New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys
Discussion
eastsider said:
nvm said:
I beliee the X5 and X6 have been updated for door door security. If i am right the big BMWs had a flaw in the door lock like the old golfs and leons.
We can test whether they have stopped the EDILOCK programmer if anyone wants to pop down to us.
Mate of mine has an X5 that was updated earlier this week. I was interested to hear that the dealer had to remove a speaker he has installed in the passenger footwell to access a socket on that side (was what they told him). Clearly there is more to this "update" than just plugging into the OBD for a few hours - anyone shed any light on that?We can test whether they have stopped the EDILOCK programmer if anyone wants to pop down to us.
(Cheeky f
kers tried to charge him £90 labour to remove 4 screws and lift the speaker out - he told them where to shove that!)It is my first time posting to this board. I thought I might share my story: on Tuesday morning my wife called to ask me where I had parked our Oct. 2010 (60 plate) 320d M sport, sure enough it had been lifted. We have both of our keys and we suspect the key has been cloned via the obd. I live in Kensington and Chelsea and have heard from a friend of at least one other BMW being stolen (an M5) in our area using this method. I only became aware of this security flaw after my vehicle was stolen. When I called BMW UK to notify them of the theft I mentioned that the security issues will have an impact on whether or not I buy another BMW (what was Einstein's definition of stupidity again?). The chap on the phone acknowledged this and assured me that models manufactured after September 2011 are not affected because they have the "enhanced" security package. I asked him what he meant by this, he responded by saying that whilst he cannot go into too much detail the "enhanced" security does not change the manner in which keys can be cloned through the obd but rather is focussed on increasing the security preventing access to the vehicle in the first place. In otherwords, the alarm/immobilser seems to be the only thing that is being improved. Onthis basis, unfortunately, I don't think I'll be buying another BMW (new or otherwise).
nvm said:
these have already started selling well. 1 series version to be released very soon.
moving the obd can void warranty and also cause future MOT issues!
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?p=852...
http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=40...
Pre - order now by sending us an e-mail sales@nvmotorsport.com
Fit and forget, we found impossible to gain access to the OBD even with tools with just the window open.
hmm, don't think im convinced moving the obd can void warranty and also cause future MOT issues!
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?p=852...
http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=40...
Pre - order now by sending us an e-mail sales@nvmotorsport.com
Fit and forget, we found impossible to gain access to the OBD even with tools with just the window open.
you can just rip the plastic panel off where that ODB cover goes to by leaning in through the window, admittedly your going to do some damage as the bonnet release is screwed in but then your good to go!
just my view!
GP
chivdog said:
It is my first time posting to this board. I thought I might share my story: on Tuesday morning my wife called to ask me where I had parked our Oct. 2010 (60 plate) 320d M sport, sure enough it had been lifted. We have both of our keys and we suspect the key has been cloned via the obd. I live in Kensington and Chelsea and have heard from a friend of at least one other BMW being stolen (an M5) in our area using this method. I only became aware of this security flaw after my vehicle was stolen. When I called BMW UK to notify them of the theft I mentioned that the security issues will have an impact on whether or not I buy another BMW (what was Einstein's definition of stupidity again?). The chap on the phone acknowledged this and assured me that models manufactured after September 2011 are not affected because they have the "enhanced" security package. I asked him what he meant by this, he responded by saying that whilst he cannot go into too much detail the "enhanced" security does not change the manner in which keys can be cloned through the obd but rather is focussed on increasing the security preventing access to the vehicle in the first place. In otherwords, the alarm/immobilser seems to be the only thing that is being improved. Onthis basis, unfortunately, I don't think I'll be buying another BMW (new or otherwise).
Hello Chiv ,first off ,tough for you .Point 2 ,If that is all they have done what a sad state of affairs ,I was looking forward to an F30 330d mmmmmmmm what on earth shall I get now? Lets face it the BMW Diesel Engine whatever size is the best out there by quite a margin for performance and economy.
