850 CSi - first steps

[8Tech]

Adrian E said:

That is a great looking finish are they experienced in working with aluminium panels? I need a small dent taking out of my bonnet (double skinned area next to grill) and the stone chips could do with sorting.....

Yes, they do alloy and that wing in the pics is composite! Thats the most difficult material to get a good finish on, but please PM me, I dont want to hijack this great thread by going off topic.

Cheers, 8Tech.

[niki0712]

not much of an update as little has happened but at least a photo of the partly resprayed car in daylight...the colour looks amazing!!!



url]|http://thumbsnap.com/sqKmW5lW[/url]




and now with its new wheels on!!!




no, not really. Gerry was kind enough to lend me a spare set of wheels as I took off the Style 5's for their imminent refurbishment.

[MitchT]

Outrun said:

Interesting Ferrari in the background there - obviously a 355 judging by the shape of the air intake in the door, but with a black lower sill like the first gen. 348!

[RE92]

Seriously envious.

I'm 27 so I've not been exposed to the car in its heyday but I'm still completely in love with the design.

I know now is the time to buy but I don't have the cash or a spare garage to make it happen. By the time I get around to it they will be selling for big money!

Just love the long square body, pop-up lights, quad exhausts, lazy V12 and the huge doors.

Living vicariously through these updates. I know replacing all the parts is expensive but you must get a nice warm feeling knowing it's been done well!

The 850CSi seems as hard to get hold of as a manual TT supra!

[harry kular]

Ant updates OP? Keen to hear (and see) more!

[Polarbert]

Just spent an hour looking through this amazing thread. Really fascinated with it all.

I was tempted to look for an 850csi, and apparently there are only two in the States for sale, both around $50,000, which seems ridiculous!

[8Tech]

No, thats about the going rate for a nice example. Don't forget also that the Stateside example is much lower specced than the Euro CSi too.

[julian64]

RE92 said:

Seriously envious.

I'm 27 so I've not been exposed to the car in its heyday but I'm still completely in love with the design.

I know now is the time to buy but I don't have the cash or a spare garage to make it happen. By the time I get around to it they will be selling for big money!

Just love the long square body, pop-up lights, quad exhausts, lazy V12 and the huge doors.

Living vicariously through these updates. I know replacing all the parts is expensive but you must get a nice warm feeling knowing it's been done well!

The 850CSi seems as hard to get hold of as a manual TT supra!

You didn't miss much. The car wasn't well liked in its heyday. When it came out it had a writeup where it was compared to a ferrari and an XJS on a combination of comfort, handling and pace, and lost out to the XJS on handling. This was the original 850i. I still have the writeups somewhere if anyone is interested.

It was fuel thirsty monster that was pretty much the inferior of the M5 of the day in all but looks. It got worse when they reduced it to 8 cylinders, as it lost its party trick of 0-100 in sixth and its 12 cylinder silky smoothness, however the eye watreing 10-14 mpg mpg probably improved. The csi was an attempt for it to remain with a crown, but the E39 M5 then had better power, much better handling and much less weight.

I took mine on a racetrack and it wasn't very happy, the mpg sunk to about 4 (not really sure on that as it was at its normal 16 and after the evening racing it was at 4 so not sure what the actual figure would have been had I reset it.

I remember trying to chase an XK19 1500cc fiat around brands hatch and not being able to make progress on him .

I still think it remains the best looking BMW ever built, especially the shape and pillarless windows, and the most comfortable front seat drive for cruising.

Dinan had the answer to the car which was to forget the four wheel steering and CSI. To take an 850i and give it twin turbos. I remember it produced just over 500bhp but the cost of the conversion was astronomical. As a turnkey it almost doubled the price of the car. Now that would have had eyewatering fuel consumption

Its lovely to see one being put back to full glory though. Keep up the good work.

[Outrun]

The e39 M5 was introduced 7 years after the CSi so it's hardly fair to compare the two. The M5 was certainly better in some respects but the CSi remains the most comfortable and competent GT that I have ever driven. The high speed handling is sublime, I remember reading the AHK equipped CSi was faster in a slalom test than the 911 turbo of the time.

