New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys
Discussion
Woke up to find my 2010 40d X5 gone this morning. It's an LCI model and supposedly had the security update from BMW done before I bought it last year. No glass on the ground, no noise, just gone. My bedroom window was open and the car was about 15m from the house.
What method would they have used for this model with the updates? Royally pissed off especially as my daughter's car seat and ISOFIX base plus pram were in there
What method would they have used for this model with the updates? Royally pissed off especially as my daughter's car seat and ISOFIX base plus pram were in there
The Stiglet said:
Woke up to find my 2010 40d X5 gone this morning. It's an LCI model and supposedly had the security update from BMW done before I bought it last year. No glass on the ground, no noise, just gone. My bedroom window was open and the car was about 15m from the house.
What method would they have used for this model with the updates? Royally pissed off especially as my daughter's car seat and ISOFIX base plus pram were in there
Awful thing to happen the shock must be horrible What method would they have used for this model with the updates? Royally pissed off especially as my daughter's car seat and ISOFIX base plus pram were in there
Where were your Fobs? They can suck the info out of them by standing up to 50 mtrs away I believe with some software,
Hence my spare is wrapped in Aluminium ,and the one I use is put in an aluminium wallet from Amazon plus I religiously every single time put my DiskLok(named brand) on the car
smashy said:
Awful thing to happen the shock must be horrible
Where were your Fobs? They can suck the info out of them by standing up to 50 mtrs away I believe with some software,
Hence my spare is wrapped in Aluminium ,and the one I use is put in an aluminium wallet from Amazon plus I religiously every single time put my DiskLok(named brand) on the car
Thanks Smashy. I'm okay but the wife is a little shocked and shaken. It could have been much worse if they had broken into the house so there's always an upside!Where were your Fobs? They can suck the info out of them by standing up to 50 mtrs away I believe with some software,
Hence my spare is wrapped in Aluminium ,and the one I use is put in an aluminium wallet from Amazon plus I religiously every single time put my DiskLok(named brand) on the car
Main key in the basement and secondary in the attic. But 50 metres would cover that so they 'scanned' them and opened the car? Then presumably used the OBD port to programme a new key and start the car? I get the second part but didn't realise that they could just open the car without any form of forced entry as I didn't have comfort access.
I am genuinely sorry for any owners who have had their cars taken. I've been burgled three times and it's disturbing and upsetting. But it is worth bearing a few things in mind.
Car thefts are level to reducing slightly at around 80,000 per year. Which is down a long way from the old days when they were really easy to take. The 'Top Ten' stolen cars account for a disproportionate amount of thefts - these are predominantly SUVs: X5, Q7, Range Rover, Discovery and Mitsubishi. The others are the S3, BMW 5 Series and (oddly) the Ford Fiesta. Of the Top Ten the #1 is stolen at double the rate of the rest - around 5.5%-5.8% of all stolen vehicles. The 2015 #1 was the X5 (and for a few years previously) and in 2016 it was replaced the Audi S3.
BMWs get a bad name among the police because if you add the notorious X5 numbers to various models of the 5 Series they account for the largest proportion of all stolen cars. Hence many police advise people "don't get a BMW" which really should be "Don't get an X5, or a perfromance 5 Series" But really it should be "Don't get an SUV or an S3 or a performance 5 Series or a Fiesta" All the rest of come way behind.
Cars parked on a drive are twice as likely to be stolen as one parked randomly on the street, and three times more likely to be stolen than one parked in a secure garage. (So if your garage is stuffed with junk it is really, really worth the effort of clearing it and putting your car there.). On average the majority of stolen cars are not recovered.
Police Annual Reports for 2015 and 2016 say that nowadays, the majority of performance/luxury car thefts are by professional gangs stealing 'to order'. With a shopping list of cars from their contacts, they will survey an area, target candidate cars and then spend time monitoring them. They don't like confrontation and don't want their sub-contractors who do the actual theft to get caught. They have a repertoire of techniques they'll use, of which physically breaking-in is the last resort. But they will do this if there's no other option. Krooklocks, Faraday Bags, etc are little or no deterrent.
In particular, having Comfort Access does not significantly increase the odds of a theft. Not having comfort access does not significantly reduce the odds of a theft. You have been targeted, been under surveillance, and they have the means. Mail Online CCTV recordings of electronic key cloning (if that's what they actually represent) are good clickbait but not statistically significant given 80,000 thefts/year. Corellation is not causation - a lot of stolen cars have comfort access but that's not why they were stolen. They were already targetted and would be taken, whatever.
