: Breaking a window (or opening the door and not activating the Ign. Key within a certain time).
Yes the systems had to meet a certain spec, a major one being interior protection but other than that it was more related to the siren, battery back-up, the install process and how the system remotes worked. With both Class 1 and Class 2 the imobiliser was the main measurement as this prevented the vehicle being stolen, at the time theft from vehicles was less of an issue than theft of a vehicle.
Golf Gti's and Escort Cossie's spring to mind, Park it and wave bye'bye, if it was still there when you came back it was a good day.
Whilst I'd expect the performance standard to have changed over the last 17 years I very much doubt the 'alarm going off in the event of a window being smashed' is measured to the last mm. Likewise when the car is stolen using a clonned key the Alarm hasn't failed.
AFAIK most current BMW models use a electronic sphere from the centre of the headlining (the little box) to create a protection field against intrustion which is why the technique the scumbags appear to use works. I'm not sure if the 'sphere' can be adjusted but its certainly worth testing it yourself to ensure its active as it can easily be turned off by accident using the key. To test it, leave the window open, set the alarm, wait about a minute then stick your arm in.
BTW older BM's used to have a heavy lump of metal on the bottom of the window runner, when the window was smashed the weight made the runner drop to the bottom of the door which I believe activated the alarm circuit, this didn't meet Thatcham Class 1 which is why the factory system back in the 1990's didn't pass.
Sh*t that it is I doubt BMW will be confessing anytime soon, their Legal Advisors
will have told them to steer well clear of doing that and TBH I doubt any other Car Maker would either. I would however expect behind the mask that they are taking the issue very seriously and working hard to create a permanant fix. BMW value their brand very highly and won't be enjoying the unwanted attention.
Likewise it won't only be private vehicles that have / are being stolen, Dealers run huge fleets of loan cars and demo's not to mention hire companies and the Plod. I bet a few of those have gone missing by now. Rest assured the Dealers will be making their voices heard, Dealer Groups such as Sytner won't just sit back and watch New Car Sales decline without getting answers.
My name isn't Noel (Just share the initals)
I don't and never have worked for BMW
I have previously worked in a BMW Dealership.
When the Class 1 and Class 2 ratings were introduced in the mid 1990's in simple terms for the vehicle or retrofit system to qualify it was.
Class 2. Electronic Imobiliser built into or retro fitted to vehicle.
Class 1. As Class 2 plus an audible warning in the event of intrustion without the use of the keys. Eg: Breaking a window (or opening the door and not activating the Ign. Key within a certain time).
Yes the systems had to meet a certain spec, a major one being interior protection but other than that it was more related to the siren, battery back-up, the install process and how the system remotes worked. With both Class 1 and Class 2 the imobiliser was the main measurement as this prevented the vehicle being stolen, at the time theft from vehicles was less of an issue than theft of a vehicle.
Golf Gti's and Escort Cossie's spring to mind, Park it and wave bye'bye, if it was still there when you came back it was a good day.
Whilst I'd expect the performance standard to have changed over the last 17 years I very much doubt the 'alarm going off in the event of a window being smashed' is measured to the last mm. Likewise when the car is stolen using a clonned key the Alarm hasn't failed.
AFAIK most current BMW models use a electronic sphere from the centre of the headlining (the little box) to create a protection field against intrustion which is why the technique the scumbags appear to use works. I'm not sure if the 'sphere' can be adjusted but its certainly worth testing it yourself to ensure its active as it can easily be turned off by accident using the key. To test it, leave the window open, set the alarm, wait about a minute then stick your arm in.
BTW older BM's used to have a heavy lump of metal on the bottom of the window runner, when the window was smashed the weight made the runner drop to the bottom of the door which I believe activated the alarm circuit, this didn't meet Thatcham Class 1 which is why the factory system back in the 1990's didn't pass.
Sh*t that it is I doubt BMW will be confessing anytime soon, their Legal Advisors
will have told them to steer well clear of doing that and TBH I doubt any other Car Maker would either. I would however expect behind the mask that they are taking the issue very seriously and working hard to create a permanant fix. BMW value their brand very highly and won't be enjoying the unwanted attention.
Likewise it won't only be private vehicles that have / are being stolen, Dealers run huge fleets of loan cars and demo's not to mention hire companies and the Plod. I bet a few of those have gone missing by now. Rest assured the Dealers will be making their voices heard, Dealer Groups such as Sytner won't just sit back and watch New Car Sales decline without getting answers.
My name isn't Noel (Just share the initals)
I don't and never have worked for BMW
I have previously worked in a BMW Dealership.
BlueBaconBoy said:
Big disgrace. Why dont affected drivers drive to BMW HQ and do a blockade?
Probably because some theiving b
d has stolen their car? I know what you mean, couldnt resist.....Maybe try to get watchdog or something to video a handing back of keys as well? Take all the keys and give them back to HQ. Bit cheezy but those consumer report shows seem to froth on it.
