New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys
Discussion
Hello Mrpea
Well who really knows ? I have warrantywise ,I do like Quentin wilson for what its worth.
Thing is get the quote online and then come off DO NOT hit the buy button. They will then do the same as warrantydirect,you will get a phonecall "we have a special deal just for this week" I didnt except that either and I got an extra month,(the 2 year deal was £200 cheaper via the lucky me phonecall as against the website quote)
Its a horrendous way to do business but this is life in 2012 continuous ducking and diving.
Good luck,Pete
Well who really knows ? I have warrantywise ,I do like Quentin wilson for what its worth.
Thing is get the quote online and then come off DO NOT hit the buy button. They will then do the same as warrantydirect,you will get a phonecall "we have a special deal just for this week" I didnt except that either and I got an extra month,(the 2 year deal was £200 cheaper via the lucky me phonecall as against the website quote)
Its a horrendous way to do business but this is life in 2012 continuous ducking and diving.
Good luck,Pete
MrPeaPea said:
Just out of intrest what are your thoughts on placing window sticks on your cars with OBD disabled etc
(As I just did one for a friend)
Is this a good idea or bad idea ? some reason having seconds thoughts about it
It's a good idea. That's what I've got on my drivers window along with a few other measures. (As I just did one for a friend)
Is this a good idea or bad idea ? some reason having seconds thoughts about it
The thief will look at yours and hopefully move onto the next car. It's like having a non working burglar alarm box on your house. Put yourself in the shoes of a burglar. He would take one look and go to another house with no security
Edited by Mr Bimmer on Saturday 15th September 15:06
smashy said:
Ive got a simpler idea ....by a mercedes.
I wouldn't. See below. In fact having browsed that site I wouldn't buy a:Mercedes
BMW
Audi
Porsche
Ferrari
Lamborghini
VW
Skoda
SEAT
Range Rover
Opel/Vauxhall
Renaut
Volvo
Peugeot
Citroen
Toyota
Lexus
Ford
Nissan
Mazda
etc.
etc.
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i also thought of this idea 
which i like. but when it comes down to it im not trusting my car in the hands of a stick that may OR maynot work lol. no obd port = far safer
The thief will look at yours and hopefully move onto the next car. It's like having a non working burglar alarm box on your house. Put yourself in the shoes of a burglar. He would take one look and go to another house with no security
which i like. but when it comes down to it im not trusting my car in the hands of a stick that may OR maynot work lol. no obd port = far safer Mr Bimmer said:
MrPeaPea said:
Just out of intrest what are your thoughts on placing window sticks on your cars with OBD disabled etc
(As I just did one for a friend)
Is this a good idea or bad idea ? some reason having seconds thoughts about it
It's a good idea. That's what I've got on my drivers window along with a few other measures. (As I just did one for a friend)
Is this a good idea or bad idea ? some reason having seconds thoughts about it
The thief will look at yours and hopefully move onto the next car. It's like having a non working burglar alarm box on your house. Put yourself in the shoes of a burglar. He would take one look and go to another house with no security
Edited by Mr Bimmer on Saturday 15th September 15:06
Very frustrating that those who haven't followed (or understood) this thread think the problem is with the "live" OBD or the alarm system problems.
Over in the "general gassing" thread consensus is that it's the alarm that the problem, and that all cars can have keys coded to them via the OBD in this manner. Agent Orange - sorry but you're dead wrong in that respect. I know the "simontouch" site claims to have software to do it for other manufacturers, but the process is much more involved. On BMW's it's trivial with the correct device and a BMW key to hand. Any compatible BMW key - not a blank, not a spare, just any other BMW key. You can even code one key to multiple cars.
This is a BMW specific problem.
Over in the "general gassing" thread consensus is that it's the alarm that the problem, and that all cars can have keys coded to them via the OBD in this manner. Agent Orange - sorry but you're dead wrong in that respect. I know the "simontouch" site claims to have software to do it for other manufacturers, but the process is much more involved. On BMW's it's trivial with the correct device and a BMW key to hand. Any compatible BMW key - not a blank, not a spare, just any other BMW key. You can even code one key to multiple cars.
This is a BMW specific problem.
WeirdNeville said:
Very frustrating that those who haven't followed (or understood) this thread think the problem is with the "live" OBD or the alarm system problems.
