New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys
Discussion
It depends how you define still a risk? I suspect so point blank, but they have definitely improved the security around that area and the software changes and updates have made it more tricky.
Reality is as well the crims have changed in majority to other methods to steal that are less vehicle specific.
If it is a modern BMW though there is a bit of fad for steering wheels and idrives...
Reality is as well the crims have changed in majority to other methods to steal that are less vehicle specific.
If it is a modern BMW though there is a bit of fad for steering wheels and idrives...
Hello
I found my car looking like this yesterday.
Looked fresh as the seat was dry and it had been raining yesterday morning.
Now I don't know if this was mindless vandalism or a theft attempt - if theft then I'm obviously wandering if they were disturbed or if they just didn't manage to take my car due to whatever updates I've read about.
Its a BMW 2009 E91 335i. Can anyone tell me what the latest is for this model.
Thanks
I found my car looking like this yesterday.
Looked fresh as the seat was dry and it had been raining yesterday morning.
Now I don't know if this was mindless vandalism or a theft attempt - if theft then I'm obviously wandering if they were disturbed or if they just didn't manage to take my car due to whatever updates I've read about.
Its a BMW 2009 E91 335i. Can anyone tell me what the latest is for this model.
Thanks
Looks like it may be random vandalism, the glass hasn't been disturbed?
On the same topic, no one answered the question? Is it now safer to have a BMW? I specced my 2016 mini to not have keyless entry as I don't trust them but now it turns out, the issue is that it's still keyless start?
On the same topic, no one answered the question? Is it now safer to have a BMW? I specced my 2016 mini to not have keyless entry as I don't trust them but now it turns out, the issue is that it's still keyless start?
alfabadass said:
Looks like it may be random vandalism, the glass hasn't been disturbed?
On the same topic, no one answered the question? Is it now safer to have a BMW? I specced my 2016 mini to not have keyless entry as I don't trust them but now it turns out, the issue is that it's still keyless start?
I'd have expected all the glass to be removed as the culprits would need to access the OBD port.On the same topic, no one answered the question? Is it now safer to have a BMW? I specced my 2016 mini to not have keyless entry as I don't trust them but now it turns out, the issue is that it's still keyless start?
Shouldn't the alarm have gone off when the glass was broken?
pingu393 said:
alfabadass said:
Looks like it may be random vandalism, the glass hasn't been disturbed?
On the same topic, no one answered the question? Is it now safer to have a BMW? I specced my 2016 mini to not have keyless entry as I don't trust them but now it turns out, the issue is that it's still keyless start?
I'd have expected all the glass to be removed as the culprits would need to access the OBD port.On the same topic, no one answered the question? Is it now safer to have a BMW? I specced my 2016 mini to not have keyless entry as I don't trust them but now it turns out, the issue is that it's still keyless start?
Shouldn't the alarm have gone off when the glass was broken?
I stuck my hand in and the alarm didn't go off. Apparently the front there isn't visible to the sensors.
This is how they were stealing them back in 2010 or 2011. Break window. Plug device into OBD port. Tell car to unlock and reprogram new key to car. Put key in car and drive away.
ATM said:
pingu393 said:
alfabadass said:
Looks like it may be random vandalism, the glass hasn't been disturbed?
On the same topic, no one answered the question? Is it now safer to have a BMW? I specced my 2016 mini to not have keyless entry as I don't trust them but now it turns out, the issue is that it's still keyless start?
I'd have expected all the glass to be removed as the culprits would need to access the OBD port.On the same topic, no one answered the question? Is it now safer to have a BMW? I specced my 2016 mini to not have keyless entry as I don't trust them but now it turns out, the issue is that it's still keyless start?
Shouldn't the alarm have gone off when the glass was broken?
I stuck my hand in and the alarm didn't go off. Apparently the front there isn't visible to the sensors.
This is how they were stealing them back in 2010 or 2011. Break window. Plug device into OBD port. Tell car to unlock and reprogram new key to car. Put key in car and drive away.
Bad news is that windows will still be broken if they think the car is vulnerable.
No such thing as an alarmed OBD socket ?
Could work a number of ways
1. A bluetooth alarmed plugin dongle that goes off if disturbed. Bluetooth to program the pin code and disable for removal etc.
Or 2 a physically lockable cover that is alarmed.
Given how bad embedded device security is these days I'd go for 2.
Or relocate the port.
Could work a number of ways
1. A bluetooth alarmed plugin dongle that goes off if disturbed. Bluetooth to program the pin code and disable for removal etc.
Or 2 a physically lockable cover that is alarmed.
Given how bad embedded device security is these days I'd go for 2.