I took my 525 into the local dealer yesterday to get the aircon fixed, and I asked the service desk guy about this problem. He genuinely seemed to know nothing about it, but did say that they had had 2 instances where customers had gone up to London, and stuff had been nicked from their locked cars - the cars were still locked when they returned. No sign of forced entry.
clockworks said:
I took my 525 into the local dealer yesterday to get the aircon fixed, and I asked the service desk guy about this problem. He genuinely seemed to know nothing about it, but did say that they had had 2 instances where customers had gone up to London, and stuff had been nicked from their locked cars - the cars were still locked when they returned. No sign of forced entry.
That's probably a good scam somewhere like london: Use a jammer to prevent the car remote locking, then help yourself to the stuff. Then program the car to their spare key*, and then lock the car. The owner will never know they walked off leaving the car unlocked.- (since it seems a car can have up to about 10 keys, but a key can be coded to any number of cars, as it's teh car that remebers a list of authorised key serial numbers or similar.)
currybum said:
The biggest security flaw isn’t that there is a dead spot in the interior alarm; it is the fact that you can code a new key without any form of central authorisation in just a few seconds.
It’s this fact that has caused so many cars to be stolen and the one that BMW has to address.
It means that a potential thief only needs access to your OBD port for 30 seconds for him take your car any time he wants, this could be done in a car park where the locking is jammed, when you are selling the car and they come to take a look and even when the car is being serviced.
Basically any time your car is open and you are not checking the driver’s side for people getting in…Petrol station, car wash..airport parking etc etc…your car could get pinched.
Agreed.It’s this fact that has caused so many cars to be stolen and the one that BMW has to address.
It means that a potential thief only needs access to your OBD port for 30 seconds for him take your car any time he wants, this could be done in a car park where the locking is jammed, when you are selling the car and they come to take a look and even when the car is being serviced.
Basically any time your car is open and you are not checking the driver’s side for people getting in…Petrol station, car wash..airport parking etc etc…your car could get pinched.
mrmr96 said:
clockworks said:
I took my 525 into the local dealer yesterday to get the aircon fixed, and I asked the service desk guy about this problem. He genuinely seemed to know nothing about it, but did say that they had had 2 instances where customers had gone up to London, and stuff had been nicked from their locked cars - the cars were still locked when they returned. No sign of forced entry.
That's probably a good scam somewhere like london: Use a jammer to prevent the car remote locking, then help yourself to the stuff. Then program the car to their spare key*, and then lock the car. The owner will never know they walked off leaving the car unlocked.- (since it seems a car can have up to about 10 keys, but a key can be coded to any number of cars, as it's teh car that remebers a list of authorised key serial numbers or similar.)
How often when returning to your car do you pay attention and check the car is still locked and make sure the car is actually being unlocked when you blip the remote? I'd suggest not much.
ncbbmw said:
How often when returning to your car do you pay attention and check the car is still locked and make sure the car is actually being unlocked when you blip the remote? I'd suggest not much.
All the time.I watch the lock thing go in or for the indicator flashes if locking, and the reverse when unlocking.
My car's indicators will not flash if they are already locked or unlocked.
Just had my car broken into a couple days ago in W1, London. 2011 M3...
Returned to my car in the morning to find both front windows down exactly the same amount (just over half way) as if opened by remote comfort access, and the doors unlocked. Oddly they only stole my interior dash and door trims (carbon fibre effect leather), air vents and my starter button, so I can't drive the car!
I have keyless access/go, and always lock the car by using the touch sensor on the door handle, so not affected by alarm blockers (I think...). The fact that both windows were lowered the same amount has me thinking they must have used some sort of remote access.
So far BMW acting as if clueless... Police officer said to me he had seen another similar incident recently but involving a Merc.
Returned to my car in the morning to find both front windows down exactly the same amount (just over half way) as if opened by remote comfort access, and the doors unlocked. Oddly they only stole my interior dash and door trims (carbon fibre effect leather), air vents and my starter button, so I can't drive the car!
I have keyless access/go, and always lock the car by using the touch sensor on the door handle, so not affected by alarm blockers (I think...). The fact that both windows were lowered the same amount has me thinking they must have used some sort of remote access.
So far BMW acting as if clueless... Police officer said to me he had seen another similar incident recently but involving a Merc.
sinizter said:
My car's indicators will not flash if they are already locked or unlocked.
This is one thing I hate on mine - it only flashes to show a locking, so when I unlock it from a short distance but don't hear locks I am never sure whether I locked it or just didn't hear it unlocksuh4il said:
Just had my car broken into a couple days ago in W1, London. 2011 M3...
Returned to my car in the morning to find both front windows down exactly the same amount (just over half way) as if opened by remote comfort access, and the doors unlocked. Oddly they only stole my interior dash and door trims (carbon fibre effect leather), air vents and my starter button, so I can't drive the car!
