New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys

[RK1D]

youngsyr said:

Oh right, I see. On the E9X series at least the "proper" way to remove the wing mirror involves removing the door card from the inside. However, if you're not bothered about wrecking the door/mirror, there's probably a way to do it from outside. Whether you can do it without setting the alarm off, or can access the OBD II once it's off, I don't know.

No-one on this thread has reported the wing mirror missing on their stolen recovered car and we do know there are other ways to get in, so I'm assuming the wing mirror issue is a red herring - perhaps someone nudged it when walking/driving past. I've even seen a drunk person kick one off a car he was passing for no apparent reason.

The car is parked on a driveway so it probably wasn't a passing drunk. Someone has actively tried to remove the cover - I as just asking if there was some link. Either way, someone has been in the garden tampering wry the car - so tonight I will move the OBD port and invest in a Disklock.....:-(

[dasbimmerowner]

Is the problem still mainly in Birmingham and the South East? (I don't want people to post where they've had trouble; but a county might help give a picture of how widespread this currently is).

[don'tbesilly]

Mr Bimmer said:

Folding mirrors are coded from the footwell module, so the mirror housings have no bearing on the thefts. (Afaik)

You would be surprised just how much activity the motion sensor misses. It really is quite burglar friendly.

That might be the case,but the mirrors are still controllable from my fob,which also works the door locks,so does it not make sense that the two are linked?

I know all about the motion sensors,you could knock one out in my car,and the alarm would not bat an eyelid

[youngsyr]

don'tbesilly said:

That might be the case,but the mirrors are still controllable from my fob,which also works the door locks,so does it not make sense that the two are linked?

I know all about the motion sensors,you could knock one out in my car,and the alarm would not bat an eyelid

The point is that the system is:

Control Fob -> ECU -> Door locks
...........................-> Wing mirrors

Not:

Control Fob -> Door locks
...............-> Wing mirrors

I.e. there is no direct link between your wing mirrors and doors, the signal to operate either will come via the ECU on a separate cable, so you would still have to go through the ECU to get to the door locks from the mirror fold signal cable.

[RK1D]

[don'tbesilly]

youngsyr said:

don'tbesilly said:

That might be the case,but the mirrors are still controllable from my fob,which also works the door locks,so does it not make sense that the two are linked?

I know all about the motion sensors,you could knock one out in my car,and the alarm would not bat an eyelid

The point is that the system is:

Control Fob -> ECU -> Door locks
...........................-> Wing mirrors

Not:

Control Fob -> Door locks
...............-> Wing mirrors

I.e. there is no direct link between your wing mirrors and doors, the signal to operate either will come via the ECU on a separate cable, so you would still have to go through the ECU to get to the door locks from the mirror fold signal cable.

Fair enough,I'll stop barking up the wrong tree now

[Gavstar]

So the fear of a revisit from these thieves is making me consider further security in addition to the steering lock I've now fitted.
What should I look for? Tracker? Any recommendations?

[MrPeaPea]

Gavstar said:

So the fear of a revisit from these thieves is making me consider further security in addition to the steering lock I've now fitted.
What should I look for? Tracker? Any recommendations?

Move the OBD
Diskloc
Disabled OBD stick on window
Third Party Alarm
Block it in at night if you have another car

[youngsyr]

MrPeaPea said:

Gavstar said:

So the fear of a revisit from these thieves is making me consider further security in addition to the steering lock I've now fitted.
What should I look for? Tracker? Any recommendations?

Move the OBD
Diskloc
Disabled OBD stick on window
Third Party Alarm
Block it in at night if you have another car

...erect 8ft high barb wire fences
stick up watch towers with spotlights



Isn't living in modern Britain great?

[t8cmf]

youngsyr said:

...erect 8ft high barb wire fences
stick up watch towers with spotlights



Isn't living in modern Britain great?

[JimmyTheHand]

contracttor said:

WeirdNeville said:

I don't agree with this. Any sensible approach to security requires a holistic approach but the general thinking is that once physical access has been made all other bets are off and a device should be treated as compromised.

As access to inside of a car isn't that difficult if you don't care about noise - i.e. brick through window and is often granted to people like tyre fitters, hand car wash access to the ODB port should be no different "security wise" to the WAN port on my router which the whole internet can access - i.e. I can allow you access to internal systems so designated and allow unlimited internal access via VPN if you have right authorisations. You can break in if you have enough resources to put into the attack but it may take a long time.

If properly protected the other choice is start physically removing/changing components in the car so that the access codes are known - but that should take a significant time/effort/cost to make it less desirable to the average thief.

