best lease deals?

[ATM]

jdcampbell said:

blindswelledrat said:

Am I missing something here? That deal is 9+23 so it works out at £400 per month plus vat = £480.
NOt that great. Better than buying I brand new and suffering the hit but still a pretty poor way of spending over 5k per year on a car.

It really depends on whether this is the kind of car you want. You are right that this car would cost you £11443 over 2 years. However this is a £52k car. Lets say you got it for £45k - you'd have to be able to sell it for £33k after two years to only spend the same amount of money - and that does not take into account the cost of stumping up the money for the 2 yrs.

In fact two year old <20k miles cars are retailing at £27k and trading at about £22k so if you bought the car it would be costing you at least £20k over the two years, plus the cost of the money.

So if you want a new CLS these lease deals are a no brainer.

The other option is buy one of the mentioned 2nd handers for £22k with some nice toys - these are always added to your lease numbers - and then hope you get more than 11k for it after the 2 years.

[slippery]

ATM said:

The other option is buy one of the mentioned 2nd handers for £22k with some nice toys - these are always added to your lease numbers - and then hope you get more than 11k for it after the 2 years.

Then you're driving around in a £22k car and not a £45k-50k car. Don't get me wrong, I have bought lots more used cars than new ones, but having a new car is lovely. Think of it as an armchair, because let's face it, you do spend a bloody long time sitting on that driver's seat. Would you like an armchair in your lounge that someone else has spent 1000s of hours farting into, eating on, sweating on, smoking on, shagging on, drinking on and whatever else they do on it? Or would you like a nice new one?

[jdcampbell]

ATM said:

The other option is buy one of the mentioned 2nd handers for £22k with some nice toys - these are always added to your lease numbers - and then hope you get more than 11k for it after the 2 years.

The second had option is always the alternative (how about this one, but then there is always the uncertainty and potential cost of something major going wrong and costing a lot of money, and there is likely going to be some bigger maintenance bills as the car would be older.

This is the option that I have chosen to take and, fortunately, in the last few years of BMW ownership I have NOT had any unpleasant surprises. Nevertheless running a 4 year old BMW 330d M Sport over nearly two years (and 32k miles) still cost around £320 per month (including a monthly warranty).

It's not a huge leap to justify another £160 - £200 per month to be driving around in a brand new £52k car instead.

Edited by jdcampbell on Thursday 24th October 17:01

[slippery]

jdcampbell said:

The second had option is always the alternative (how about this one, but then there is always the uncertainty and potential cost of something major going wrong and costing a lot of money, and there is likely going to be some bigger maintenance bills as the car would be older.

This is the option that I have chosen to take and, fortunately, in the last few years of BMW ownership I have NOT had any unpleasant surprises. Nevertheless running a 4 year old BMW 330d M Sport over nearly two years (and 32k miles) still cost around £320 per month (including a monthly warranty).

It's not a huge leap to justify another £160 - £200 per month to be driving around in a brand new £52k car instead.

You're not wrong. If you can afford the extra, why not? Look at what it costs for a decent holiday these days and that's all over in a week or two.

[ATM]

slippery said:

jdcampbell said:

The second had option is always the alternative (how about this one, but then there is always the uncertainty and potential cost of something major going wrong and costing a lot of money, and there is likely going to be some bigger maintenance bills as the car would be older.

This is the option that I have chosen to take and, fortunately, in the last few years of BMW ownership I have NOT had any unpleasant surprises. Nevertheless running a 4 year old BMW 330d M Sport over nearly two years (and 32k miles) still cost around £320 per month (including a monthly warranty).

It's not a huge leap to justify another £160 - £200 per month to be driving around in a brand new £52k car instead.

You're not wrong. If you can afford the extra, why not? Look at what it costs for a decent holiday these days and that's all over in a week or two.

I'm all for buying new cars if you want new. I just bought one - well it had done 2000 miles.

[5to1]

hornetrider said:

Oh indeed. I imagine fairly hefty discounts off list are available if you wander in and actually buy the thing, however I imagine the target price would still be around 45k.

When I was looking around last year I was offered several CLS 350 Sports with reasonable spec for £42k (before any real haggling). In the end I opted for a GC (also got a nice discount of that, as bought a dealer pre-reg).

The RRP is grossly inflated on almost every car these days, just so they can offer what looks like free or very cheap finance. If they priced it at 40k and charged 7-9% rates to borrow their money! most people would baulk. But price it at £52k and offer 0% (or very cheap finance) and many people think they're getting a fantastic deal (some obviously are, but comparing to RRP simply makes a reasonable deal look outstanding). The 3/4/5/C/E//CLS are still the entry level/mid level saloons, yet with a RRP of £52k (before you've even gone heavy handed with the options) they are twice the average salary in the UK :/ personally I call bks on that pricing. Aside from the first 6 months of the models release, or the odd exception, the vast majority sold don't achieve anywhere near list IMO (and experience of buying cars).

[slippery]

You say that, but if you compound up the price of their 1980s and 1990s equivalents, especially if you add what comes as standard these days, today's RRPs look as cheap as chips.

[5to1]

slippery said:

You say that, but if you compound up the price of their 1980s and 1990s equivalents, especially if you add what comes as standard these days, today's RRPs look as cheap as chips.

