New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys
Discussion
The topic of BMW key cloning is discussed in detail in episode 370 of the technical podcast "Security Now" available through iTunes PodCasts or via http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm
Seems the problem is getting global attention.
SlowDriver
Seems the problem is getting global attention.
SlowDriver
SlowDriver said:
The topic of BMW key cloning is discussed in detail in episode 370 of the technical podcast "Security Now" available through iTunes PodCasts or via http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm
Seems the problem is getting global attention.
SlowDriver
Cheers. Starts about 1h 8m on this MP3Seems the problem is getting global attention.
SlowDriver
http://aolradio.podcast.aol.com/sn/sn0370.mp3
Haha, Pistonheads even gets a name check!
Edited by mrmr96 on Sunday 23 September 19:15
Boogsie said:
WeirdNeville, I've had my car stolen and recovered. It's a 56 plate september 06 registered M5 with comfort access.
I don't have it back yet, but I was told that the only damage is to the driver's window.
I called BMW after the initial watchdog show, but they categorically told me that the car was not at risk.
Within a week it was gone.
When I called them back and told them that I suspected that this was how it was taken based on the damage, they again told me that all of their testing showed that cars built prior to march 2007 were immune due to different systems.
Do you have proof that this method is effective on pre march 2007 cars, or do you have the equipment to prove that this method is effective on my car?
If so I will be extra annoyed with BMW as I had an opportunity to go out and get a steering lock which would probably have put of the theft, but they were so sure that it was not at risk that I didn't (more fool me...). I will sue them for my excess and increase in premium if it is actually at risk, but I'd need proof that it was taken using this method. To me, it seems clear that it was.
Yes and I had my 56 plate 335D whipped a few weeks ago, I think perhaps there is a bit of confusion with 2006 cars as its the borderline of when the new tech came in, logically though if you have push button start its not like they are going to have implemented a more secure solution that they then happened to make worse in 2007!I don't have it back yet, but I was told that the only damage is to the driver's window.
I called BMW after the initial watchdog show, but they categorically told me that the car was not at risk.
Within a week it was gone.
When I called them back and told them that I suspected that this was how it was taken based on the damage, they again told me that all of their testing showed that cars built prior to march 2007 were immune due to different systems.
Do you have proof that this method is effective on pre march 2007 cars, or do you have the equipment to prove that this method is effective on my car?
If so I will be extra annoyed with BMW as I had an opportunity to go out and get a steering lock which would probably have put of the theft, but they were so sure that it was not at risk that I didn't (more fool me...). I will sue them for my excess and increase in premium if it is actually at risk, but I'd need proof that it was taken using this method. To me, it seems clear that it was.
I have been having a email convo with BMW, and they have asked for my reg details to report back to their labs... while they haven't admitted it they seem to be accepting my car was stolen using this technique.
Boogsie said:
WeirdNeville, I've had my car stolen and recovered. It's a 56 plate september 06 registered M5 with comfort access.
I don't have it back yet, but I was told that the only damage is to the driver's window.
I called BMW after the initial watchdog show, but they categorically told me that the car was not at risk.
Within a week it was gone.
When I called them back and told them that I suspected that this was how it was taken based on the damage, they again told me that all of their testing showed that cars built prior to march 2007 were immune due to different systems.
Do you have proof that this method is effective on pre march 2007 cars, or do you have the equipment to prove that this method is effective on my car?
If so I will be extra annoyed with BMW as I had an opportunity to go out and get a steering lock which would probably have put of the theft, but they were so sure that it was not at risk that I didn't (more fool me...). I will sue them for my excess and increase in premium if it is actually at risk, but I'd need proof that it was taken using this method. To me, it seems clear that it was.
I'm not a lawyer, but for what it's worth, I believe the burden of proof is lower in a civil court (used when you sue) - you only need to show that it's more likely than not that your car was taken this way (i.e. you don't need absolute proof).I don't have it back yet, but I was told that the only damage is to the driver's window.
I called BMW after the initial watchdog show, but they categorically told me that the car was not at risk.
Within a week it was gone.