Over in the "general gassing" thread consensus is that it's the alarm that the problem, and that all cars can have keys coded to them via the OBD in this manner. Agent Orange - sorry but you're dead wrong in that respect. I know the "simontouch" site claims to have software to do it for other manufacturers, but the process is much more involved. On BMW's it's trivial with the correct device and a BMW key to hand. Any compatible BMW key - not a blank, not a spare, just any other BMW key. You can even code one key to multiple cars.
This is a BMW specific problem.
I am wondering whether my alarm sounded when they drilled my lock off and sat inside the car and tried to steal it. Unfortunately the car was parked on the street and I wouldn't have heard it if it did go off. Over in the "general gassing" thread consensus is that it's the alarm that the problem, and that all cars can have keys coded to them via the OBD in this manner. Agent Orange - sorry but you're dead wrong in that respect. I know the "simontouch" site claims to have software to do it for other manufacturers, but the process is much more involved. On BMW's it's trivial with the correct device and a BMW key to hand. Any compatible BMW key - not a blank, not a spare, just any other BMW key. You can even code one key to multiple cars.
This is a BMW specific problem.
H all - does anyone know if there is any significance to them tampering with the wing mirror ? (could it disable the alarm?)
Looks like someone was trying to get into the back of my wing mirror in the early hours (10 plate Z4) and can't help thinking its linked to these thefts in some way, or am I being paranoid?
Cheers...
Looks like someone was trying to get into the back of my wing mirror in the early hours (10 plate Z4) and can't help thinking its linked to these thefts in some way, or am I being paranoid?
Cheers...
WeirdNeville said:
Very frustrating that those who haven't followed (or understood) this thread think the problem is with the "live" OBD or the alarm system problems.
Over in the "general gassing" thread consensus is that it's the alarm that the problem, and that all cars can have keys coded to them via the OBD in this manner. Agent Orange - sorry but you're dead wrong in that respect. I know the "simontouch" site claims to have software to do it for other manufacturers, but the process is much more involved. On BMW's it's trivial with the correct device and a BMW key to hand. Any compatible BMW key - not a blank, not a spare, just any other BMW key. You can even code one key to multiple cars.
This is a BMW specific problem.
I don't agree with this. Any sensible approach to security requires a holistic approach but the general thinking is that once physical access has been made all other bets are off and a device should be treated as compromised.Over in the "general gassing" thread consensus is that it's the alarm that the problem, and that all cars can have keys coded to them via the OBD in this manner. Agent Orange - sorry but you're dead wrong in that respect. I know the "simontouch" site claims to have software to do it for other manufacturers, but the process is much more involved. On BMW's it's trivial with the correct device and a BMW key to hand. Any compatible BMW key - not a blank, not a spare, just any other BMW key. You can even code one key to multiple cars.
This is a BMW specific problem.
The EOBD standards are what they are and all manufacturers need to be comply - whatever they are (eg. within 2ft of the steering whee). They know all about the port being live for Bloc Exemption purposes - the standards did not appear overnight. With that in mind it make sense to make sure the port is protected by some other system - namely the alarm.
The alarm should go off if the port is being accessed and the alarm is live. If it's a legit situation then it will be obvious what is going on when someone like the owner or plod assesses the situation visually. This is probably what BMW intended but they ballsed up on the alarm so the human check never happens.
In summary OBD-II is working as designed and in the expected manner, the alarm however is not.
You see, I disagree the other way: It shouldn't be possible to code a key to the car like it is.
A car with a 'modern' security system should be able to be left unlocked and there should be no way you can code a key to it with no prior knowledge, authentication or verification.
Thieves have been disabling alarms since the 80's, we are now in an era where they're coding keys to the car on the fly.
The fact remains that if it wasn't possible to code the key to the car, the alarm blackspot wouldn't be an issue because BMW's wouldn't be being targeted.
I'm not saying it's not a problem - it is - but it's not the primary security failing in my eyes (or the eyes of people internal to BMW).
A car with a 'modern' security system should be able to be left unlocked and there should be no way you can code a key to it with no prior knowledge, authentication or verification.
Thieves have been disabling alarms since the 80's, we are now in an era where they're coding keys to the car on the fly.
The fact remains that if it wasn't possible to code the key to the car, the alarm blackspot wouldn't be an issue because BMW's wouldn't be being targeted.
I'm not saying it's not a problem - it is - but it's not the primary security failing in my eyes (or the eyes of people internal to BMW).
So Saturday morning I got in my car and started it up. A message came up on the screen saying something like "the on board computer has been re-set, please set time and date".
Does this mean someone has accessed my car? Maybe set up a key and will take it at a later date? Nothing was broken, car was locked. Thoughts?