The informed police advice is (1) location: Garage the car if at all possible. If you can't, put it on the street randomly. Keeping it on the drive immediately identifies where the keys are kept. (2) Keep keys downstairs somewhere away from the front door, out of sight but not so well-hidden that nutter thieves are forced to beat the location out of you (3) House Access: Be sensitive to anyone with access to your house. Meter readers. Gas/Electric/Water supplier engineers. Anyone you keep standing at the door while you go and get someone/thing. If you're having building work done on the house then keep your key store location under wraps [most builders are more than honest but a. they often use casual subcontractors and b.the front door is more likely to be left open] (4) Be particularly concerned if you lose track of a set of keys, even it they magically reappear a few days later, and especially if this coincides with meter readers, building work, or any unsolicited visitor (see final para.).
There is a lot of evidence that professionals are increasingly copying/cloning keys. The ideal, least-risk for them is to get hold of your keys and copy/clone them ASAP then return them. Hence the advice (3) above. Then they can confirm the buyer for the car, and return around 3-4am a few days later, and quietly take the vehicle, giving them plenty of time to get away before you get up and notice.
Car thefts are level to reducing slightly at around 80,000 per year. Which is down a long way from the old days when they were really easy to take. The 'Top Ten' stolen cars account for a disproportionate amount of thefts - these are predominantly SUVs: X5, Q7, Range Rover, Discovery and Mitsubishi. The others are the S3, BMW 5 Series and (oddly) the Ford Fiesta. Of the Top Ten the #1 is stolen at double the rate of the rest - around 5.5%-5.8% of all stolen vehicles. The 2015 #1 was the X5 (and for a few years previously) and in 2016 it was replaced the Audi S3.
BMWs get a bad name among the police because if you add the notorious X5 numbers to various models of the 5 Series they account for the largest proportion of all stolen cars. Hence many police advise people "don't get a BMW" which really should be "Don't get an X5, or a perfromance 5 Series" But really it should be "Don't get an SUV or an S3 or a performance 5 Series or a Fiesta" All the rest of come way behind.
Cars parked on a drive are twice as likely to be stolen as one parked randomly on the street, and three times more likely to be stolen than one parked in a secure garage. (So if your garage is stuffed with junk it is really, really worth the effort of clearing it and putting your car there.). On average the majority of stolen cars are not recovered.
Police Annual Reports for 2015 and 2016 say that nowadays, the majority of performance/luxury car thefts are by professional gangs stealing 'to order'. With a shopping list of cars from their contacts, they will survey an area, target candidate cars and then spend time monitoring them. They don't like confrontation and don't want their sub-contractors who do the actual theft to get caught. They have a repertoire of techniques they'll use, of which physically breaking-in is the last resort. But they will do this if there's no other option. Krooklocks, Faraday Bags, etc are little or no deterrent.
In particular, having Comfort Access does not significantly increase the odds of a theft. Not having comfort access does not significantly reduce the odds of a theft. You have been targeted, been under surveillance, and they have the means. Mail Online CCTV recordings of electronic key cloning (if that's what they actually represent) are good clickbait but not statistically significant given 80,000 thefts/year. Corellation is not causation - a lot of stolen cars have comfort access but that's not why they were stolen. They were already targetted and would be taken, whatever.
The informed police advice is (1) location: Garage the car if at all possible. If you can't, put it on the street randomly. Keeping it on the drive immediately identifies where the keys are kept. (2) Keep keys downstairs somewhere away from the front door, out of sight but not so well-hidden that nutter thieves are forced to beat the location out of you (3) House Access: Be sensitive to anyone with access to your house. Meter readers. Gas/Electric/Water supplier engineers. Anyone you keep standing at the door while you go and get someone/thing. If you're having building work done on the house then keep your key store location under wraps [most builders are more than honest but a. they often use casual subcontractors and b.the front door is more likely to be left open] (4) Be particularly concerned if you lose track of a set of keys, even it they magically reappear a few days later, and especially if this coincides with meter readers, building work, or any unsolicited visitor (see final para.).
There is a lot of evidence that professionals are increasingly copying/cloning keys. The ideal, least-risk for them is to get hold of your keys and copy/clone them ASAP then return them. Hence the advice (3) above. Then they can confirm the buyer for the car, and return around 3-4am a few days later, and quietly take the vehicle, giving them plenty of time to get away before you get up and notice.
Edited by msej449 on Thursday 17th August 20:52
Yes, apologies for stating the obvious but I get a bit annoyed at the media hysterics on keyless theft. Not that it isn't a factor, but people should feel reassured that they aren't entirely helpless, can take some really effective but simple precautions, and that this isn't a burgeoning crime sector. It was summed up for me by a policeman who said people should treat their car keys like their wallet: you wouldn't leave your wallet in your coat at a restaurant, or not worry if you couldn't find it for a couple of days, or leave it in full view under the hall window.
And again, if you have a load of junk in your garage and your BMW/Mercedes/Audi/RS2 etc. on the drive, then for heaven's sake, clear out the garage and put the car in there.
And again, if you have a load of junk in your garage and your BMW/Mercedes/Audi/RS2 etc. on the drive, then for heaven's sake, clear out the garage and put the car in there.
Edited by msej449 on Thursday 17th August 21:04
msej449 said:
Yes, apologies for stating the obvious but I get a bit annoyed at the media hysterics on keyless theft. Not that it isn't a factor, but people should feel reassured that they aren't entirely helpless, can take some really effective but simple precautions, and that this isn't a burgeoning crime sector. It was summed up for me by a policeman who said people should treat their car keys like their wallet: you wouldn't leave your wallet in your coat at a restaurant, or not worry if you couldn't find it for a couple of days, or leave it in full view under the hall window.
And again, if you have a load of junk in your garage and your BMW/Mercedes/Audi/RS2 etc. on the drive, then for heaven's sake, clear out the garage and put the car in there.
mmmm not sure about that analogy............if your wallet is in the hall you cant suck the money and credit cards in it into your back pocket with computer software And again, if you have a load of junk in your garage and your BMW/Mercedes/Audi/RS2 etc. on the drive, then for heaven's sake, clear out the garage and put the car in there.
Edited by msej449 on Thursday 17th August 21:04
msej449 said:
stuff
Thanks for that, interesting post - not so obvious for some of us 
What's the verdict on people living in flats? I have unmarked allocated parking and live on the second floor. Someone watching me come and go can't see what flat I'm in. I don't get cold callers and meters are all outside. During the day the area around the building is quite busy. So from what you've said I'd assume I'm a lower risk but is there anything I should be thinking about I may not be already?
smashy said:
mmmm not sure about that analogy............if your wallet is in the hall you cant suck the money and credit cards in it into your back pocket with computer software
Agree it's not perfect but it is a fair point - I certainly used to be a lot less careful with my keys, when the keys give access to, say, a £40K car and my wallet's plastic can only go up to £15K max. I don't gainsay keyless cloning etc. but it seems worth taking some simple precautions is the point, I think. And I'd be the first to admit that even recently, I've not heeded my own advice: A new guy turned up to read the gas/electricity meter recently. He looked very convincing with a handheld thingy and I was busy. I let him in and into the place where the gas meter is .. also where the keys are all lined-up .... he could easily have been bogus, quietly pocketed a set of keys, cloned them and then placed them back on the drive in the night. I'd then think I'd dropped them and be fast asleep a couple of nights later when they 'collected' the car. Doh.
zeDufMan:
I'm not an expert, so I have to be careful about advice. Might be worth contacting the local Police CPO (Crime Prevention Officer) if you have a residents association. My observation is that I'd just be wary about the same things as I would re personal item theft - guys sat in a car in the car park apparently doing nothing; anyone hanging around as if they're waiting for something; an individual in a car apparently reading their laptop in the passenger seat .... And the usual one of being sure you've actually locked the car. On mine, I can fold the mirrors when it locks - this is a good indication that it's secure. If the windows haven't folded then someone may have blocked the locking signal.
To balance the current comfort access criticisms a bit - I like CA in 'dodgy' urban car parks. The underground one near our office in East Croydon is particularly post-apocalyptic. CA lets me walk vaguely towards the car and only unlock as I am actually opening the door. Then I lock the car as soon as I'm in. If there's anyone, or two too close I just walk on. Of course, I could do similar with a conventional key, but CA lets me have my rucksack in one hand and the other free to open the door.
Edited by msej449 on Thursday 17th August 21:59
msej449 said:
Agree it's not perfect but it is a fair point - I certainly used to be a lot less careful with my keys, when the keys give access to, say, a £40K car and my wallet's plastic can only go up to £15K max. I don't gainsay keyless cloning etc. but it seems worth taking some simple precautions is the point, I think.