When I called them back and told them that I suspected that this was how it was taken based on the damage, they again told me that all of their testing showed that cars built prior to march 2007 were immune due to different systems.
Do you have proof that this method is effective on pre march 2007 cars, or do you have the equipment to prove that this method is effective on my car?
If so I will be extra annoyed with BMW as I had an opportunity to go out and get a steering lock which would probably have put of the theft, but they were so sure that it was not at risk that I didn't (more fool me...). I will sue them for my excess and increase in premium if it is actually at risk, but I'd need proof that it was taken using this method. To me, it seems clear that it was.
Benjycov said:
Boogsie said:
WeirdNeville, I've had my car stolen and recovered. It's a 56 plate september 06 registered M5 with comfort access.
I don't have it back yet, but I was told that the only damage is to the driver's window.
I called BMW after the initial watchdog show, but they categorically told me that the car was not at risk.
Within a week it was gone.
When I called them back and told them that I suspected that this was how it was taken based on the damage, they again told me that all of their testing showed that cars built prior to march 2007 were immune due to different systems.
Do you have proof that this method is effective on pre march 2007 cars, or do you have the equipment to prove that this method is effective on my car?
If so I will be extra annoyed with BMW as I had an opportunity to go out and get a steering lock which would probably have put of the theft, but they were so sure that it was not at risk that I didn't (more fool me...). I will sue them for my excess and increase in premium if it is actually at risk, but I'd need proof that it was taken using this method. To me, it seems clear that it was.
Yes and I had my 56 plate 335D whipped a few weeks ago, I think perhaps there is a bit of confusion with 2006 cars as its the borderline of when the new tech came in, logically though if you have push button start its not like they are going to have implemented a more secure solution that they then happened to make worse in 2007!I don't have it back yet, but I was told that the only damage is to the driver's window.
I called BMW after the initial watchdog show, but they categorically told me that the car was not at risk.
Within a week it was gone.
When I called them back and told them that I suspected that this was how it was taken based on the damage, they again told me that all of their testing showed that cars built prior to march 2007 were immune due to different systems.
Do you have proof that this method is effective on pre march 2007 cars, or do you have the equipment to prove that this method is effective on my car?
If so I will be extra annoyed with BMW as I had an opportunity to go out and get a steering lock which would probably have put of the theft, but they were so sure that it was not at risk that I didn't (more fool me...). I will sue them for my excess and increase in premium if it is actually at risk, but I'd need proof that it was taken using this method. To me, it seems clear that it was.
I have been having a email convo with BMW, and they have asked for my reg details to report back to their labs... while they haven't admitted it they seem to be accepting my car was stolen using this technique.
BMW told me via email that “I can confirm that vehicles produced before March 2007, have a different type of security system installed in the vehicle. They cannot be stolen by the particular method referred to in the media. Your BMW 3 Series falls into this category.”
According to BMW, my car is not steal-able using the new key method... hence not issuing an upgrade. My personal view is that BMW don’t want to write any new software for cars built before March 2007 as they doubt they will see them back in the workshops much, if at all.
bracken78 said:
Interesting to read this.
BMW told me via email that “I can confirm that vehicles produced before March 2007, have a different type of security system installed in the vehicle. They cannot be stolen by the particular method referred to in the media. Your BMW 3 Series falls into this category.”
According to BMW, my car is not steal-able using the new key method... hence not issuing an upgrade. My personal view is that BMW don’t want to write any new software for cars built before March 2007 as they doubt they will see them back in the workshops much, if at all.
Indeed. Will be an interesting point if true, as Watchdog would LOVE this kind of development on a story - i.e. BMW offering only to fix newer cars, and ignoring older cars which are similarly afflicted.BMW told me via email that “I can confirm that vehicles produced before March 2007, have a different type of security system installed in the vehicle. They cannot be stolen by the particular method referred to in the media. Your BMW 3 Series falls into this category.”
According to BMW, my car is not steal-able using the new key method... hence not issuing an upgrade. My personal view is that BMW don’t want to write any new software for cars built before March 2007 as they doubt they will see them back in the workshops much, if at all.
mrmr96 said:
Indeed. Will be an interesting point if true, as Watchdog would LOVE this kind of development on a story - i.e. BMW offering only to fix newer cars, and ignoring older cars which are similarly afflicted.
Do BMW really think they are able to treat owners with such contempt? Now the BBC and other media outlets are sniffing about this is going to become an even worse PR disaster, the more they try and wriggle out of it the worse it is going to get for them. Rung BMW the day after watchdog program was broadcast and was given the march 2007 story, rung again today and was given the same story and I explained that there is proof that earlier cars are also being stolen in the same method.
Bloke would not have it and was giving me all the thatcham security garbage etc etc, he soon stopped once I told him that I do not think much of their security if the window is smashed and the alarm does not go off and to make it worse you can get your hand inside and still no alarm is triggered.
I did mention to him that the conversation was being recorded and if my vehicle was stolen in this way I would hold them responsible, let us hope they are correct about the march 2007 as this will not go down well if this is untrue.
Bloke would not have it and was giving me all the thatcham security garbage etc etc, he soon stopped once I told him that I do not think much of their security if the window is smashed and the alarm does not go off and to make it worse you can get your hand inside and still no alarm is triggered.
I did mention to him that the conversation was being recorded and if my vehicle was stolen in this way I would hold them responsible, let us hope they are correct about the march 2007 as this will not go down well if this is untrue.
All conversations are recorded by BMW , all you need to do is ask for the reference number for your conversation . They will ask you for a cheque for £10.00 and send you a transcript of the conversation.
I have had 2 cars stolen. Back in July they offered me a software upgrade over the phone , when I went to the garage I called up to confirm the upgrade , they asked me to sign a full and final settlement letter before they would carry out the upgrade . I refused as it would have stopped me taking legal action in the future.
I asked for the conversation reference number as I was totally outraged that BMW would pull such a cheap trick!
I have had 2 cars stolen. Back in July they offered me a software upgrade over the phone , when I went to the garage I called up to confirm the upgrade , they asked me to sign a full and final settlement letter before they would carry out the upgrade . I refused as it would have stopped me taking legal action in the future.
I asked for the conversation reference number as I was totally outraged that BMW would pull such a cheap trick!
E92 M3 - STEERING WHEEL LOCK
Whilst we are waiting for BMW to confirm / deny the OBD fix; has anyone had any luck with a less bulky steering wheel lock than the Disklok model ?
I am not sure about othert models, but the M3 has a very thick steering wheel and I tried a couple of locks at Halfords recently and none fitted - even with the help of their expert technicians.
This M3 is without doubt the best car I have ever owned or driven, but lacklustre customer service and now this issue has really sapped my desire to purchase another BMW. Shame. Real shame.
Whilst we are waiting for BMW to confirm / deny the OBD fix; has anyone had any luck with a less bulky steering wheel lock than the Disklok model ?
I am not sure about othert models, but the M3 has a very thick steering wheel and I tried a couple of locks at Halfords recently and none fitted - even with the help of their expert technicians.
This M3 is without doubt the best car I have ever owned or driven, but lacklustre customer service and now this issue has really sapped my desire to purchase another BMW. Shame. Real shame.
Edited by MJP075 on Monday 24th September 21:20
GTSJOE said:
All conversations are recorded by BMW , all you need to do is ask for the reference number for your conversation . They will ask you for a cheque for £10.00 and send you a transcript of the conversation.
I have had 2 cars stolen. Back in July they offered me a software upgrade over the phone , when I went to the garage I called up to confirm the upgrade , they asked me to sign a full and final settlement letter before they would carry out the upgrade . I refused as it would have stopped me taking legal action in the future.
I asked for the conversation reference number as I was totally outraged that BMW would pull such a cheap trick!
Lol, if it's ok with you I'll keep my own recording too! (It's not like I don't trust them you know..!)I have had 2 cars stolen. Back in July they offered me a software upgrade over the phone , when I went to the garage I called up to confirm the upgrade , they asked me to sign a full and final settlement letter before they would carry out the upgrade . I refused as it would have stopped me taking legal action in the future.
I asked for the conversation reference number as I was totally outraged that BMW would pull such a cheap trick!
BMW THEFTS / OBD SYSTEM and VIPER ALARM
I just spoke to the BMW dealership we bought our M3 from and the first thing they said was that this is not a manufacturing fault and there is no vehicle recall - very well rehearsed. However, they did confirm that an ENHANCEMENT is currently available for X5 and X6 vehicles (well, from early October) and a similar enhancement SHOULD be available for other models in the next 5 to 6 weeks.
BMW were unable to confirm what models would benefit from the later enhancement, so it may well be 2013 before M3 owners can sleep at night !
I also spoke to SecureMyCar yesterday and they (Anthony) were very helpful indeed. Cost for the basic Viper system is £550, plus fitting and various extra sensors. Realistically I think you're looking at about £650 all in. Sadly we're planning to sell the car soon, otherwise I would DEFINITELY be making that investment ! !
I just spoke to the BMW dealership we bought our M3 from and the first thing they said was that this is not a manufacturing fault and there is no vehicle recall - very well rehearsed. However, they did confirm that an ENHANCEMENT is currently available for X5 and X6 vehicles (well, from early October) and a similar enhancement SHOULD be available for other models in the next 5 to 6 weeks.
BMW were unable to confirm what models would benefit from the later enhancement, so it may well be 2013 before M3 owners can sleep at night !
I also spoke to SecureMyCar yesterday and they (Anthony) were very helpful indeed. Cost for the basic Viper system is £550, plus fitting and various extra sensors. Realistically I think you're looking at about £650 all in. Sadly we're planning to sell the car soon, otherwise I would DEFINITELY be making that investment ! !
Hi all!!
Having kept a close eye on this thread recently - it appears my recent purchase of an M6 was in some ways good but other ways a bit of a risk.
The car was due to be garaged straight away but due to certain circumstances the car will be left overnight outside for the next few months. Looking at all the suggestions fellow board members have come up with, what are the best methods of preventing these sc*mbags taking my pride and joy??
1. Re-locating the OBD seems to scupper them in their tracks
2. I can also park the car well up against a wall (therefore they would have to break in the passenger side, meaning the alarm would trigger)
3. Is an expensive steering lock worth the agro of taking it on and off each time?
4. Would a tracker be money well spent, or better on a high security alarm?
Any suggestions are very well come and appreciated.
Ive rang my local BMW dealer and they have said they will be in touch once they have news from BMW UK with a fix/enhancement/software update.
Thanks Again chaps!
Having kept a close eye on this thread recently - it appears my recent purchase of an M6 was in some ways good but other ways a bit of a risk.
The car was due to be garaged straight away but due to certain circumstances the car will be left overnight outside for the next few months. Looking at all the suggestions fellow board members have come up with, what are the best methods of preventing these sc*mbags taking my pride and joy??
1. Re-locating the OBD seems to scupper them in their tracks
2. I can also park the car well up against a wall (therefore they would have to break in the passenger side, meaning the alarm would trigger)
3. Is an expensive steering lock worth the agro of taking it on and off each time?
4. Would a tracker be money well spent, or better on a high security alarm?
Any suggestions are very well come and appreciated.
Ive rang my local BMW dealer and they have said they will be in touch once they have news from BMW UK with a fix/enhancement/software update.
Thanks Again chaps!
thegreatdogwood said:
Cheib said:
Took my X5 in this morning for its "enhancement".....weight off my mind. Though it won't stop the f
kers trying as most cars won't have the update so they'll still try any car they find I suspect.
Mine is going in next week - did the dealer tell you what they actually did?kers trying as most cars won't have the update so they'll still try any car they find I suspect.Belliio said:
thegreatdogwood said:
Cheib said:
Took my X5 in this morning for its "enhancement".....weight off my mind. Though it won't stop the fkers trying as most cars won't have the update so they'll still try any car they find I suspect.
Mine is going in next week - did the dealer tell you what they actually did?kers trying as most cars won't have the update so they'll still try any car they find I suspect.I am picking my car up this evening as they ended up needing it overnight. I will ask but how much info they will give me.....in theory they shouldn't tell people so the scum cant find out.
Just received this from my insurer.
