New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys
Discussion
youngsyr said:
paulmoonraker said:
This type of crime is 'organised'. Don't make the mistake of thinking they don't weigh up risk, check cars out before hand, and are generally unintelligent. I would guess that the amount of opportunistic theft is quite low using this key cloning technique.
I don't think they're unorganised, not even for a second. They know exactly what they're doing, which is unfortunately why I suggest making it abundently clear that your car isn't a soft target whenever it's vulnerable.Stickers and blanked locks on their own won't hold these guys up for more than a few seconds.
paulmoonraker said:
youngsyr said:
paulmoonraker said:
This type of crime is 'organised'. Don't make the mistake of thinking they don't weigh up risk, check cars out before hand, and are generally unintelligent. I would guess that the amount of opportunistic theft is quite low using this key cloning technique.
I don't think they're unorganised, not even for a second. They know exactly what they're doing, which is unfortunately why I suggest making it abundently clear that your car isn't a soft target whenever it's vulnerable.Stickers and blanked locks on their own won't hold these guys up for more than a few seconds.
Like I wrote, my opinioin is that these guys know what they are doing and know that the risks to them are minimal. The rewards for them are substantial, so superficial upgrades will not deter them from trying to take certain cars and making a mess of them in the process, even if they ultimately can't steal them.
I've said my piece though, please feel free to take or leave my advice. I'm betting the guys that have had their car broken into wish they could have taken it though.
youngsyr said:
paulmoonraker said:
youngsyr said:
paulmoonraker said:
This type of crime is 'organised'. Don't make the mistake of thinking they don't weigh up risk, check cars out before hand, and are generally unintelligent. I would guess that the amount of opportunistic theft is quite low using this key cloning technique.
I don't think they're unorganised, not even for a second. They know exactly what they're doing, which is unfortunately why I suggest making it abundently clear that your car isn't a soft target whenever it's vulnerable.Stickers and blanked locks on their own won't hold these guys up for more than a few seconds.
Like I wrote, my opinioin is that these guys know what they are doing and know that the risks to them are minimal. The rewards for them are substantial, so superficial upgrades will not deter them from trying to take certain cars and making a mess of them in the process, even if they ultimately can't steal them.
I've said my piece though, please feel free to take or leave my advice. I'm betting the guys that have had their car broken into wish they could have taken it though.
Also, we love talking this stuff up on forums. Insurance renewals would suggest that this issue is not as widespread as we think, and that also, its not actually changed the number that are being stolen and the resultant statistics for brand. What it has done is change the way they are being stolen.
In actual fact, whilst a car may get damaged through a failed attempt at theft, they are then hopefully less likely to break into a house for the keys. Therefore, if the fix by BMW does indeed work (or our own various fixes), then you may actually see a slight decline in the number of successful thefts.
Edited by paulmoonraker on Wednesday 3rd April 13:36
paulmoonraker said:
youngsyr said:
paulmoonraker said:
youngsyr said:
paulmoonraker said:
This type of crime is 'organised'. Don't make the mistake of thinking they don't weigh up risk, check cars out before hand, and are generally unintelligent. I would guess that the amount of opportunistic theft is quite low using this key cloning technique.
I don't think they're unorganised, not even for a second. They know exactly what they're doing, which is unfortunately why I suggest making it abundently clear that your car isn't a soft target whenever it's vulnerable.Stickers and blanked locks on their own won't hold these guys up for more than a few seconds.
Like I wrote, my opinioin is that these guys know what they are doing and know that the risks to them are minimal. The rewards for them are substantial, so superficial upgrades will not deter them from trying to take certain cars and making a mess of them in the process, even if they ultimately can't steal them.
I've said my piece though, please feel free to take or leave my advice. I'm betting the guys that have had their car broken into wish they could have taken it though.