Edited by smashy on Friday 5th October 14:11
A large part of the problem (or pretty much all of it) was that the alarm wasn't sensitive enough, allowing practically unlimited access to the OBD port, once the window was dealt with.
If the alarm has been made sensitive enough, that problem has been solved.
As for cloning keys once you have access to the OBD port, the same thing can be done for pretty much every other car out there.
So, why are people avoiding getting a newer BMW ? I just want to understand your perspective on it.
For me, the concern has been dealt with. So I would personally get another one if it came to that, although I might spend a year or two in some other manufacturer car for a change - but not because of this issue.
If the alarm has been made sensitive enough, that problem has been solved.
As for cloning keys once you have access to the OBD port, the same thing can be done for pretty much every other car out there.
So, why are people avoiding getting a newer BMW ? I just want to understand your perspective on it.
For me, the concern has been dealt with. So I would personally get another one if it came to that, although I might spend a year or two in some other manufacturer car for a change - but not because of this issue.
For the umpteenth time....
sinizter said:
A large part of the problem (or pretty much all of it) was that the alarm wasn't sensitive enough, allowing practically unlimited access to the OBD port, once the window was dealt with.
If the alarm has been made sensitive enough, that problem has been solved.
No, it really isn't.If the alarm has been made sensitive enough, that problem has been solved.
sinizter said:
As for cloning keys once you have access to the OBD port, the same thing can be done for pretty much every other car out there.
No, it really can't.People seem to belive this is a problem with the alarm system.
The actual problem is that you can walk up to a BMW with any old key from another BMW, and code the car to it with a hand held device in under a minute.
An alarm fix is a sticking plaster.
There is good evidence to suggest that thieves are able to prevent the car from locking OR make it unlock, meaning that the alarm will not activate in any case.
So we're back to square one: It should not be possible to code a car to a key without verification. But it is.
I'd hoped the software fix would be somewhat more involved than cranking the alarm sensitivity up to 11.
The actual problem is that you can walk up to a BMW with any old key from another BMW, and code the car to it with a hand held device in under a minute.
An alarm fix is a sticking plaster.
There is good evidence to suggest that thieves are able to prevent the car from locking OR make it unlock, meaning that the alarm will not activate in any case.
So we're back to square one: It should not be possible to code a car to a key without verification. But it is.
I'd hoped the software fix would be somewhat more involved than cranking the alarm sensitivity up to 11.
WeirdNeville said:
People seem to belive this is a problem with the alarm system.
The actual problem is that you can walk up to a BMW with any old key from another BMW, and code the car to it with a hand held device in under a minute.
An alarm fix is a sticking plaster.
There is good evidence to suggest that thieves are able to prevent the car from locking OR make it unlock, meaning that the alarm will not activate in any case.
So we're back to square one: It should not be possible to code a car to a key without verification. But it is.
I'd hoped the software fix would be somewhat more involved than cranking the alarm sensitivity up to 11.
It is an alarm issue. No one should be able to forcefully enter a modern car without the alarm activating. The fact that you can drill the lock or smash the window with impunity is a massive issue.The actual problem is that you can walk up to a BMW with any old key from another BMW, and code the car to it with a hand held device in under a minute.
An alarm fix is a sticking plaster.
There is good evidence to suggest that thieves are able to prevent the car from locking OR make it unlock, meaning that the alarm will not activate in any case.
So we're back to square one: It should not be possible to code a car to a key without verification. But it is.
I'd hoped the software fix would be somewhat more involved than cranking the alarm sensitivity up to 11.
Once a thief can enter a car without the alarm sounding, all bets are off as it opens up a myriad of ways for them to attempt to steal the car.
In this case, having a working alarm will stop the issue dead in its tracks.
But it won't, because in about half of cases they don't do anything that would cause the alarm to sound anyway.
The walk up to what is in effect an unlocked car, programme a key into it, and drive it away.
