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BE57 TOY

1,961 posts

33 months

[news] 
Monday 2nd April 2012 quote quote all
Munchy said:
Very useful info, it's quite possible that people press it twice just to make sure/deadlock. I wanted to buy another '55 5 series but it would probably just get taken again no matter what security I put on it, they have tools and software for everything.

Car info: PK55 FHR, 530d in Carbon Black


Gutted.
Any tracker?

Munchy

6 posts

31 months

[news] 
Monday 2nd April 2012 quote quote all
BE57 TOY said:
Any tracker?
Yep, I paid £600 for the Tracker to be activated after finding out it was nicked.. they call me every day just to let me know they've had no success in finding it.

TheEnd

14,319 posts

74 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
Nuclear Biscuit said:
Trying hard to think of a good reason why the OBD interface isn't disabled in the absence of the key...
Because there is no mechanical key, the only way to let the car know the "owner" is there would be with the electronic key.

If the electronic key has a problem, you'd be locked out for good.


With nearly all systems, there was a redundancy, you had a radio fob for the door locks and a metal key blade, and then the close proximity transponder chips.

Although it is now radio and transponder, there's no failsafe for electronic problems, so the CAS module is left open without key to fix key issues.
It isn't all that unusual. I found I could lock and unlock doors with a laptop on a Renault without the key being near, as the locking module doesn't go to sleep.


BMW can't do much with the CAS, but the CAS module has a list of keys that will be allowed, these would be the ones that would be made up in Germany and sent out as replacements.

What then happens is you get a readout from the CAS to see what key is expected next, and then make it.

There's 128bit encryption on the ECUs to stop them being remapped, but they left the "door" open on the car instead.

BE57 TOY

1,961 posts

33 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
TheEnd said:
Because there is no mechanical key, the only way to let the car know the "owner" is there would be with the electronic key.

If the electronic key has a problem, you'd be locked out for good.


With nearly all systems, there was a redundancy, you had a radio fob for the door locks and a metal key blade, and then the close proximity transponder chips.

Although it is now radio and transponder, there's no failsafe for electronic problems, so the CAS module is left open without key to fix key issues.
It isn't all that unusual. I found I could lock and unlock doors with a laptop on a Renault without the key being near, as the locking module doesn't go to sleep.


BMW can't do much with the CAS, but the CAS module has a list of keys that will be allowed, these would be the ones that would be made up in Germany and sent out as replacements.

What then happens is you get a readout from the CAS to see what key is expected next, and then make it.

There's 128bit encryption on the ECUs to stop them being remapped, but they left the "door" open on the car instead.
This really puts me off getting a BMW. Might stick with Audi.

neilkav

Original Poster:

32 posts

31 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
I think the original post stands, there is little point in talking about checking to see if the door has been locked, or to check if someone has jammed your signal. The police who are arresting these car theives have told me they have coded keys direct from BMW. They dont know how they are getting them but they are. so its just as easy for them to steal your BMW as it is for you to just drive it away. Their advice to me was, unless your car is in a secure locked garage 24 /7 dont bother buying a new BMW, especially not a M series as these are the ones getting stolen the most. since january 2012 over 250 BMW's have been stolen in the west midlands region alone.
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BE57 TOY

1,961 posts

33 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
neilkav said:
I think the original post stands, there is little point in talking about checking to see if the door has been locked, or to check if someone has jammed your signal. The police who are arresting these car theives have told me they have coded keys direct from BMW. They dont know how they are getting them but they are. so its just as easy for them to steal your BMW as it is for you to just drive it away. Their advice to me was, unless your car is in a secure locked garage 24 /7 dont bother buying a new BMW, especially not a M series as these are the ones getting stolen the most. since january 2012 over 250 BMW's have been stolen in the west midlands region alone.
Do you mean m sport cars or actually M3s and M5s etc?

Deva Link

26,934 posts

131 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
BE57 TOY said:
This really puts me off getting a BMW. Might stick with Audi.
A mate of mine of mine got rid of his S4 after being mugged for the second time as he approached it.

In Malaysia a biometric protected Mercedes was stolen after the thieves chopped off the owner's finger.

neilkav

Original Poster:

32 posts

31 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
The police told me it was all Msport models that were targeted, not just M3 / M5 models. the 330's, 335's and convertables are shipped abroad and the smaller engine M sports are stripped for parts.

TheEnd

14,319 posts

74 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
Deva Link said:
BE57 TOY said:
This really puts me off getting a BMW. Might stick with Audi.
A mate of mine of mine got rid of his S4 after being mugged for the second time as he approached it.

In Malaysia a biometric protected Mercedes was stolen after the thieves chopped off the owner's finger.
That really puts me off getting an Audi. Might stick with BM.

Deva Link

26,934 posts

131 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
TheEnd said:
That really puts me off getting an Audi. Might stick with BM.
Not an X5 though - apparently car-jacking of X5's is rife.

BE57 TOY

1,961 posts

33 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
TheEnd said:
That really puts me off getting an Audi. Might stick with BM.
Haha. Funny!

I think Audi theft is a lot less rife than BMW theft from a totally flawed key system.

bulldog5046

1,253 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd April 2012 quote quote all
I could just be under-thinking this completely but with OBDII doesnt it require a live 12v feed to work?

Cant we just place a hidden switch somewhere to prevent any tom, dick or harry plugging into it? or better still, change it to an ignition switched feed?

Kananga

403 posts

42 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th April 2012 quote quote all
Apologies if already asked/answered but surely BMW need to address this ? How can they just accept their customers getting ripped off like this with something that is clearly a manufacturer-specific design flaw ?

St John Smythe

4,618 posts

103 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th April 2012 quote quote all
BE57 TOY said:
TheEnd said:
That really puts me off getting an Audi. Might stick with BM.
Haha. Funny!

I think Audi theft is a lot less rife than BMW theft from a totally flawed key system.
Not really. Someone dodgy could work at an Audi dealership and do exactly the same thing by copying owners keys.

Deva Link

26,934 posts

131 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th April 2012 quote quote all
St John Smythe said:
Not really. Someone dodgy could work at an Audi dealership and do exactly the same thing by copying owners keys.
Perhaps the solution is to make sure you get your servicing done a long way from home!

AOK

1,273 posts

52 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th April 2012 quote quote all
Deva Link said:
Perhaps the solution is to make sure you get your servicing done a long way from home!
Customers address on the invoice..... oops

Deva Link

26,934 posts

131 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th April 2012 quote quote all
AOK said:
Customers address on the invoice..... oops
I know, but I was thinking thieves wouldn't bother travelling too far!

BE57 TOY

1,961 posts

33 months

[news] 
Friday 6th April 2012 quote quote all
St John Smythe said:
Not really. Someone dodgy could work at an Audi dealership and do exactly the same thing by copying owners keys.
They could, but they don't. Maybe Audi have better process and controls.

GarryA

4,097 posts

50 months

[news] 
Friday 6th April 2012 quote quote all
BE57 TOY said:
St John Smythe said:
Not really. Someone dodgy could work at an Audi dealership and do exactly the same thing by copying owners keys.
They could, but they don't. Maybe Audi have better process and controls.
On watchdog a few years ago, Merc dealers where doing just that.

D_G

1,552 posts

95 months

[news] 
Friday 6th April 2012 quote quote all

As said previously, just disconnecting the live feed to the OBD socket would prevent it. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has a kit and can initialise a new key whilst the car is locked to prove the point.
BMW should be recalling all these cars for a software update if so.
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