I have keyless access/go, and always lock the car by using the touch sensor on the door handle, so not affected by alarm blockers (I think...). The fact that both windows were lowered the same amount has me thinking they must have used some sort of remote access.
So far BMW acting as if clueless... Police officer said to me he had seen another similar incident recently but involving a Merc.
Sorry to hear......but you win this months top lurker award......Returned to my car in the morning to find both front windows down exactly the same amount (just over half way) as if opened by remote comfort access, and the doors unlocked. Oddly they only stole my interior dash and door trims (carbon fibre effect leather), air vents and my starter button, so I can't drive the car!
I have keyless access/go, and always lock the car by using the touch sensor on the door handle, so not affected by alarm blockers (I think...). The fact that both windows were lowered the same amount has me thinking they must have used some sort of remote access.
So far BMW acting as if clueless... Police officer said to me he had seen another similar incident recently but involving a Merc.
suh4il said:
Just had my car broken into a couple days ago in W1, London. 2011 M3...
Returned to my car in the morning to find both front windows down exactly the same amount (just over half way) as if opened by remote comfort access, and the doors unlocked. Oddly they only stole my interior dash and door trims (carbon fibre effect leather), air vents and my starter button, so I can't drive the car!
I have keyless access/go, and always lock the car by using the touch sensor on the door handle, so not affected by alarm blockers (I think...). The fact that both windows were lowered the same amount has me thinking they must have used some sort of remote access.
So far BMW acting as if clueless... Police officer said to me he had seen another similar incident recently but involving a Merc.
Based on what happened to others on here, if you are planning to keep it as soon as it's fixed disable the OBD and get a Disklock. There is nothing to say they havent already programmed a key and are just waiting for you to get it fixed so they can have double the parts.... Maybe worth asking the dealer to check if a key has been added while you are at it. Wont stop the theiving scum doing the same again, but you'll keep the car at least. Sorry to hear it and best of luck Returned to my car in the morning to find both front windows down exactly the same amount (just over half way) as if opened by remote comfort access, and the doors unlocked. Oddly they only stole my interior dash and door trims (carbon fibre effect leather), air vents and my starter button, so I can't drive the car!
I have keyless access/go, and always lock the car by using the touch sensor on the door handle, so not affected by alarm blockers (I think...). The fact that both windows were lowered the same amount has me thinking they must have used some sort of remote access.
So far BMW acting as if clueless... Police officer said to me he had seen another similar incident recently but involving a Merc.
I have had an insurance quote, been as my insurance is up in November and this would have given me time to sell if it was through the roof.
I am a business user so higher premiums, Last year nearly £900 this year just under £700.
My six points are up next year, so maybe this has impact, but none the less i am moving the OBD port, and keeping it.
I am a business user so higher premiums, Last year nearly £900 this year just under £700.
My six points are up next year, so maybe this has impact, but none the less i am moving the OBD port, and keeping it.
I had 2 BMW X5's stolen from London W9 in the last 6 months . The first car was never found even though it had a Tracker Horizon fitted to the car , the second car was found the same night that it went missing . The thieves had parked it up off the A1 waiting to see if I had a second tracker fitted to the car.
I have been on the case with BMW , they are an arrogant bunch of idiots , never offering any help , they even tried to make me sign a full and final settlement letter before they would do a software upgrade.
I dropped my car off at a main dealer to have the OBD disconnected , to my surprise the dealer told me that BMW had come up with a new software programme that will sort out the issues, my car was the first to have the upgrade, supposedly the upgrade stops keys being reprogrammed through the OBD.
I would advise you to call your local BMW main dealer and ask for the upgrade. BMW will start a marketing campaign in September highlighting the solution . Good luck .
I have been on the case with BMW , they are an arrogant bunch of idiots , never offering any help , they even tried to make me sign a full and final settlement letter before they would do a software upgrade.
I dropped my car off at a main dealer to have the OBD disconnected , to my surprise the dealer told me that BMW had come up with a new software programme that will sort out the issues, my car was the first to have the upgrade, supposedly the upgrade stops keys being reprogrammed through the OBD.
I would advise you to call your local BMW main dealer and ask for the upgrade. BMW will start a marketing campaign in September highlighting the solution . Good luck .
Possibly redundent now given the post above, but I emailed a friend in Thames Valley police and they are aware of the issue, to the extent that the (anti) burglary team have been sent pictures of the equipment the thieves are using so that they can identify and seize it during house raids. Apparently it's still rare outside of the two hotspots - there hasn't been a single reported theft using this method in Oxford for example.
This may well be because the thieves are using a limited number of stolen reprogramming tools that were issued to dealerships and not some generic software that can be used on any laptop.
This may well be because the thieves are using a limited number of stolen reprogramming tools that were issued to dealerships and not some generic software that can be used on any laptop.
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