New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys
Discussion
JimmyTheHand said:
Yes and yes - it highlights just how many attack vectors are present once you start connecting something to the internet and how careful you need to be when designing such as system
This is true to a certain extent, but a lot of attacks target people and their behaviour, rather than the technology itself.For example, take the recent eBay attack. Many people still use the same password for multiple accounts.
So a hacker manages to steal an eBay e-mail address and password. Let's say the e-mail account is a gmail address. The first thing they will do is attempt to log into that person's gmail account with the same eBay password and I'll bet they get a 50% or higher success rate. Once they're into that person's e-mail account, they can then begin reading through their inbox and stealing further personal information.
The problem is, most people still use technology without understanding the dangers. I'm not blaming people, but there is a distinct lack of training and education (although I'm not sure who should be providing this training).
Most non-tech savvy people rely on other family members to help them set up e-mail accounts, broadband routers, smart TVs etc. For those people who don't understand the risks or don't have someone they can call on, then they are potentially the most vulnerable.
I think the (long-winded) point I'm trying to make is that no matter how secure a company makes their security, it will always rely on the human element and this is always the weakest link.
In relation to the on-going issue with the security flaw that has plagued BMWs (and other marques), there is no technological thing that any owner can do (like use a more secure password). They have to resort to "old-school" "mechanical" methods of moving the OBD port or adding a new security system etc., which is frustrating.
Just my two-penneth I guess.
MaxPayne said:
This is true to a certain extent, but a lot of attacks target people and their behaviour, rather than the technology itself.
The weakest element in most security systems is the human, but technology can exposes that weakness to whole world. This exposing yourself to the world is a pretty new risk, less than 15 years for the vast majority of people.MaxPayne said:
The problem is, most people still use technology without understanding the dangers. I'm not blaming people, but there is a distinct lack of training and education (although I'm not sure who should be providing this training).
It doesn't help that people think of "computers" (and cars, washing machines etc.) as something like a black box that they couldn't understand.MaxPayne said:
Most non-tech savvy people rely on other family members to help them set up e-mail accounts, broadband routers, smart TVs etc.
reminds me of a conversation relayed by my sister, Someone thought they could guess my her wifi password - until they realised I'd set it up for her.MaxPayne said:
I think the (long-winded) point I'm trying to make is that no matter how secure a company makes their security, it will always rely on the human element and this is always the weakest link.
This is why you need to try designing your systems to minimise these risks human introduce – e.g. if BMW enforced a user name less guessable you have reduced the risk. User interaction to IT is often not given the care it requires. MaxPayne said:
In relation to the on-going issue with the security flaw that has plagued BMWs (and other marques), there is no technological thing that any owner can do (like use a more secure password). They have to resort to "old-school" "mechanical" methods of moving the OBD port or adding a new security system etc., which is frustrating.
very frustrating.Why don't BMW just re-route the OBD to under the bonnet, surely you'd set the alarm of lifting the bonnet, who says the OBD has to be in the car?
Surely its a good simple cheap solution to all this, all they'd have to do is use an OBD extension lead, bond the lead onto the plug in the footwell and run it through the bulkhead and fix it to the scuttle panel meaning the bonnet would need lifting a fair bit to get to it, i'd even get some more stickers made 'OBD PORT RELOCATED'
Surely its a good simple cheap solution to all this, all they'd have to do is use an OBD extension lead, bond the lead onto the plug in the footwell and run it through the bulkhead and fix it to the scuttle panel meaning the bonnet would need lifting a fair bit to get to it, i'd even get some more stickers made 'OBD PORT RELOCATED'
Doink said:
Why don't BMW just re-route the OBD to under the bonnet, surely you'd set the alarm of lifting the bonnet, who says the OBD has to be in the car?
Surely its a good simple cheap solution to all this, all they'd have to do is use an OBD extension lead, bond the lead onto the plug in the footwell and run it through the bulkhead and fix it to the scuttle panel meaning the bonnet would need lifting a fair bit to get to it, i'd even get some more stickers made 'OBD PORT RELOCATED'
Because BMW are not interested in solving the problem. BMW sales are fine and as yet the insurance costs are still on a par with other cars in the same class. There is a huge demand for new BMW's. The actual solution is relatively simple as you suggest and various owners on here have described their efforts to achieve security by modding their cars.. But BMW are not getting involved. Up to the affected owners.Surely its a good simple cheap solution to all this, all they'd have to do is use an OBD extension lead, bond the lead onto the plug in the footwell and run it through the bulkhead and fix it to the scuttle panel meaning the bonnet would need lifting a fair bit to get to it, i'd even get some more stickers made 'OBD PORT RELOCATED'
Doink said:
Why don't BMW just re-route the OBD to under the bonnet, surely you'd set the alarm of lifting the bonnet, who says the OBD has to be in the car?