Also, we love talking this stuff up on forums. Insurance renewals would suggest that this issue is not as widespread as we think, and that also, its not actually changed the number that are being stolen and the resultant statistics for brand. What it has done is change the way they are being stolen.
In actual fact, whilst a car may get damaged through a failed attempt at theft, they are then hopefully less likely to break into a house for the keys. Therefore, if the fix by BMW does indeed work (or our own various fixes), then you may actually see a slight decline in the number of successful thefts.
Edited by paulmoonraker on Wednesday 3rd April 13:36
High spec E series BMWs would make up just a few thousand, but say 10,000 - that's 0.1% of all cars on the road.
If 25% of those BMWs are stolen, that's 0.025% of the total car ownership and it would be safe to assume that there would be at least a partially offsetting drop in thefts of other marques, so say the say that increases total thefts by 0.015% of the total car population.
Given those hypothetical numbers, there is only a negligible blip in thefts, but 1 in 4 high spec beemers are stolen. So, you can see how statistics across a large population can hide the reality for a small sub-section.
Of course, you would expect the insurance companies to pick up on this and divide the car owning population into smaller sub-sections and some definitely have (hence them sending reminders to owners to get the security update done). However, we haven't seen increased premiums yet, perhaps because it is just a tiny blip in the large population and is limited to very specific cars in very specific locations.
youngsyr said:
paulmoonraker said:
youngsyr said:
paulmoonraker said:
youngsyr said:
paulmoonraker said:
This type of crime is 'organised'. Don't make the mistake of thinking they don't weigh up risk, check cars out before hand, and are generally unintelligent. I would guess that the amount of opportunistic theft is quite low using this key cloning technique.
I don't think they're unorganised, not even for a second. They know exactly what they're doing, which is unfortunately why I suggest making it abundently clear that your car isn't a soft target whenever it's vulnerable.Stickers and blanked locks on their own won't hold these guys up for more than a few seconds.
Like I wrote, my opinioin is that these guys know what they are doing and know that the risks to them are minimal. The rewards for them are substantial, so superficial upgrades will not deter them from trying to take certain cars and making a mess of them in the process, even if they ultimately can't steal them.
I've said my piece though, please feel free to take or leave my advice. I'm betting the guys that have had their car broken into wish they could have taken it though.
Also, we love talking this stuff up on forums. Insurance renewals would suggest that this issue is not as widespread as we think, and that also, its not actually changed the number that are being stolen and the resultant statistics for brand. What it has done is change the way they are being stolen.
In actual fact, whilst a car may get damaged through a failed attempt at theft, they are then hopefully less likely to break into a house for the keys. Therefore, if the fix by BMW does indeed work (or our own various fixes), then you may actually see a slight decline in the number of successful thefts.
Edited by paulmoonraker on Wednesday 3rd April 13:36
High spec E series BMWs would make up just a few thousand, but say 10,000 - that's 0.1% of all cars on the road.
If 25% of those BMWs are stolen, that's 0.025% of the total car ownership and it would be safe to assume that there would be at least a partially offsetting drop in thefts of other marques, so say the say that increases total thefts by 0.015% of the total car population.
Given those hypothetical numbers, there is only a negligible blip in thefts, but 1 in 4 high spec beemers are stolen. So, you can see how statistics across a large population can hide the reality for a small sub-section.
Of course, you would expect the insurance companies to pick up on this and divide the car owning population into smaller sub-sections and some definitely have (hence them sending reminders to owners to get the security update done). However, we haven't seen increased premiums yet, perhaps because it is just a tiny blip in the large population and is limited to very specific cars in very specific locations.
paulmoonraker said:
Fair point, and yes, the reality for high spec cars can be hidden... Is 1 in 4 a reality for high spec BMW's? And if so, is that M-sport cars, M cars, or what?
No, I hope it's vastly overstated, but I used that figure to illustrate the point. Even a relatively high proportion of a subset of cars is a drop in the ocean of other cars currently in the UK.
Not sure what percentage of BMW are insured under Admiral (Elephant is the same group i think?) but.. once my car insurance company stopped treating my theft as dodgy (after the car was found in a tree with a gun in it after an armed robbery) the girl told me:
"its an industry problem, we are not talking about it until we know exactly what we can do about it. We see 2-3 a day just in the theft department at Admiral".
Not sure how accurate it is, but she had no reason to tell me porkies and i guess shouldnt have said this at all... if true it seems to me that there must be lots of thefts across all insured cars.
"its an industry problem, we are not talking about it until we know exactly what we can do about it. We see 2-3 a day just in the theft department at Admiral".
Not sure how accurate it is, but she had no reason to tell me porkies and i guess shouldnt have said this at all... if true it seems to me that there must be lots of thefts across all insured cars.
LostE90 said:
Not sure what percentage of BMW are insured under Admiral (Elephant is the same group i think?) but.. once my car insurance company stopped treating my theft as dodgy (after the car was found in a tree with a gun in it after an armed robbery) the girl told me:
"its an industry problem, we are not talking about it until we know exactly what we can do about it. We see 2-3 a day just in the theft department at Admiral".
Not sure how accurate it is, but she had no reason to tell me porkies and i guess shouldnt have said this at all... if true it seems to me that there must be lots of thefts across all insured cars.
Put it this way, a friend of mine works in the Burglary department for a UK police force (not for one of the main areas affected) and they were given pictures of the kit used by car thieves so they could recognise if they came across it in a search. Note - he wasn't even in the car crime department or in a high risk area and he'd been put on alert about it."its an industry problem, we are not talking about it until we know exactly what we can do about it. We see 2-3 a day just in the theft department at Admiral".
Not sure how accurate it is, but she had no reason to tell me porkies and i guess shouldnt have said this at all... if true it seems to me that there must be lots of thefts across all insured cars.
The police have also put up warnings posters specifically mentioning BMWs in hot spots.
This is not just a few random cars going missing.
youngsyr said:
LostE90 said:
Not sure what percentage of BMW are insured under Admiral (Elephant is the same group i think?) but.. once my car insurance company stopped treating my theft as dodgy (after the car was found in a tree with a gun in it after an armed robbery) the girl told me:
"its an industry problem, we are not talking about it until we know exactly what we can do about it. We see 2-3 a day just in the theft department at Admiral".
Not sure how accurate it is, but she had no reason to tell me porkies and i guess shouldnt have said this at all... if true it seems to me that there must be lots of thefts across all insured cars.
Put it this way, a friend of mine works in the Burglary department for a UK police force (not for one of the main areas affected) and they were given pictures of the kit used by car thieves so they could recognise if they came across it in a search. Note - he wasn't even in the car crime department or in a high risk area and he'd been put on alert about it."its an industry problem, we are not talking about it until we know exactly what we can do about it. We see 2-3 a day just in the theft department at Admiral".
Not sure how accurate it is, but she had no reason to tell me porkies and i guess shouldnt have said this at all... if true it seems to me that there must be lots of thefts across all insured cars.
The police have also put up warnings posters specifically mentioning BMWs in hot spots.
This is not just a few random cars going missing.
And yet we are still seeing BMW refuse to admit the extent of the problem and BMW's disappearing steadily. Yet this thread has been running since 6/03/2012 and more than a year later the problem still continues in some volume. The thread has manage to get newspaper articles and TV reporting via watchdog and a fair extent of media coverage. But clearly the problem with BMW's is still there.
I regret to say it may well be that BMW are so well ensconced in the hierarchy of motoring that nothing they fudge or fail to do will be reported or admitted in the media. It would seem that this appalling lack of service from BMW can indeed be ignored by BMW. Which presumably was and remains their plan. Pity.
Wills2 said:
My M3 was built August 2012, will it need the "dealer fix" it still has working comfort access i.e hold the button and it opens/closes the windows?
Pull the actual key out of the Fob and try turning it to the right. Your window shouldn't dropHolding the fob button down is the same for pre and post update
Mr Bimmer said:
Wills2 said:
My M3 was built August 2012, will it need the "dealer fix" it still has working comfort access i.e hold the button and it opens/closes the windows?
Pull the actual key out of the Fob and try turning it to the right. Your window shouldn't dropHolding the fob button down is the same for pre and post update
I just had the unpleasant experience of having to deal with an unsuccessful obd port theft on my bmw. I found the car with the lock smashed, the windows down and the obd port cover off, with the car fully rummaged through for valuables. No other damage, and, for whatever reason, the car was not stolen. No-one heard an alarm go off.
BMW have now fixed the security system all round and applied the fix, however, am still left feeling uncomfortable that the theives will try again. How will they know the obd has now had the fix or not? I have added a steering lock. I may also get a car cover.
Have read in various forums that disabling the obd port itself is a deterrent, but presuambly is not required if bmw have applied the security fix? But it's still the same issue, even if I somehow move the obd port or play tricks with the fuses, the car may still get damaged in an attempt.
BMW have now fixed the security system all round and applied the fix, however, am still left feeling uncomfortable that the theives will try again. How will they know the obd has now had the fix or not? I have added a steering lock. I may also get a car cover.
Have read in various forums that disabling the obd port itself is a deterrent, but presuambly is not required if bmw have applied the security fix? But it's still the same issue, even if I somehow move the obd port or play tricks with the fuses, the car may still get damaged in an attempt.
Edited by alexkyriak on Saturday 6th April 19:56
alexkyriak said:
I just had the unpleasant experience of having to deal with an unsuccessful obd port theft on my bmw. I found the car with the lock smashed, the windows down and the obd port cover off, with the car fully rummaged through for valuables. No other damage, and, for whatever reason, the car was not stolen. No-one heard an alarm go off.
BMW have now fixed the security system all round and applied the fix, however, am still left feeling uncomfortable that the theives will try again. How will they know the obd has now had the fix or not? I have added a steering lock. I may also get a car cover.
Have read in various forums that disabling the obd port itself is a deterrent, but presuambly is not required if bmw have applied the security fix? But it's still the same issue, even if I somehow move the obd port or play tricks with the fuses, the car may still get damaged in an attempt.
It is of course entirely a matter of personal choice which car you buy. Given the content of that post I am surprised that the affected owners continue with BMW.BMW have now fixed the security system all round and applied the fix, however, am still left feeling uncomfortable that the theives will try again. How will they know the obd has now had the fix or not? I have added a steering lock. I may also get a car cover.
Have read in various forums that disabling the obd port itself is a deterrent, but presuambly is not required if bmw have applied the security fix? But it's still the same issue, even if I somehow move the obd port or play tricks with the fuses, the car may still get damaged in an attempt.
Edited by alexkyriak on Saturday 6th April 19:56
r swt
alexkyriak said:
Sure. But you're assuming I knew about this when I bought it.
I am not in any way criticising your purchase. I am surprised that some BMW owners have replaced their stolen BMW with another BMW. Given the extent of the inherent weakness in even the latest security, that does surprise me. It is of course the scrotes who steal the cars who need stopping but that seems unlikely in the UK today.Steffan said:
r swt
So what are the alternatives if you want a prestige rwd car with a bit of poke, practicality and well built?alexkyriak said:
Sure. But you're assuming I knew about this when I bought it.
I am not in any way criticising your purchase. I am surprised that some BMW owners have replaced their stolen BMW with another BMW. Given the extent of the inherent weakness in even the latest security, that does surprise me. It is of course the scrotes who steal the cars who need stopping but that seems unlikely in the UK today.You can't get away from the fact that security blemish aside, BMW build some stunning cars.
Edited by Helicopter123 on Sunday 7th April 12:55
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