I don't know why you'd track one though. Not really what it was built to do.

[Outrun]

Double post

[Fezzaman]

Outrun said:

Great to see how the car is coming along and I can't wait to see it finished. I'm embarking on a similar project with an Alpina twist. Unfortunately it looks like I'll have to sell my CSi to fund the B12's restoration.

That's a lovely looking CSi. Look forward to reading the B12 restoration as much as this one. Have you managed to move your CSi on? I don't seem to recall seeing it in PH/AT classifieds

[pits]

Outrun said:

The e39 M5 was introduced 7 years after the CSi so it's hardly fair to compare the two. The M5 was certainly better in some respects but the CSi remains the most comfortable and competent GT that I have ever driven. The high speed handling is sublime, I remember reading the AHK equipped CSi was faster in a slalom test than the 911 turbo of the time.

I don't know why you'd track one though. Not really what it was built to do.

Agreed, like comparing chalk and cheese

[8Tech]

pits said:

Outrun said:

The e39 M5 was introduced 7 years after the CSi so it's hardly fair to compare the two. The M5 was certainly better in some respects but the CSi remains the most comfortable and competent GT that I have ever driven. The high speed handling is sublime, I remember reading the AHK equipped CSi was faster in a slalom test than the 911 turbo of the time.

I don't know why you'd track one though. Not really what it was built to do.

Agreed, like comparing chalk and cheese

Absolutely. The car was never supposed to be a sports car, it was a grand tourer and in that respect it was and is, sublime. It was not received well because it was developed in the years leading up to a recession when it was released, so it was seen as overpriced. It was always more powerful than the M5 of its time which was the E34. This was a high revving barnstormer and only the very last 3.8 6 speed had more power than the cruising V12.

Apart from the CSi, the V8 was an improvement as it became more economical on fuel, upping average consumption from around 18-20 to more like 24-25, was cheaper to maintain, but most important of all, could meet the new emmissions levels required at the time. Completely irrelevant to owners, but vital to manufacturers. The CSi raised the power figure to 380 bhp in Europe, not huge by todays standars, but enough to propel an unrestricted example beyond 175 mph.

To compare it with an XJS is like comparing an E30 M3 to an MGB GT. The 850 would demolish an XJS V12 in every respect.

Strangely enough, I have owner an XJS, E34 M5 3.8 and an 850CSi all in that order so I talk from experience.

[niki0712]

Sorry guys, have been scarce with updates due to some serious lack in progress...matters require more time but we are edging closer to the final day, apparently.

Status quo: car is fully resprayed. Most parts are refitted apart from a bumper, the roof lining and the rear window. The rear and front windows could not be saved after they were dismantled for the respray.

The rear window is on two-week back order from Germany, and costs a painful £1k fitted.

The wheels were refurbished, although only superficially for the moment as a proper refurb will take at least 4 weeks. I haven't seen the result yet.

Hopefully soon now, cannot wait to get my car back!!!

[iSore]

8Tech said:

If they did that, you would have to have a full respray every time you had a small repair done.

The paint code is mixed for each session.

In an ideal world, the match would be 100% perfect each time............

I'm having my trusty E36 resprayed at the mo in the same manner - nearly a full resto with two new doors and a secondhand bonnet. The way it is being done is with the glass and interior removed, door shuts and underbonnet painted, then hang and gap up the doors, wings and bonnet and then paint the whole car in one go - with the doors in a bare state they can be swung open in the booth and the insides/shuts painted again and then closed to paint the sides. That way the car is all one colour, same finish (it will be flatted and mopped once hard enough) and there's no risk of paint chips/damage when trying to hang a pair of doors - they're bloody heavy....amd so is a bonnet. I never understood why some painters paint panels seperately, makes no sense to me.


Fantastic restoration btw - I loved my 840Ci Sport, one of the cars from BMW's golden era.

[pits]

8Tech said:

pits said:

Outrun said:

The e39 M5 was introduced 7 years after the CSi so it's hardly fair to compare the two. The M5 was certainly better in some respects but the CSi remains the most comfortable and competent GT that I have ever driven. The high speed handling is sublime, I remember reading the AHK equipped CSi was faster in a slalom test than the 911 turbo of the time.

