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Big E 118

1,773 posts

54 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
neilkav said:
all i can can pass on is what i was told again last night by West Midlands CID. do not buy a BMW, they arent sure if someone from BMW or a main dealership is invloved in the thefts, but over 30 high end BMW's have been stolen from birmingham alone since January. what makes it worse is that the dealershps are still lying to new customers, my collegue went for a test drive this week in a 330i and was told that the thefts are just rumors and in no way can these cars get stolen without the keys. i'm sure thats illegal as CID told me they have been in commuication with BMW UK for over 6 months in connection with these thefts.
i'm actually going to contact the press to let them know about this BMW coverup.
Can you guys stop this thread please! I'm paranoid enough and have to peek out the window every hour to check on my car without all these stories making it worse. I may have to start sleeping in it now.....





c7xlg

545 posts

117 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
No offence intended, though my comment still stands. A sub £60K BMW is not high end in the scale of the BMW world, let along a £40K 3-series.

It does make an interesting talking point about the 'steal to order' and targeted theft markets appearing to be aiming at mid-range, or low end BMWs rather than the top end. Possibly as the top end are too rare to find, too rare to shift on or too liklely to have trackers fitted.

Cheib

9,007 posts

60 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
Just a thought to stop the jamming when you transmit the lock signal. I have Comfort Access on my E70 X5 and always lock my car by swiping my finger on the touch pad on the door handle....I wonder if that makes it harder for the thieves ? Given you need to be standing pretty close to the car for it to work presumably the signal the key emits is not strong enough for it to be "grabbed" ?

I am not really suprised BMW don't say anything publicly....they never have about anything like this. As an example for years BMW fitted locking wheels nuts which they knew offered no kind of deterrent to someone who wanted to steal your alloys as I know from personal experince.....they obviously never made owners aware....

Big E 118

1,773 posts

54 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
c7xlg said:
No offence intended, though my comment still stands. A sub £60K BMW is not high end in the scale of the BMW world, let along a £40K 3-series.
I presume the comment from the police was/meant to be more along the lines of "high end cars like BMW's".

We're all car enthusiasts on this site so what we consider an "average" price for a car is probably high end for a lot of non enthusiasts.

Munter

25,194 posts

126 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
Cheib said:
Just a thought to stop the jamming when you transmit the lock signal. I have Comfort Access on my E70 X5 and always lock my car by swiping my finger on the touch pad on the door handle....I wonder if that makes it harder for the thieves ? Given you need to be standing pretty close to the car for it to work presumably the signal the key emits is not strong enough for it to be "grabbed" ?
Not sure you have grasped the concept. The signal from the key is jammed. E.g. the weaker the signal from the key the mor likely it is to be affected by someone jamming it's signal. When you swipe how do you know the car is locked?

Now the other option would be that when the key is activated the crims "grab" the code from the signal. (No jamming involved). However the codes change each time the key is used, so they have to figure out what the next code will be.

Easier to just block the key and car from talking and walk up to an open car.

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stevesuk

420 posts

67 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
Munter said:
Welcome to a world where everybody is a powerfully built multimillionaire company director.
Fixed that for you hehe Glad my BMW is over 10 years old, probably not going to be stolen to order. Our E91 touring has the newer electronic key, but I doubt anyone is going to steal a 6 year old 325i petrol in SE spec, complete with mum-spec baby seat.

Edited by stevesuk on Thursday 8th March 12:01

Kudos

2,443 posts

59 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
edc said:
Stick a steering lock on?
I got burgled a few years back and someone stole keys to my Boxster which was sitting on driveway. Never took it as I had a steering lock on, although they did have a key for that as well. Presumably too much hassle?

I use one always now.

essayer

2,176 posts

79 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
Blimey, have we gone back to the days of needing a Crook Lock again?

Poor show from BMW. No excuse for making this sort of stuff easy for any noddy with a laptop.


Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

63 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
I find it hard to accept that all the recent modern BMW's stolen were 'jammed' first. Yes, it's possible but not pratical for all thefts imo.

neilkav

Original Poster:

32 posts

30 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
during my discussions with the police they have never mentioned jamming. the people already arrested had keys that were coded to the car's that were stolen, so they could open the doors and start the car at any time.

They wouldnt confirm it but did mention that it is a possibilty that blank keys are getting coded by someone at BMW who then sells it onto the thieves.

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

63 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
neilkav said:
They wouldnt confirm it but did mention that it is a possibilty that blank keys are getting coded by someone at BMW who then sells it onto the thieves.
It's happened before, and I reckon it's still happening now. An unsuspecting customer would never know how many keys actually exist for their car.

TheEnd

14,226 posts

73 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
If that's the case, it might be based on the older trick of getting a copied logbook, going to BMW and saying you've lost your key and showing your ownership details.

Previously, all the keys were coded in Germany and sent over, so if that has changed so that the dealer can program key blanks directly, that might be the method.

1

2,243 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
neilkav said:
during my discussions with the police they have never mentioned jamming. the people already arrested had keys that were coded to the car's that were stolen, so they could open the doors and start the car at any time.

They wouldnt confirm it but did mention that it is a possibilty that blank keys are getting coded by someone at BMW who then sells it onto the thieves.
Unless the police actually caught them in the act they would have a coded key which ever method they used to gain access. Once you're in the car, coding the key appears to be the easy part.

How they are gaining access in the first place is the interesting bit.

Can you recode an existing key or would they need to go to BMW and get a blank?