[JimmyTheHand]

I couldn't see it mentioned in thread - but the issue has turned up in TheRegister (an IT new site if you aren't familiar with it)

[Kuroblack350]

Gavstar said:

So the fear of a revisit from these thieves is making me consider further security in addition to the steering lock I've now fitted.
What should I look for? Tracker? Any recommendations?

Probably on my own here but really don't see the point in a tracker. Even if it works why would you want your car back, it will in alll likelihood be damaged, ragged and part stripped looking for the tracker.

Get GAP policy for peanuts to make sure you're not out of pocket, and then buy something else surely?

[aeropilot]

Kuroblack350 said:

Gavstar said:

So the fear of a revisit from these thieves is making me consider further security in addition to the steering lock I've now fitted.
What should I look for? Tracker? Any recommendations?

Probably on my own here but really don't see the point in a tracker. Even if it works why would you want your car back, it will in alll likelihood be damaged, ragged and part stripped looking for the tracker.

Get GAP policy for peanuts to make sure you're not out of pocket, and then buy something else surely?

I take it you've not experienced having a car stolen then?

GAP will cover the car (until it runs out) but won't cover you for the extra insurance costs you'll incur after a full claim (especially if a big one)
I used to think the same as you, but now as someone that's had a car and a motorbike stolen, I'd now rather have the thing back and repaired and then sell earlier than planned, than to have to incur the costs of being shafted by the insurance companies after a big claim. Don't be fooled into to thinking GAP is a cure-all for not getting shafted by an insurance company for a big claim.

[gizard]

aeropilot said:

I take it you've not experienced having a car stolen then?

GAP will cover the car (until it runs out) but won't cover you for the extra insurance costs you'll incur after a full claim (especially if a big one)
I used to think the same as you, but now as someone that's had a car and a motorbike stolen, I'd now rather have the thing back and repaired and then sell earlier than planned, than to have to incur the costs of being shafted by the insurance companies after a big claim. Don't be fooled into to thinking GAP is a cure-all for not getting shafted by an insurance company for a big claim.

This is a very valid point - but begs the question is it worth having theft cover? - they either screw you for having a high risk car in the first place or screw you even more if it is stolen - you can't win!

[tedcatuk]

Well I for one am totaly fed up with BMW AGs take it or leave it attitude to its customers when they have real issues with thier cars.
The lack of a proper motion sensor that allows people to get to the obd in the car is just cost cutting in my view and will come back to bite BMW in the end, my currant car is my last BMW and I will join the many other people who seem to be buying other german makes.

[mrmr96]

JimmyTheHand said:

I couldn't see it mentioned in thread - but the issue has turned up in TheRegister (an IT new site if you aren't familiar with it)

El Reg said:

[Would-be car thieves need to grab the transmission between a valid key fob and a car before reprogramming a blank key, which can then be used to either open the car or start it, via the OBD system.

That link implies that the code can be grabbed out of the air. Which is at odds with my understanding, which was that access to the OBD socket was required. Has Reg got their facts wrong, or have we all been missing the point?

[ArsE92]

mrmr96 said:

JimmyTheHand said:

I couldn't see it mentioned in thread - but the issue has turned up in TheRegister (an IT new site if you aren't familiar with it)

El Reg said:

[Would-be car thieves need to grab the transmission between a valid key fob and a car before reprogramming a blank key, which can then be used to either open the car or start it, via the OBD system.

That link implies that the code can be grabbed out of the air. Which is at odds with my understanding, which was that access to the OBD socket was required. Has Reg got their facts wrong?

They also mention reprogramming a blank key. More bks.

[Cheib]

Just rang the BMW 0800 number to get the latest info....I have an E70 X5 owned from new which was registered in 2007 so comes under the recall.

I asked them why they hadn't contacted me given I bought the car new and the car is still covered by the extended warranty. After several evasive answers I was finally informed that the "fix" is not a recall but an "enhancement"....as such they do not need to issue a recall. Nice to know BMW are trying their very,very hardest not to actually look after their customers.

Just rang my dealer and asked the same question "YOU will be getting a recall letter".

Piss up/brewery.......

[WeirdNeville]

mrmr96 said:

That link implies that the code can be grabbed out of the air. Which is at odds with my understanding, which was that access to the OBD socket was required. Has Reg got their facts wrong, or have we all been missing the point?

That El Rreg article is almost but not quite completely bks. It's a shame because the technical and security details are very interesting ,and tha's normally a Reg stong point.

The codes aren't stolen from the air.
You don't need a 'blank' key.
The kit isn't '$30'

That aricle missed the point more than Michael Bay when he made pearl harbour.
It needed more research like that film needed more Cuba Gooding Junior.
Pearl Harbour sucked, and so does that article.