And anway, when was the last time you bothered to look at a car when an alarm was audible? To see an owner wave in a friendly fashion, present a key, blip it, the alarm to silence and the person to get in the car to drive off? Because that's exactly what you'll see in this circumstance.
The walk up to what is in effect an unlocked car, programme a key into it, and drive it away.
And anway, when was the last time you bothered to look at a car when an alarm was audible? To see an owner wave in a friendly fashion, present a key, blip it, the alarm to silence and the person to get in the car to drive off? Because that's exactly what you'll see in this circumstance.
WeirdNeville said:
But it won't, because in about half of cases they don't do anything that would cause the alarm to sound anyway.
The walk up to what is in effect an unlocked car, programme a key into it, and drive it away.
And anway, when was the last time you bothered to look at a car when an alarm was audible? To see an owner wave in a friendly fashion, present a key, blip it, the alarm to silence and the person to get in the car to drive off? Because that's exactly what you'll see in this circumstance.
If the owner can't lock the car properly, then that's not BMWs fault. I also haven't read of one case on here where a jammer was used. They've all either had their locks drilled or the window smashed.The walk up to what is in effect an unlocked car, programme a key into it, and drive it away.
And anway, when was the last time you bothered to look at a car when an alarm was audible? To see an owner wave in a friendly fashion, present a key, blip it, the alarm to silence and the person to get in the car to drive off? Because that's exactly what you'll see in this circumstance.
If the alarm worked it would not be just a case of the thief waving a key around and turning off the alarm within seconds - it takes over 2 minutes to reprogramme the key once they've got access to the OBD port. This is likely to attract some attention in most cases.
Many of these cars are taken from people's drives in the middle of the night - given two minutes warning of their car being interfered with just metres away from them, most people would take some action and it would take a very brazen thief to contemplate a theft under such circumstances.
Youngysr> No, the thief is able to either PREVENT the car from locking, or else force it to unlock. The owner has nothign to do wit hit.
And it's not 2 minutes. It can be done far faster, it's just the device BBC Watchdog had took 2 minutes. 10-20 seconds is more like the actual time from plugging some devices in to working key, fully automated.
And it's not 2 minutes. It can be done far faster, it's just the device BBC Watchdog had took 2 minutes. 10-20 seconds is more like the actual time from plugging some devices in to working key, fully automated.
WeirdNeville said:
Youngysr> No, the thief is able to either PREVENT the car from locking, or else force it to unlock. The owner has nothign to do wit hit.
And it's not 2 minutes. It can be done far faster, it's just the device BBC Watchdog had took 2 minutes. 10-20 seconds is more like the actual time from plugging some devices in to working key, fully automated.
Either way, 20 seconds is enough time to stop a theft from outside your house, which is how many of these cars have gone.And it's not 2 minutes. It can be done far faster, it's just the device BBC Watchdog had took 2 minutes. 10-20 seconds is more like the actual time from plugging some devices in to working key, fully automated.
The forcing to unlock is done by smashing the window or drilling the lock, either of which should set the alarm off. I haven't read of a single case of a stolen car being recovered without either a broken window or a drilled lock.
Not sure why people seem to think that the alarm system will cure the problem.
SERIOUSLY?
What we need is the ability for a key NOT to be programmed to the car in under 30 seconds.
Who even needs an alarm then?
They wouldn't try to steal it in the same manner.
I mean it is quite bloody obvious - it would then make BMW no different to any other brand.
SERIOUSLY?
What we need is the ability for a key NOT to be programmed to the car in under 30 seconds.
Who even needs an alarm then?
They wouldn't try to steal it in the same manner.
I mean it is quite bloody obvious - it would then make BMW no different to any other brand.
WeirdNeville said:
People seem to belive this is a problem with the alarm system.
The actual problem is that you can walk up to a BMW with any old key from another BMW, and code the car to it with a hand held device in under a minute.
It's a new key programmed to the car, not the car programmed to accept a used key.The actual problem is that you can walk up to a BMW with any old key from another BMW, and code the car to it with a hand held device in under a minute.
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