M3Charlie

534 posts

43 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
All a thief actually needs is a V5 registration doc and a form of ID to order a key from BMW. So they find the car they want, get their dodgy mates to get a fake V5 and ID. Walk into a BMW dealer and order the key. Couple of days later pick up new key and steal car. No coding of obd required just good old fashioned fake documents.

BE57 TOY

1,928 posts

32 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
M3Charlie said:
All a thief actually needs is a V5 registration doc and a form of ID to order a key from BMW. So they find the car they want, get their dodgy mates to get a fake V5 and ID. Walk into a BMW dealer and order the key. Couple of days later pick up new key and steal car. No coding of obd required just good old fashioned fake documents.
^^^ this.

I don't think it's jamming personally. If I leave my Audi unlocked after 30 seconds if the key isn't nearby it will automatically lock and alarm.

Munter

25,194 posts

126 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
BE57 TOY said:
^^^ this.

I don't think it's jamming personally. If I leave my Audi unlocked after 30 seconds if the key isn't nearby it will automatically lock and alarm.
Do you hang around for 30 seconds. I'm out of sight and around a corner after 15-20. If they are walking down the street 10 ft behind you all they need to do is open the door enough that it can't lock as they pass your car, barely even pausing. Then wait for you to really be out of sight before hopping in.

It does happen. Usually in car parks when you expect people to be "milling about" near cars, and where lots of cars come and go.

It seems more likely this is a simple false document type exercise I'll grant you. Or someone with access to the cars before they leave the dealers is knocking up keys from some dodgy supply of blanks.

daveknott5

647 posts

104 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
Big E 118 said:
Can you guys stop this thread please! I'm paranoid enough and have to peek out the window every hour to check on my car without all these stories making it worse. I may have to start sleeping in it now.....
Any car can be stolen by a determined enough thief. There's worse things to worry about in my opinion, just enjoy your car. If the worst happens, ce la vie

Cheib

9,007 posts

60 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
Munter said:
Cheib said:
Just a thought to stop the jamming when you transmit the lock signal. I have Comfort Access on my E70 X5 and always lock my car by swiping my finger on the touch pad on the door handle....I wonder if that makes it harder for the thieves ? Given you need to be standing pretty close to the car for it to work presumably the signal the key emits is not strong enough for it to be "grabbed" ?
Not sure you have grasped the concept. The signal from the key is jammed. E.g. the weaker the signal from the key the mor likely it is to be affected by someone jamming it's signal. When you swipe how do you know the car is locked?

Now the other option would be that when the key is activated the crims "grab" the code from the signal. (No jamming involved). However the codes change each time the key is used, so they have to figure out what the next code will be.

Easier to just block the key and car from talking and walk up to an open car.
I do understand the concept! When I swipe I know the car is locked because the locks lock and all the electrics turn off....both of which are pretty friggin obvious. I always check.....

Comfort access works by sensing the key is close to the car...so rather than the key transmitting a specific signal the car knows the key is close by and opens the lock when you grasp the handle. Be interesting to know how it works....I can't imagine the key is constantly transmitting as that would run the battery down.....I know the car has aerials built into it to sense the key....but that's pretty much all I do know.

aeropilot

8,812 posts

112 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th March 2012 quote quote all
I never walk away from mine until after I've actually heard the locks clunk shut.

But, ultimately, if pro thieves want it, they will have it.




Munter

25,194 posts

126 months

[news] 
Friday 9th March 2012 quote quote all
Cheib said:
Munter said:
Cheib said:
Just a thought to stop the jamming when you transmit the lock signal. I have Comfort Access on my E70 X5 and always lock my car by swiping my finger on the touch pad on the door handle....I wonder if that makes it harder for the thieves ? Given you need to be standing pretty close to the car for it to work presumably the signal the key emits is not strong enough for it to be "grabbed" ?
Not sure you have grasped the concept. The signal from the key is jammed. E.g. the weaker the signal from the key the mor likely it is to be affected by someone jamming it's signal. When you swipe how do you know the car is locked?

Now the other option would be that when the key is activated the crims "grab" the code from the signal. (No jamming involved). However the codes change each time the key is used, so they have to figure out what the next code will be.

Easier to just block the key and car from talking and walk up to an open car.
I do understand the concept! When I swipe I know the car is locked because the locks lock and all the electrics turn off....both of which are pretty friggin obvious. I always check.....

Comfort access works by sensing the key is close to the car...so rather than the key transmitting a specific signal the car knows the key is close by and opens the lock when you grasp the handle. Be interesting to know how it works....I can't imagine the key is constantly transmitting as that would run the battery down.....I know the car has aerials built into it to sense the key....but that's pretty much all I do know.
Sorry but you said a weak signal would be harder to grab, in relation to the concept of jamming. A)Jamming does not involve "grabbing" the signal or reading it in any way shape or form. and B)a weak signal is easier to jam.

on the 2nd item
Your only feedback to the car locking appears to be similar to those given by many cars. I asked how you know in case it was different. From your description it's not. So we can expect the same problems with cars being left unlocked. People do not seem to realise the lights didn't flash, and the locks didn't go clunk when they press the lock button. You may force yourself to check. (I know I try to). But many people clearly do not. They assume if the press the button it's worked. I see no reason why if people swipe they will not also simply assume it's worked in the same way. The question is how does the car react if you swipe and the signal from the key is jammed? Will it let anybody swipe to lock the car regardless of the key's signal or not?

I would think your key charges from the car, and "listens" constantly for your cars signal. When it's in range it'll transmit it's presence back to the car.

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