I think that's a somewhat spurious comparison. Firstly improvements in technology and manufacturing have made many of these options far cheaper. Electric windows are a classic example, they may be free now, but would you honestly believe adding the cost of electric windows to a cars price in 1990 would yield a fairer comparison to today's price? Tea used to be locked away by the well to do, nobody would say PG tips is cheap as chips because tea used to be worth its weight in gold at one time.

In a direct comparison between salaries and RRP my observation over the past 14 years has been that entry to mid level premium cars have increased in price relative to average salaries. IMO that's a more relevant way to compare the cost of a single discretionary commodity then applying inflation figures calculated across a wide range of vastly varying commodities. Moreover, the fact discounts are readily available across almost every vehicle, when once they only used to show up at the end of life cycle demonstrated that RRP is no longer an effective way to estimate the true market price of any of these vehicles.

[slippery]

Compound the price of something like a Boxster up since their launch and you'll see what I mean.

[5to1]

slippery said:

Compound the price of something like a Boxster up since their launch and you'll see what I mean.

Compound with what? If you mean inflation, which measure of inflation? One that includes house prices? One that includes fuel, food? The RPI? As I've said before, IMO for something like a premium brand car, simply measuring against mean or median earnings is a more relevant comparison, as those inflation figures take into account many non discretionary commodities. Ultimately when alls said and done, IMO if a car rarely sells for £52k, it ain't a £52k car. Therefore, the RRP is irrelevant for anything other then the Tax man using it to fleece you.

[Vroomer]

slippery said:

Compound the price of something like a Boxster up since their launch and you'll see what I mean.

Excellent point. I remember seeing heavily specced 2.5 Boxsters in the launch year going for £45k. About 16 years on, the same money buys you a well specced new 2.7 Boxster that is a vastly superior car. Adjusted for inflation the old Boxster would be £55k+.

[slippery]

5to1 said:

slippery said:

Compound the price of something like a Boxster up since their launch and you'll see what I mean.

Compound with what? If you mean inflation, which measure of inflation? One that includes house prices? One that includes fuel, food? The RPI? As I've said before, IMO for something like a premium brand car, simply measuring against mean or median earnings is a more relevant comparison, as those inflation figures take into account many non discretionary commodities. Ultimately when alls said and done, IMO if a car rarely sells for £52k, it ain't a £52k car. Therefore, the RRP is irrelevant for anything other then the Tax man using it to fleece you.

You sound too angry, so I'm just going to nod and agree with you!

[burwoodman]

slippery said:

Compound the price of something like a Boxster up since their launch and you'll see what I mean.

This is quoted so often these days. The truth is cars cost far less to make today than they did even a decade ago-mass production, efficiencies. Car companies have never made so much money.

[slippery]

burwoodman said:

slippery said:

Compound the price of something like a Boxster up since their launch and you'll see what I mean.

This is quoted so often these days. The truth is cars cost far less to make today than they did even a decade ago-mass production, efficiencies. Car companies have never made so much money.

It's just my perception and I've got nothing to back it up, but the price of the more middle market cars like VW Golfs seem to be higher than a couple of decades ago, while the top end cars such as the Mercedes S Class appear cheaper.

[Dr Jekyll]

burwoodman said:

This is quoted so often these days. The truth is cars cost far less to make today than they did even a decade ago-mass production, efficiencies. Car companies have never made so much money.

Are you taking design and tooling costs into account?

[Pickled Piper]

Conract Hire is a great way to run a new car providing you get a good deal. Not all deals are equal.

Drive a brand spanking new car, still under warranty and quite often covered by a maintenance deal. Toss the keys back at the end of the term. What's not to like?

Sure you can run a second hand car for a lot less, especially if you are ready to to the spanner work yourself.

pp

[burwoodman]

Dr Jekyll said:

Are you taking design and tooling costs into account?

Yes absolutely.

[ATM]

Pickled Piper said:

Conract Hire is a great way to run a new car providing you get a good deal. Not all deals are equal.

Drive a brand spanking new car, still under warranty and quite often covered by a maintenance deal. Toss the keys back at the end of the term. What's not to like?

Sure you can run a second hand car for a lot less, especially if you are ready to to the spanner work yourself.

pp

I remember some discussion about the throwing keys back at end being a little bit more involved. Like trying to sell a car to We Buy Any Car Dot Com. Any marks here or there or scuffs or scratches or - well anything at all - and there is a problem / bill.

[jdcampbell]

ATM said:

I remember some discussion about the throwing keys back at end being a little bit more involved. Like trying to sell a car to We Buy Any Car Dot Com. Any marks here or there or scuffs or scratches or - well anything at all - and there is a problem / bill.

You are right - you need to be careful about this point.

Some of the contract hire deals they pay the car tax for the duration of the contract as well.

[burwoodman]

jdcampbell said:

You are right - you need to be careful about this point.

Some of the contract hire deals they pay the car tax for the duration of the contract as well.

Merc openly publish what it considers acceptable and what t doesn't. It looks fair to me. Treat the car like st and you'll be hit with a bill. Look after it as you should and it's fine.