Just started in sales for my local BMW dealer :) Questions..

[gizlaroc]

cindydog3 said:

stuff...

I think 17k miles for a pair of tyres is good!

You seriously quibbled over the amount of fuel you had left in the tank?!

[hornetrider]

Smuler said:

Sytner, my local BMW dealer, invited me to a what they called their "motor show," at a plush golf club. I've never bought a car from them, but the opportunity to drive the cars I wanted, with no over bearing sales spiel and in a relaxed atmosphere was brilliant.

Celtic Manor? If so - gutted! I passed it up as I thought it would be a high pressure sales-a-thon akin to timeshare selling!

[williamp]

we've all had good and bad experiences when buying cars. I have failed three times to buy a BMw/alpina from Sytners in Leicester, but did manage to buy a Merc from the Leicester dealers. This time next year it will need to go back and I need to find another. So I am starting to think about what I need, etc

Two thoughts on dealers:

-the idea of researching the car, etc is a joy. I am dreading dealing with the dealers, add the whole buying experience is not a very pleasant one for me. I don't know why, but they never seem to make if very easy for me. The normal rules from here, Quentin Wilson etc about shopping around, playing hardball etc doesn't seem to work with me. The see me....and the price is fixed. No arguments...

Years ago I nearly bought a new Seat Leon. I knew the colour, the spec. I could easily afford it. The day before I went back to the dealers autocar did a buying guide and showed what offers could be had. Great. What could possibly go wrong??? Only the dealer would not budge. Wouldn't match it. Not even consider it. Even after showing him the article, still nothing. I threatened to walk...nothing. So I did walk.

But of course, I lost out as I still needed a car.

-I did have a good experience of the Merc dealer and I bought a new car from them. I might be looking at another. But (and here is the rub): I cannot remember the name/ what the salesperson looked like. I can possibly remember the desk location, but that is it. So when I walk back into the showroom after 2 years 6 months, all the work that person did to make me feel at home, etc is wasted as he might not get repeat business from me. The dealership might, but not necessarily that person.

I would imagine most people would be the same. So if they are unlikely to get repeat business, why would they go the extra mile???

[cindydog3]

Ref gizlaroc post.

We're talking a 520D F11 Touring. No rocket ship by any stretch of the imagination. Fact was there was still 4mm tread on back tyres + 5mm fronts, one of which was showing slight feathering on outside edge.( subject of other thread here re RFT'S) Previous E61 traded at 23k miles and all tyres still ok, rears 3mm.

Dealer quibbled over tank of fuel initially, worth £100 approx to me.Sure 2 can play at their game, and why not? Better in my pocket than theirs!

[ladderino]

FamousAfroJay said:

What draws you into a dealership to buy? Is it the relationship with a particular sales person? The choice of 2nd hand cars on site? Also, what's the main thing that would put you off and turn you from a loyal buyer to a rival franchise/brand?

I typically buy cars through approved used programmes, so once I've found the car I'm after (can take several months of internet searching), I call the dealer that has the car to arrange a test drive. I live near London and happy to travel all the way around the M25 in order to get the car I want, and have in fact done so in the past.

From there onwards, I'm effectively already on the way to buying the car, so the dealer would have to do something amazingly stupid in order to stop the sale. Some dealers have come close, but each I've wanted the car (quite finicky on spec) so closed the sale.

I would appreciate dealers cutting the BS and not saying things like "I have to talk quietly because the boss might overhear how great the deal is that I'm offering". It's both annoying and insulting.

That said, having recently bought a car from Car Giant (we had moved house and needed to get a second car within the space of a few days) which was a truly miserable affair, if given the choice I'd take the current BMW dealer way of doing things.

[NPI]

cindydog3 said:

I have tended to buy ex "BMW Management" cars over the last few years so Internet is best for me to source cars nationwide at acceptable discounts. Mileages have ranged from 10 miles to 2500 miles and age 3mths to 6 mths.

I know you put BMW Management into quotation marks, but cars of that mileage and age aren't likely to be ex-management cars.

[daemon]

NPI said:

cindydog3 said:

I have tended to buy ex "BMW Management" cars over the last few years so Internet is best for me to source cars nationwide at acceptable discounts. Mileages have ranged from 10 miles to 2500 miles and age 3mths to 6 mths.

I know you put BMW Management into quotation marks, but cars of that mileage and age aren't likely to be ex-management cars.

And not all of them are "bargains" either, as new cars will have complementary upgrades, finance contributions, lower finance rates, higher PCP residual values, subsidised finance deals, and probably 10% off list price anyway. Also whiles they may be 3-6 months old they're usually registered on the previous plate and / or previous year which will impact resale price. Oh, and often they have spec on them you wouldnt otherwise buy.

All of the 7 or so brand new BMWs we've bought in the last 7 years or so have worked out cheaper new than ex demo / ex management cars.