I don't know why you'd track one though. Not really what it was built to do.

Agreed, like comparing chalk and cheese

Absolutely. The car was never supposed to be a sports car, it was a grand tourer and in that respect it was and is, sublime. It was not received well because it was developed in the years leading up to a recession when it was released, so it was seen as overpriced. It was always more powerful than the M5 of its time which was the E34. This was a high revving barnstormer and only the very last 3.8 6 speed had more power than the cruising V12.

Apart from the CSi, the V8 was an improvement as it became more economical on fuel, upping average consumption from around 18-20 to more like 24-25, was cheaper to maintain, but most important of all, could meet the new emmissions levels required at the time. Completely irrelevant to owners, but vital to manufacturers. The CSi raised the power figure to 380 bhp in Europe, not huge by todays standars, but enough to propel an unrestricted example beyond 175 mph.

To compare it with an XJS is like comparing an E30 M3 to an MGB GT. The 850 would demolish an XJS V12 in every respect.

Strangely enough, I have owner an XJS, E34 M5 3.8 and an 850CSi all in that order so I talk from experience.

We spent many years looking for an 8er and decided on the 840 over the 850

850 weighs more and has 320bhp
840 weighs less and has 286bhp

extra 150kg makes a difference, but not only that the 850 is much more nose heavy and the handling a bit heavier. The M62 is a brilliant engine and to turn your nose up at it "snobbery" is just silly because the only 850 worth owning (bar an Alpina) is the CSi, otherwise you just have a thirstier and more expensive to maintain 840 with no real advantages in real world running.

The idea of an 8er is to lob your ski's in the back and just fk off to Europe skiing, or blasting to the South of France, yes they don't really fit any category but they are leagues ahead of an XJS, for starters they weren't made by Jag with simply "that'll be alright wont it." (Rhetorical)

Also the M5, XJS didn't have pop up headlights or the most amazing rear window drop ever.

[julian64]

8Tech said:

Absolutely. The car was never supposed to be a sports car, it was a grand tourer and in that respect it was and is, sublime. It was not received well because it was developed in the years leading up to a recession when it was released, so it was seen as overpriced. It was always more powerful than the M5 of its time which was the E34. This was a high revving barnstormer and only the very last 3.8 6 speed had more power than the cruising V12.

Apart from the CSi, the V8 was an improvement as it became more economical on fuel, upping average consumption from around 18-20 to more like 24-25, was cheaper to maintain, but most important of all, could meet the new emmissions levels required at the time. Completely irrelevant to owners, but vital to manufacturers. The CSi raised the power figure to 380 bhp in Europe, not huge by todays standars, but enough to propel an unrestricted example beyond 175 mph.

To compare it with an XJS is like comparing an E30 M3 to an MGB GT. The 850 would demolish an XJS V12 in every respect.

Strangely enough, I have owner an XJS, E34 M5 3.8 and an 850CSi all in that order so I talk from experience.

I think you misunderstand. I bought an 850i because to me, at least, it was far superior in looks and ability to the XJS of its time, so we are arguing on the same side.

My post was in relation to the comments from a previous poster who was imagining the adolation the car would have had in its heyday. I was merely commenting that the car never really did get the heyday it deserved. It was unfairly slammed as a bit of a white elephant by the majority of the road tests when it came out, probably because of the points you've already made.

[Polarbert]

8Tech said:

No, thats about the going rate for a nice example. Don't forget also that the Stateside example is much lower specced than the Euro CSi too.

I see. A bit out of my price range. I was just shocked after seeing one for sale in blighty for £13k or roundabouts that price. Thats about £20k less than the Yank one.

What were the additions on the Euro models compared to the US?

[iSore]

pits said:

We spent many years looking for an 8er

Don't you mean 8 Series?

[carpetsoiler]

iSore said:

pits said:

We spent many years looking for an 8er

Don't you mean 8 Series?

No, he means 8er. It's BMW nerd-speak. In Germany they're referred to like that- 3er, 5er, 8er, etc.

P.S. Awesome project, love the CSi, it's a proper monster of a car and deserves to be a much-vaunted classic.