[i]Dear Reardy Mister,
You may have seen in the news recently that some BMW car models are unfortunately affected by a security flaw. As a customer and owner of a BMW we wanted to make you aware of this so you can take the necessary precautions and help prevent thefts of BMWs.
BMW has advised that the security breach only affects models which were built from 2006 to September 2011.
The security flaw lies with the electronic key. A device now exists which enables its user to access a car's on-board computer and program a blank key. In the wrong hands, a thief can steal a BMW in just a few minutes using the device.
How you can reduce the threat of car theft:
BMW has announced that they will offer a free upgrade of security features for cars affected. Therefore we would recommend that you contact your BMW service department or your nearest BMW dealer who will be able to advise you further.
Visit the BMW website to find out more.
Yours sincerely
swiftcover.com[/i]
The fuss we made as a motoring community has no doubt helped, we should be pleased about that. It does make me wonder what my insurers actual position is on it now. If I don't take it because my local stealer intends to charge a fortune, will they consider that I didn't take enough steps to protect my car?
[i]Dear Reardy Mister,
You may have seen in the news recently that some BMW car models are unfortunately affected by a security flaw. As a customer and owner of a BMW we wanted to make you aware of this so you can take the necessary precautions and help prevent thefts of BMWs.
BMW has advised that the security breach only affects models which were built from 2006 to September 2011.
The security flaw lies with the electronic key. A device now exists which enables its user to access a car's on-board computer and program a blank key. In the wrong hands, a thief can steal a BMW in just a few minutes using the device.
How you can reduce the threat of car theft:
BMW has announced that they will offer a free upgrade of security features for cars affected. Therefore we would recommend that you contact your BMW service department or your nearest BMW dealer who will be able to advise you further.
Visit the BMW website to find out more.
Yours sincerely
swiftcover.com[/i]
The fuss we made as a motoring community has no doubt helped, we should be pleased about that. It does make me wonder what my insurers actual position is on it now. If I don't take it because my local stealer intends to charge a fortune, will they consider that I didn't take enough steps to protect my car?
Edited by Reardy Mister on Wednesday 26th September 09:11
JoeShaw said:
Hi all!!
Having kept a close eye on this thread recently - it appears my recent purchase of an M6 was in some ways good but other ways a bit of a risk.
The car was due to be garaged straight away but due to certain circumstances the car will be left overnight outside for the next few months. Looking at all the suggestions fellow board members have come up with, what are the best methods of preventing these sc*mbags taking my pride and joy??
1. Re-locating the OBD seems to scupper them in their tracks
2. I can also park the car well up against a wall (therefore they would have to break in the passenger side, meaning the alarm would trigger)
3. Is an expensive steering lock worth the agro of taking it on and off each time?
4. Would a tracker be money well spent, or better on a high security alarm?
Any suggestions are very well come and appreciated.
Ive rang my local BMW dealer and they have said they will be in touch once they have news from BMW UK with a fix/enhancement/software update.
Thanks Again chaps!
The disklok is worth the money in my opinion as it also works as a visual deterrent.Having kept a close eye on this thread recently - it appears my recent purchase of an M6 was in some ways good but other ways a bit of a risk.
The car was due to be garaged straight away but due to certain circumstances the car will be left overnight outside for the next few months. Looking at all the suggestions fellow board members have come up with, what are the best methods of preventing these sc*mbags taking my pride and joy??
1. Re-locating the OBD seems to scupper them in their tracks
2. I can also park the car well up against a wall (therefore they would have to break in the passenger side, meaning the alarm would trigger)
3. Is an expensive steering lock worth the agro of taking it on and off each time?
4. Would a tracker be money well spent, or better on a high security alarm?
Any suggestions are very well come and appreciated.
Ive rang my local BMW dealer and they have said they will be in touch once they have news from BMW UK with a fix/enhancement/software update.
Thanks Again chaps!
Once you get the hang of it you will be able to put it on and off in seconds, mine lives in the boot when I am driving.
I am lucky in the fact that I had bought it for my e46 many years ago when there was a storm of car thefts around my area.
I am presuming that if they try and remove it, their arm would come into the area where the alarm SHOULD be triggered.
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