Does this mean someone has accessed my car? Maybe set up a key and will take it at a later date? Nothing was broken, car was locked. Thoughts?
Big E 118 said:
So Saturday morning I got in my car and started it up. A message came up on the screen saying something like "the on board computer has been re-set, please set time and date".
Does this mean someone has accessed my car? Maybe set up a key and will take it at a later date? Nothing was broken, car was locked. Thoughts?
That's just your battery starting to fail. Does this mean someone has accessed my car? Maybe set up a key and will take it at a later date? Nothing was broken, car was locked. Thoughts?
WeirdNeville said:
You see, I disagree the other way: It shouldn't be possible to code a key to the car like it is.
A car with a 'modern' security system should be able to be left unlocked and there should be no way you can code a key to it with no prior knowledge, authentication or verification.
Thieves have been disabling alarms since the 80's, we are now in an era where they're coding keys to the car on the fly.
The fact remains that if it wasn't possible to code the key to the car, the alarm blackspot wouldn't be an issue because BMW's wouldn't be being targeted.
I'm not saying it's not a problem - it is - but it's not the primary security failing in my eyes (or the eyes of people internal to BMW).
I don't disagree with your view but I think that the method and choice of security for the OBD port needs to be in addition to the alarm. A car with a 'modern' security system should be able to be left unlocked and there should be no way you can code a key to it with no prior knowledge, authentication or verification.
Thieves have been disabling alarms since the 80's, we are now in an era where they're coding keys to the car on the fly.
The fact remains that if it wasn't possible to code the key to the car, the alarm blackspot wouldn't be an issue because BMW's wouldn't be being targeted.
I'm not saying it's not a problem - it is - but it's not the primary security failing in my eyes (or the eyes of people internal to BMW).
The real answer is layered security (that works). What we have here is BMW doing the bare minimum for the OBD port and relying on an (incomptetent) alarm to protect against physical access. When taken as a whole, the system fails.
WeirdNeville is correct.
Any car alarm which has thatch am approval should NOT have a blind spot. The ODB port theft is one thing, granted technology moves on, thieves become cleverer. But to have an alarm void in a top marque brand, intact any brand is totally inexcusable.
The way they have handled this (BMW UK) to date is deplorable.
The really couldn't give a toss, a mate of mine has had his lifted now and after speaking to a CS Manager has now asked for a Subject Access Request file (Call recordings etc) because they keep changing their tune.
Absoute Arse Holes.
I think most people would be content with a reasonable financial contribution for those who have had the vehicle stolen, A) to beef up the vehicle security and B) to assist with increased insurance premiums and excess charges.
Any car alarm which has thatch am approval should NOT have a blind spot. The ODB port theft is one thing, granted technology moves on, thieves become cleverer. But to have an alarm void in a top marque brand, intact any brand is totally inexcusable.
The way they have handled this (BMW UK) to date is deplorable.
The really couldn't give a toss, a mate of mine has had his lifted now and after speaking to a CS Manager has now asked for a Subject Access Request file (Call recordings etc) because they keep changing their tune.
Absoute Arse Holes.
I think most people would be content with a reasonable financial contribution for those who have had the vehicle stolen, A) to beef up the vehicle security and B) to assist with increased insurance premiums and excess charges.
RK1D said:
H all - does anyone know if there is any significance to them tampering with the wing mirror ? (could it disable the alarm?)
Looks like someone was trying to get into the back of my wing mirror in the early hours (10 plate Z4) and can't help thinking its linked to these thefts in some way, or am I being paranoid?
Cheers...
I think someone was probably trying to nick your wing mirror, you cannot get into the car by taking the wing mirror off (unless your about 1cm tall Looks like someone was trying to get into the back of my wing mirror in the early hours (10 plate Z4) and can't help thinking its linked to these thefts in some way, or am I being paranoid?
Cheers...
).gangzoom said:
RK1D said:
H all - does anyone know if there is any significance to them tampering with the wing mirror ? (could it disable the alarm?)
Looks like someone was trying to get into the back of my wing mirror in the early hours (10 plate Z4) and can't help thinking its linked to these thefts in some way, or am I being paranoid?
Cheers...
I think someone was probably trying to nick your wing mirror, you cannot get into the car by taking the wing mirror off (unless your about 1cm tall Looks like someone was trying to get into the back of my wing mirror in the early hours (10 plate Z4) and can't help thinking its linked to these thefts in some way, or am I being paranoid?
Cheers...
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