Or relocate the port.
bmwmike said:
No such thing as an alarmed OBD socket ?
Could work a number of ways
1. A bluetooth alarmed plugin dongle that goes off if disturbed. Bluetooth to program the pin code and disable for removal etc.
Or 2 a physically lockable cover that is alarmed.
Given how bad embedded device security is these days I'd go for 2.
Or relocate the port.
The thing is this doesn't prevent the thief trying it. Hence the visual deterrent which is hopefully enough to get them to move on.Could work a number of ways
1. A bluetooth alarmed plugin dongle that goes off if disturbed. Bluetooth to program the pin code and disable for removal etc.
Or 2 a physically lockable cover that is alarmed.
Given how bad embedded device security is these days I'd go for 2.
Or relocate the port.
They didn't manage to take my car clearly. So either it has whatever updates from BMW and these worked or they were just incompetent.
Just have no power reach the socket they'll think blown fuse etc or power the dummy correctly and have no comms it will just confuse them, trying to damage their equipment will solve nothing 
or at worse damage a specialists or dealers 
but no comms only will put them off and they will just move on rather than scouting around the lower dash area for the genuine/real OBD port
or at worse damage a specialists or dealers but no comms only will put them off and they will just move on rather than scouting around the lower dash area for the genuine/real OBD port Edited by Sardonicus on Sunday 22 July 17:21
Seems this is still a problem all these years down the line. 
As some people have mentioned - you really want a visual deterrent that makes it clear at first glance that even trying to break in and clone the key is a waste of time.
With a warning sticker, moved OBD port, disabled OBD port etc it costs the thief nothing more than 30 seconds of their time to break in and try the OBD port anyway. They know the alarm isn't going to go off and the chances of them getting caught are near zero whislt the pay off could be £tens of thousands.
However, it can cost you £hundreds to repair the damage they cause in their attempt even if they can't take the car.
Personally a Disklock, whilst a significant deterrant) is a pain in the backside to keep in the car and keep putting on and taking off. I'd go with something like a stoplock as these guys aren't interested in cutting through bars or steering wheels, they want a quick and easy break in and clone.
As some people have mentioned - you really want a visual deterrent that makes it clear at first glance that even trying to break in and clone the key is a waste of time.
With a warning sticker, moved OBD port, disabled OBD port etc it costs the thief nothing more than 30 seconds of their time to break in and try the OBD port anyway. They know the alarm isn't going to go off and the chances of them getting caught are near zero whislt the pay off could be £tens of thousands.
However, it can cost you £hundreds to repair the damage they cause in their attempt even if they can't take the car.
Personally a Disklock, whilst a significant deterrant) is a pain in the backside to keep in the car and keep putting on and taking off. I'd go with something like a stoplock as these guys aren't interested in cutting through bars or steering wheels, they want a quick and easy break in and clone.
Edited by youngsyr on Monday 23 July 10:42
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/95... Disklok loses as its difficult to fit. It takes me about 6 seconds to turn round in my seat, lift it from the passenger well and fit.
MailOnline hysterics and video clickbait aside, let's look at the facts based on actual police data. Which is that for the last two years of published figures (2015 and 2016, after which the government decided to hand them over to a privatised organisation, thanks a bundle) the Top Ten stolen cars by numbers (not %) were mainly the big SUVs - BMW X5, Audi Q7, Range Rover, Discovery and Mitsubishi. The #1 was the X5 in 2015 and the RS3/S3 in 2016 where the #1 car is taken at twice the rate of the rest of the models in Top Ten. The others in the list were the BMW 5 Series and Escort. Arguably, this is a bit unfair on the 5 Series because no other model's numbers get aggregated in the same way e.g. the Audi A3 series would get tarred with the S3 brush if they aggregated in the same way.
Police comment on the Escort is this is the only model that gets taken opportunistically and not necessarily for resale, often just as transport for a single journey, because older models are relatively insecure and easy to start.
Police analysis for the rest of the Top Ten and generally for luxury/performance models is that they are taken 'to order' by professional gangs. Such gangs have contacts in the UK and abroad from whom they build a 'shopping list' of cars in demand that they have buyers for already. They'll cruise 'round and are on the lookout particularly for cars on drives, or in the marked bays of flats, where it's clear the keys will be in the house/flat. They often subcontract to young types prepared to take the physical risks of theft, which often makes these look opportunistic, which they aren't.
Whether a car has comfort access or not is irrelevant. Most stolen cars are dark-coloured but buying a light-coloured car does not reduce the probability of theft. Ditto keyless. Some gangs may use keyless cloning to make their life easier, but this will not deter them if it fails to work. Subjective experience supports this as well as police feedback - over on the BMW M-Lite Forum all the 24 thefts reported in the last 18 months have been by thieves breaking into the house and physically removing the keys. None have been keyless cloning.
Looking at police figures, a car parked on a drive or numbered bay is 3x more likely to be stolen than if parked in a garage. Parking your car randomly on the street halves the probability of theft compared to parking it on the drive.
Police also say there's an increase in thieves getting a set of keys by deception, and in some cases cloning them and then returning them. Hence the reports of thefts where people still have both sets of keys. Bogus meter readers are a popular one, as is someone turning up on the doorstep and being left there unattended while you go and get someone or something. Also if you're having building work done, it can be very easy for someone to dress up in a workman's outfit and wander in. If they're challenged, they'll just say they're starting on a job nearby and got the wrong house.
The obvious precaution if you have a luxury/performance car is always to garage it - not just at night but in the day as well. If you can't, then park on the street rather than on the drive. Also, treat your keys like your wallet: don't leave them on display or anywhere near the front door/hall, and not with the meters (e.g. under the stairs) if these are indoors.
By all means get a Faraday pouch if you want to deter electronic cloning, although be aware that for most thefts of luxury/performance cars, this won't deter criminals, and the odds are they'll then break in to get the keys. It's up to you if you think a KrookLok or similar will be a deterrent to organised criminals, although there's no evidence from police stats to support this.
Finally, discussions on the M-Lite BMW Forum highlight how poor even a modern front door is in terms of resisting determined force. So it makes sense to take a look at your home's physical security and uprate this a bit. This doesn't mean CCTV and alarms but far more cost-effective things like strengthened locks and bolts. After all, if you're spending £30K+ on a new car, surely it's worth a few hundred £ on uprated locks and bolts to keep you safe from the key hunters? And your general security is improved as well.
Police comment on the Escort is this is the only model that gets taken opportunistically and not necessarily for resale, often just as transport for a single journey, because older models are relatively insecure and easy to start.
Police analysis for the rest of the Top Ten and generally for luxury/performance models is that they are taken 'to order' by professional gangs. Such gangs have contacts in the UK and abroad from whom they build a 'shopping list' of cars in demand that they have buyers for already. They'll cruise 'round and are on the lookout particularly for cars on drives, or in the marked bays of flats, where it's clear the keys will be in the house/flat. They often subcontract to young types prepared to take the physical risks of theft, which often makes these look opportunistic, which they aren't.
Whether a car has comfort access or not is irrelevant. Most stolen cars are dark-coloured but buying a light-coloured car does not reduce the probability of theft. Ditto keyless. Some gangs may use keyless cloning to make their life easier, but this will not deter them if it fails to work. Subjective experience supports this as well as police feedback - over on the BMW M-Lite Forum all the 24 thefts reported in the last 18 months have been by thieves breaking into the house and physically removing the keys. None have been keyless cloning.
Looking at police figures, a car parked on a drive or numbered bay is 3x more likely to be stolen than if parked in a garage. Parking your car randomly on the street halves the probability of theft compared to parking it on the drive.
Police also say there's an increase in thieves getting a set of keys by deception, and in some cases cloning them and then returning them. Hence the reports of thefts where people still have both sets of keys. Bogus meter readers are a popular one, as is someone turning up on the doorstep and being left there unattended while you go and get someone or something. Also if you're having building work done, it can be very easy for someone to dress up in a workman's outfit and wander in. If they're challenged, they'll just say they're starting on a job nearby and got the wrong house.
The obvious precaution if you have a luxury/performance car is always to garage it - not just at night but in the day as well. If you can't, then park on the street rather than on the drive. Also, treat your keys like your wallet: don't leave them on display or anywhere near the front door/hall, and not with the meters (e.g. under the stairs) if these are indoors.
By all means get a Faraday pouch if you want to deter electronic cloning, although be aware that for most thefts of luxury/performance cars, this won't deter criminals, and the odds are they'll then break in to get the keys. It's up to you if you think a KrookLok or similar will be a deterrent to organised criminals, although there's no evidence from police stats to support this.
Finally, discussions on the M-Lite BMW Forum highlight how poor even a modern front door is in terms of resisting determined force. So it makes sense to take a look at your home's physical security and uprate this a bit. This doesn't mean CCTV and alarms but far more cost-effective things like strengthened locks and bolts. After all, if you're spending £30K+ on a new car, surely it's worth a few hundred £ on uprated locks and bolts to keep you safe from the key hunters? And your general security is improved as well.
Edited by msej449 on Tuesday 23 October 10:35
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