Surely its a good simple cheap solution to all this, all they'd have to do is use an OBD extension lead, bond the lead onto the plug in the footwell and run it through the bulkhead and fix it to the scuttle panel meaning the bonnet would need lifting a fair bit to get to it, i'd even get some more stickers made 'OBD PORT RELOCATED'
I think it's an EU regulation that the OBD port has to be located within the drivers section of the car. Surely its a good simple cheap solution to all this, all they'd have to do is use an OBD extension lead, bond the lead onto the plug in the footwell and run it through the bulkhead and fix it to the scuttle panel meaning the bonnet would need lifting a fair bit to get to it, i'd even get some more stickers made 'OBD PORT RELOCATED'
It's easy to relocate the port yourself. I did mine for £20. £15 for the 3m extension lead and £5 for a dummy port.
And another to add to the pot... Black 2010 520d Touring stolen from my drive last night without the keys, have both sets here. Reg YE10 UYG
No glass on floor etc, completely clean....
I only bought it in February and had specifically asked the dealer if it was vulnerable and if the updates had been done to which the reply was it will have all the latest updates.
In the back were our two kids car seats, both Recaro which weren't particularly cheap and a pushchair, i don't expect they'll be covered?
gutted to say the least.
No glass on floor etc, completely clean....
I only bought it in February and had specifically asked the dealer if it was vulnerable and if the updates had been done to which the reply was it will have all the latest updates.
In the back were our two kids car seats, both Recaro which weren't particularly cheap and a pushchair, i don't expect they'll be covered?
gutted to say the least.
2011 X5 40d AG11 NYS metallic grey stolen from london SW4 in the night...same as other posters ie no evidence, no broken glass etc. I have both keys
the only good news in the saga is i bought it 2nd hand from BMW and took out gap insurance which am now happy to see covers not only the gap but also the insurance xs
as per other comments ..certainly wont be buying another x5 or BMW as they are clearly much easier to nick (although the shame of it is it was a superb 7 seater and not much else that fits the bill and drives like a car)
now I understand why the previous Arabic owner who did 3000 miles in 3 years kept it in BMW Park lane's underground parking when he wasnt using it..
the only good news in the saga is i bought it 2nd hand from BMW and took out gap insurance which am now happy to see covers not only the gap but also the insurance xs
as per other comments ..certainly wont be buying another x5 or BMW as they are clearly much easier to nick (although the shame of it is it was a superb 7 seater and not much else that fits the bill and drives like a car)
now I understand why the previous Arabic owner who did 3000 miles in 3 years kept it in BMW Park lane's underground parking when he wasnt using it..
squirdan said:
2011 X5 40d AG11 NYS metallic grey stolen from london SW4 in the night...same as other posters ie no evidence, no broken glass etc. I have both keys
the only good news in the saga is i bought it 2nd hand from BMW and took out gap insurance which am now happy to see covers not only the gap but also the insurance xs
as per other comments ..certainly wont be buying another x5 or BMW as they are clearly much easier to nick (although the shame of it is it was a superb 7 seater and not much else that fits the bill and drives like a car)
now I understand why the previous Arabic owner who did 3000 miles in 3 years kept it in BMW Park lane's underground parking when he wasnt using it..
Sorry to hear that. I take it the update hadn't been done or had it? I have a 2011 x5 30d with update done so just curious. 7 seats is why I bought it too.the only good news in the saga is i bought it 2nd hand from BMW and took out gap insurance which am now happy to see covers not only the gap but also the insurance xs
as per other comments ..certainly wont be buying another x5 or BMW as they are clearly much easier to nick (although the shame of it is it was a superb 7 seater and not much else that fits the bill and drives like a car)
now I understand why the previous Arabic owner who did 3000 miles in 3 years kept it in BMW Park lane's underground parking when he wasnt using it..
I have spoken with the dealership this morning who have confirmed the security update hadn't been carried out on my car, I was very clearly told by the salesman that it had. Not happy in the slightest when it seems it could have been avoided.
Stupidly I hadn't taken the gap insurance so I expect I will be pretty screwed just 4 months in to ownership on a 4-year BMW finance deal.