[4rephill]

NPI said:

cindydog3 said:

I have tended to buy ex "BMW Management" cars over the last few years so Internet is best for me to source cars nationwide at acceptable discounts. Mileages have ranged from 10 miles to 2500 miles and age 3mths to 6 mths.

I know you put BMW Management into quotation marks, but cars of that mileage and age aren't likely to be ex-management cars.

They could be ex-management cars, ex-staff cars, ex demonstrators, ex-service cars, surplus stock cars etc., etc.

3~6 months is about the length of time that these cars get used by the dealerships before they're moved on.

I was loaned the Service Managers 5series once for a couple of weeks as My car was having some bodywork done and there were problems with the paint work not being to a standard that was acceptable (No other cars were available so the Manager volunteered his own car for Me to use). It was 4 months old and only had @ 1500 miles on the clock as I recall, and I was informed that they may need it back at short notice as it was actually up for sale as an AUC car (I checked the website and low and behold, there it was!).

So it is feasible that the cars quoted by cindydog3 were ex-management cars.

[cindydog3]

RE. NPI/daemon (must learn to cut and paste!)

BMW describe these as "ex BMW Management" cars. Obviously with cars as low as 10-30 miles are pre-reg whilst those with say 3-7k can be ex staff or ex Hertz. Local BMW dealers here seem to register staff/demos locally (NI) whereas all these others are coming from UK and photographed at same location, perhaps when new with 62/13/63 regs.

Whilst fitted options usually suit us I don't put any value on them in the deal. This time around no visibility pack ie xenons etc. Can't believe how poor the std headlights are. For a car topping £40k approx. list price why in hell should you be obliged to spend a further £1200 to see where you're going !!

Have looked at buying new but numbers do not stack up for me thus far. Agreed you can choose your options/colours etc but can usually find suitable car on internet.

[daemon]

cindydog3 said:

RE. NPI/daemon (must learn to cut and paste!)

BMW describe these as "ex BMW Management" cars. Obviously with cars as low as 10-30 miles are pre-reg whilst those with say 3-7k can be ex staff or ex Hertz. Local BMW dealers here seem to register staff/demos locally (NI) whereas all these others are coming from UK and photographed at same location, perhaps when new with 62/13/63 regs.

Whilst fitted options usually suit us I don't put any value on them in the deal. This time around no visibility pack ie xenons etc. Can't believe how poor the std headlights are. For a car topping £40k approx. list price why in hell should you be obliged to spend a further £1200 to see where you're going !!

Have looked at buying new but numbers do not stack up for me thus far. Agreed you can choose your options/colours etc but can usually find suitable car on internet.

I've not doubt there are bargains out there and you seem to know to search nationally for the best prices.

Its amazing how much variance there is over the same car between different dealers.

I've nothing against buying nearly new, in fact my current Golf TDI is an ex Hertz car bought from a franchised VW dealer.

[NPI]

cindydog3 said:

BMW describe these as "ex BMW Management" cars. Obviously with cars as low as 10-30 miles are pre-reg whilst those with say 3-7k can be ex staff or ex Hertz. Local BMW dealers here seem to register staff/demos locally (NI) whereas all these others are coming from UK and photographed at same location, perhaps when new with 62/13/63 regs.

BMW Management cars are the ones used by BMW UK head office staff and the standard period they're kept is now 9 months - although some will appear on the market earlier for various reasons.

To describe an ex-rental car as ex-BMW Management is outrageous. And dealership owned demonstrators are exactly that - ex-demo.

[cindydog3]

It is my perception that cars with say 3k-7k miles can be ex BMW staff or ex hire, eg Hertz, Europcar etc and my understanding is that the big hire companies get 90 + days credit on new purchases and regularly change at 6 mths. So would make financial sense for them to turn over the cars presumably at 6 mths on perhaps pre-agreed values. BMW dealers then bid BMW UK for them and depending on quantity bought will get a cheapie or 2 thrown in the deal eg slow seller like 640 coupe/7 series.

[NPI]

cindydog3 said:

It is my perception that cars with say 3k-7k miles can be ex BMW staff or ex hire, eg Hertz, Europcar etc

That's fine, and there's no reason not to buy any of them IF you know what you're buying. To my mind there's a big difference between an ex-BMW Management car that's likley to have been driven by one person, and an ex hire car that may well have had the arse ragged out of it, and an ex-demo car which WILL have had the arse ragged out it.

Ex-Management cars are cars used specifically by head office staff - it's not an all-ecompassing term to be used for all ex BMW UK cars.

[gaz1234]

cindydog3 said:

RE. NPI/daemon (must learn to cut and paste!)

BMW describe these as "ex BMW Management" cars. Obviously with cars as low as 10-30 miles are pre-reg whilst those with say 3-7k can be ex staff or ex Hertz. Local BMW dealers here seem to register staff/demos locally (NI) whereas all these others are coming from UK and photographed at same location, perhaps when new with 62/13/63 regs.

Whilst fitted options usually suit us I don't put any value on them in the deal. This time around no visibility pack ie xenons etc. Can't believe how poor the std headlights are. For a car topping £40k approx. list price why in hell should you be obliged to spend a further £1200 to see where you're going !!

Have looked at buying new but numbers do not stack up for me thus far. Agreed you can choose your options/colours etc but can usually find suitable car on internet.

Cut and paste?
Press quote.".

[cindydog3]

gaz1234 said:

Cut and paste?
Press quote.".

Viola! Thanks for that. Am away now to hide in TVR forum!!

[carparkno1]

Well yesterday I did a deal for a 2008 120d coupe at a BMW in the SE. Have to say they were very good to deal with on the two occasions I have been there.

Liked the car... they had knocked a grand off, got another 750 off them to get the price right down for a very well specced 1 coupe. Salesman was very easy to deal with and not condescending at all. Finance/MD guy was a little harder to get to move on the price but I pointed out it had a scratch and needed taxing and we got to where I wanted to be.

So far so good, if they want me back in 24 months to get a 330d touring they are so far doing the right things, but the proof is in the aftersales. To my mind, be straight, be upfront with the customer, don't blind them with bs dealer-speak and work to get to a price and extras that the customer will deal at. If you can do that and be affable then you should do well in selling cars

[MikeGoodwin]

carparkno1 said:

Well yesterday I did a deal for a 2008 120d coupe at a BMW in the SE. Have to say they were very good to deal with on the two occasions I have been there.

Liked the car... they had knocked a grand off, got another 750 off them to get the price right down for a very well specced 1 coupe. Salesman was very easy to deal with and not condescending at all. Finance/MD guy was a little harder to get to move on the price but I pointed out it had a scratch and needed taxing and we got to where I wanted to be.

So far so good, if they want me back in 24 months to get a 330d touring they are so far doing the right things, but the proof is in the aftersales. To my mind, be straight, be upfront with the customer, don't blind them with bs dealer-speak and work to get to a price and extras that the customer will deal at. If you can do that and be affable then you should do well in selling cars

Brace yourself. The aftersales is where it really gets interesting/frustrating.

Ive said it before but the way I have been treated is what makes me want to sack BMW off. But then what else is in the sub 40k bracket thats worth looking at? Merc dont cut it im afraid although my parents have driven C classes for the best part of 15 years now. Faultless cars and the service has been great. Before that they were always buying 3 series and they ALL went wrong and the dealers treated my parents like they were s. One 3er had a crack in the block which dealers wouldnt acknowledge so they had to make them remove the engine to prove it.

[carparkno1]

MikeGoodwin said:

Brace yourself. The aftersales is where it really gets interesting/frustrating.

Ive said it before but the way I have been treated is what makes me want to sack BMW off. But then what else is in the sub 40k bracket thats worth looking at? Merc dont cut it im afraid although my parents have driven C classes for the best part of 15 years now. Faultless cars and the service has been great. Before that they were always buying 3 series and they ALL went wrong and the dealers treated my parents like they were s. One 3er had a crack in the block which dealers wouldnt acknowledge so they had to make them remove the engine to prove it.

Christ that's unacceptable on the engine crack.

[NPI]

williamp said:

-I did have a good experience of the Merc dealer and I bought a new car from them. I might be looking at another. But (and here is the rub): I cannot remember the name/ what the salesperson looked like. I can possibly remember the desk location, but that is it. So when I walk back into the showroom after 2 years 6 months, all the work that person did to make me feel at home, etc is wasted as he might not get repeat business from me. The dealership might, but not necessarily that person.

Have you got the original order form or invoice? The salesman's name should be on there. Or call the dealership and ask them. However the chances of the salesman still being there after 2.5yrs are extremely remote.

[cindydog3]

Slightly off tread here but does involve 2.5 Bmw diesel engined Range Rover.
Worked for a company that ran Range Rovers ie Father,son and me. Basically they bought new and I got a hand-me-down at 18mths to 2yrs old. Some time after getting the 2.5 it started to overheat and we suggested to Main Dealer maybe viscous fan needed replacement. Dealer over a period of 13-15 wks fitted new waterpump,head gasket, cyl head and when none of that cured it advised a new block. At this stage when I called in to remove my personal effects engine was sitting on workshop floor intact. Asked the question, since engine still intact how do they know it needs block. Answer we've replaced everything else! New block later fitted and car collected and deemed to be repaired.

Surprise surprise after a while still overheating. Diagnosis: needs new engine!! Took time to get new engine delivered and eventually car returned to us. Boss did deal to pay % of new engine cost and no labour charges. Lo and behold they had replaced viscous fan which they denied fitting and did not appear on invoice!!

Ok as a good customer no problem supplying me with loan Defender or Freelander etc but hey they were just throwing parts at it.
We're talking a mainline Range Rover distributor here,and 1 of the largest dealerships in this area with specialist car division selling Bentley,Ferrari,Maserati,Jaguar etc.

Would not like to think they service Ferraris in this manner!!!