And I'd be the first to admit that even recently, I've not heeded my own advice: A new guy turned up to read the gas/electricity meter recently. He looked very convincing with a handheld thingy and I was busy. I let him in and into the place where the gas meter is .. also where the keys are all lined-up .... he could easily have been bogus, quietly pocketed a set of keys, cloned them and then placed them back on the drive in the night. I'd then think I'd dropped them and be fast asleep a couple of nights later when they 'collected' the car. Doh,
Your not wrong there as I say my spare fob is wrapped in Aluminium foil back of a bedroom desk draw the one I use I put in an Aluminium wallet when im home. My 64 plate 3 series was being opened every 3/4 months as was my neighbours 14 plate X6 ( his last one stolen into the night) Now all is quiet and we both put Diskloks on and the aluminium thing religouslyAnd I'd be the first to admit that even recently, I've not heeded my own advice: A new guy turned up to read the gas/electricity meter recently. He looked very convincing with a handheld thingy and I was busy. I let him in and into the place where the gas meter is .. also where the keys are all lined-up .... he could easily have been bogus, quietly pocketed a set of keys, cloned them and then placed them back on the drive in the night. I'd then think I'd dropped them and be fast asleep a couple of nights later when they 'collected' the car. Doh,
The Stiglet said:
If I bought another, slightly newer X5 would it suffer from the same problem? I've found a nice 2013 40d better specced than mine.
If so, I'm considering an Audi B8 S4 Avant or Merc C63 AMG Wagon - same problem?!
IMO add an additional immobiliser to it as soon as you buy it which should prevent cloned key theft.If so, I'm considering an Audi B8 S4 Avant or Merc C63 AMG Wagon - same problem?!
Edited by The Stiglet on Friday 18th August 17:17
I had an E92 335d stoledn without keys, the day I bought my E92 M3 I had an additional immobilioser fitted.
river_rat said:
The Stiglet said:
If I bought another, slightly newer X5 would it suffer from the same problem? I've found a nice 2013 40d better specced than mine.
If so, I'm considering an Audi B8 S4 Avant or Merc C63 AMG Wagon - same problem?!
IMO add an additional immobiliser to it as soon as you buy it which should prevent cloned key theft.If so, I'm considering an Audi B8 S4 Avant or Merc C63 AMG Wagon - same problem?!
Edited by The Stiglet on Friday 18th August 17:17
I had an E92 335d stoledn without keys, the day I bought my E92 M3 I had an additional immobilioser fitted.
However, an immobiliser won't stop the thieves potentially causing £100s of damage trying to get into the car in the first place by destroying the lock and/or window and any damage by an attempted theft should really be disclosed to your insurer, which will bump up your premiums too.
I'd suggest fitting a wheel lock, gear shift lock, collapsing bollard or other very visible and mechanical means of securing your car and don't think it won't happen to you. Both my sister and I have had attempted car thefts from our homes and we live in very low crime areas.
If your car is parked regularly on your drive overnight, you need additional and preferably very visible security.
Bringing this thread back to life...
I had my 2012 BMW 320d M Sport edition stolen from Camberley, Surrey area last week. To make things worse, I only had it a few months and had a load of stuff in car (child seat, sunglasses, golf clubs, weightlifting shoes/belt, other clothes) which all totals a fair amount.
I live in an apartment with CCTV so I've got it all on CCTV. The thief first appears at 01.25 and dismantles a security light. He the returns an hour later and breaks into the car in seconds. He then returns at 02.58 and gets back in the car for 20 mins (presumably plugging into the obd port to clone the key). He leaves again and returns minutes later to drive away.
My questions are;
1) How on earth are they able to break into the car itself almost instantly?
2) It looks like its a premeditated theft. Why would they target a car only worth £13-£14k? Is it simply because of how easy it is to steal?
I had my 2012 BMW 320d M Sport edition stolen from Camberley, Surrey area last week. To make things worse, I only had it a few months and had a load of stuff in car (child seat, sunglasses, golf clubs, weightlifting shoes/belt, other clothes) which all totals a fair amount.
I live in an apartment with CCTV so I've got it all on CCTV. The thief first appears at 01.25 and dismantles a security light. He the returns an hour later and breaks into the car in seconds. He then returns at 02.58 and gets back in the car for 20 mins (presumably plugging into the obd port to clone the key). He leaves again and returns minutes later to drive away.
My questions are;
1) How on earth are they able to break into the car itself almost instantly?
2) It looks like its a premeditated theft. Why would they target a car only worth £13-£14k? Is it simply because of how easy it is to steal?
Terminator X said:
Shocking! However, my E92 didn't have keyless entry like that (i.e. you have to physically press the key to open the car). Some of them will use a simpler method to get in, using a air jack
http://www.screwfix.com/p/hedgehog-easy-air-wedge-...
I was looking at the F01 but after reading this thread think i'll stop looking :0
http://www.screwfix.com/p/hedgehog-easy-air-wedge-...
I was looking at the F01 but after reading this thread think i'll stop looking :0
....... 
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