Stupidly I hadn't taken the gap insurance so I expect I will be pretty screwed just 4 months in to ownership on a 4-year BMW finance deal.
janahan9 said:
Sorry to hear that. I take it the update hadn't been done or had it? I have a 2011 x5 30d with update done so just curious. 7 seats is why I bought it too.
to be honest have no idea about the update as I was unaware of it when I bought the carthe salesman in question took 3 attempts to successfully do the basic task of sending me the service book so the chances of finding out now, if it had, are probably nil
not to cast aspersions unfairly but I find myself wondering about all these car wash places where they encourage you to have a seat on their thoughtfully provided plastic chairs while they fiddle about cleaning the footwells..
I have exactly the same thoughts about the hand car washes. I had never taken my own BMW to one but when I had my bosses car for the week, a 2012 5 series F, I took it to a hand car wash on the Friday before giving it back Monday. They did take an awful long time cleaning the front interior, with one guy doing the drivers side carpet at the same time as another doing the centre console both through the drivers side door.
They were also very keen for me to sit inside which I resisted.
I didn't actually think too much about it at the time or the fact that I felt the OBD port cover knocking around by my foot on the way home, assuming it was just a cover they had knocked off during cleaning I just clipped it back on. If I was aware of the exact issue at the time I would have reacted, seems so obvious in hindsight!
So if this is how it is done its very simple. They make a note of the reg, keep an eye out for it or follow the car then take it whenever they want with an already cloned key.
Are these places all owned by the same company? They always seem to be the same colours, Blue and Yellow, certainly around here anyway!?
They were also very keen for me to sit inside which I resisted.
I didn't actually think too much about it at the time or the fact that I felt the OBD port cover knocking around by my foot on the way home, assuming it was just a cover they had knocked off during cleaning I just clipped it back on. If I was aware of the exact issue at the time I would have reacted, seems so obvious in hindsight!
So if this is how it is done its very simple. They make a note of the reg, keep an eye out for it or follow the car then take it whenever they want with an already cloned key.
Are these places all owned by the same company? They always seem to be the same colours, Blue and Yellow, certainly around here anyway!?
j80jpw said:
I have spoken with the dealership this morning who have confirmed the security update hadn't been carried out on my car, I was very clearly told by the salesman that it had. Not happy in the slightest when it seems it could have been avoided.
Stupidly I hadn't taken the gap insurance so I expect I will be pretty screwed just 4 months in to ownership on a 4-year BMW finance deal.
Was it purchased from a BMW dealer (and was it approved used) ? If so, I'd have thought you have some leverage for a serious goodwill gesture (either money off another vehicle from them or similar). Stupidly I hadn't taken the gap insurance so I expect I will be pretty screwed just 4 months in to ownership on a 4-year BMW finance deal.
I would have thought BMW UK would not be impressed if a dealer had prepped and sold a car without applying the necessary updates?
j80jpw said:
Stupidly I hadn't taken the gap insurance so I expect I will be pretty screwed just 4 months in to ownership on a 4-year BMW finance deal.
If you've only had the car 4 months I'd imagine you should be able to get invoice value back from the insurers. On brand new cars, a total loss in year one typically results in a payout equivalent to a new replacement.rscott said:
Was it purchased from a BMW dealer (and was it approved used) ? If so, I'd have thought you have some leverage for a serious goodwill gesture (either money off another vehicle from them or similar).
I would have thought BMW UK would not be impressed if a dealer had prepped and sold a car without applying the necessary updates?
I'm hoping for the goodwill gesture too, I have spoken with the Sales Manager at the dealership in question, which is a BMW main dealer and the car is approved used. He has been really helpful so far to be honest. The sales guy I dealt with has now left the company!I would have thought BMW UK would not be impressed if a dealer had prepped and sold a car without applying the necessary updates?
He also told me that the security update isn't on the mandatory list of updates from BMW UK that they are required to do !? It is only performed at the request of a customer. WHY?
I asked why they had created a security update in the first place if it wasn't to be used. He said maybe because it doesn't effect enough cars to warrant it being applied to all.
Just so annoyed that I had asked specifically for this and was assured it had already been done.
nstar said:
If you've only had the car 4 months I'd imagine you should be able to get invoice value back from the insurers. On brand new cars, a total loss in year one typically results in a payout equivalent to a new replacement.
Really, I hope that is the case! I am Insured with BMW, the car is financed with BMW finance also, will be interesting to see how it pans out. I am expecting to be out of pocket but I really hope not by much. I had 10 years+ no claims too. Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff