850 CSi - first steps
Discussion
Amazing thread. Thoroughly enjoyable read, love seeing all the detailed progress photos 
Always loved these since I was about 10 and realised that a guy a few doors up from my parents house had one hidden in the garage, used to get the odd glimpse if I was messing about in the little access road at the back of the house.
Always loved these since I was about 10 and realised that a guy a few doors up from my parents house had one hidden in the garage, used to get the odd glimpse if I was messing about in the little access road at the back of the house.
Nik esounds like its in good hands how did you find out about the German guy and is labour much cheaper than in England? Did your recent not flag any of those items that are now on your lists? Overall how is the paint job and are you happy with it?
Looking forward to the updates!
Looking forward to the updates!
Edited by RC1 on Friday 1st August 20:44
RC1 said:
Nik esounds like its in good hands how did you find out about the German guy and is labour much cheaper than in England? Did your recent not flag any of those items that are now on your lists? Overall how is the paint job and are you happy with it?
Looking forward to the updates!
I found Wolf when I researched for alloy wheel refurbs. I wasn't really getting anywhere, and the company suggested by the body shop did an absolute disappointment of a job, reusing the old bolts, scratching the polished alloy beds etc. Looking forward to the updates!
Edited by RC1 on Friday 1st August 20:44
Not sure what I expected at £150 per wheel but now I have to do all wheels again, as in £600 wasted... However, I digress.
Wolf (www.wokke.de) started off doing wheel refurbs as a hobby, specialising on split rims. He refurbished a few E31, also in his spare time and fell in love with it I guess. Gave up his office job, and now works full time only on those - what a job! Absolute perfectionist. When I dropped off mine he had on his ramps cars from Italy, Norway and a few Germans.
Labour is generally cheaper in Germany, and so a parts. For example I paid £200 for a used fuel pump in England, which is now being replaced for a brand new one for €250.
When I found the car my prerogative was to get it running and road legal. Cosmetics was going to come later.
Gerry did exactly what I asked him to do and got the car running and MOTed. The car works (once it' gets its new pump...) and would probably continue to do so far quite some time.
However, one problem which I had not expected was and is myself. Standing rather than laying under the car gives you a new perspective - and suddenly you want the car not only working - but also beautiful! No rust, powder coated parts, new steering wheel, fully refurbished brakes, in general future proofing the car.
My goal posts have slightly moved since I started. In the beginning I wanted to drive this car after spending as much as necessary, plus a full respray for the eye.
Fat chance.
Now I want a perfect car, a car that not only looks perfect but also is perfect, inside, outside and underneath.
In regards to the paint work I am happy with the job the body shop did. Cost was okay, it did take much longer than I anticipated but I accept the reason why, as discussed earlier in this thread. The door handles are done poorly and will need to be done again.
Overall I would recommend the body shop, however though only for smaller jobs - not for a full respray.
Overall I would recommend the body shop, however though only for smaller jobs - not for a full respray.
Maybe one more angle, to preempt the inevitable and important question of cost. I obviously do not yet know the final figure, and may never as this remains a moving target...I guess I will always find something that could be done on this car.
Anyway. When I started I wanted to do this not cheaply but economically. I was hoping that a car of that mileage is in decent condition and would need minor cosmetic work in order to regain former glory. The 12 years outside in the rain have done more damage than I expected, although nothing serious. Some people may even leave the car in its current condition but as described earlier your expectations grow once you realise the true potential of the car.
One good example is the new roof lining, for over £300. The material is far too thick which makes the sun roof get stuck. Will be stripped and redone with a thinner lining, another expense I had not budgeted for.
An example for cosmetics would be the break calliper as shown in one of the pictures above from earlier. Fine as it is but will now be powder coated in black protecting it from dirt and brake dust for a long time.
So as part of this journey l have learned a new angle in regards to cost. Believe me, it hurts (the above mentioned repairs and amendments in Germany will cost the best part of £4k...) but the end result will be more than worth it. So I went from doing it economically to doing it right and long lasting - obviously whilst trying to avoid going into negative equity.
Interesting and reassuring is that so far I have been offered in excess of £36k for the car which means I am still in the plus! I have no intention to sell but it is good to know that I am not risking my unborn children's' future here...
At the end of the day there are only 42 of those left...and they ain't making any more!
But I am going to stop my ramblings now and rather post more pictures of the progress. Once I get some.
Anyway. When I started I wanted to do this not cheaply but economically. I was hoping that a car of that mileage is in decent condition and would need minor cosmetic work in order to regain former glory. The 12 years outside in the rain have done more damage than I expected, although nothing serious. Some people may even leave the car in its current condition but as described earlier your expectations grow once you realise the true potential of the car.
One good example is the new roof lining, for over £300. The material is far too thick which makes the sun roof get stuck. Will be stripped and redone with a thinner lining, another expense I had not budgeted for.
An example for cosmetics would be the break calliper as shown in one of the pictures above from earlier. Fine as it is but will now be powder coated in black protecting it from dirt and brake dust for a long time.
So as part of this journey l have learned a new angle in regards to cost. Believe me, it hurts (the above mentioned repairs and amendments in Germany will cost the best part of £4k...) but the end result will be more than worth it. So I went from doing it economically to doing it right and long lasting - obviously whilst trying to avoid going into negative equity.
Interesting and reassuring is that so far I have been offered in excess of £36k for the car which means I am still in the plus! I have no intention to sell but it is good to know that I am not risking my unborn children's' future here...
At the end of the day there are only 42 of those left...and they ain't making any more!
But I am going to stop my ramblings now and rather post more pictures of the progress. Once I get some.
Its a real same that you've had to resort to leaving your car in Germany. There is nothing on your list that I haven't done many times on e31's. There are always alternate parts available without the 'e31 surcharge'. Fuel pumps are a good example where the part direct from Bosch is 1/2 the price of an e31 listed part. ABS pumps are another. An e31 part is always hundreds more than the identical 530, 740 or 750 part.
There is nothing mystical about these cars. They just happen to be quite complicated and a little tricky to fathom if you're not used to them. Its very easy for any uk 'specialist' to whack up the price simply because they are fairly rare in this country. Likewise, they're rather unforgiving if jobs aren't done properly. One good side to them is that they're generally very well engineered, resulting is the common failures happening on all of them at roughly the same time/mileage. This means that you can predict many of the failures and replace these parts before they let you down.
My offer still stands - if I can give any help at any time, I'm well versed in e31's, I don't talk bulls
t and I'm in the UK!
If anyone would like to see whats involved in rebuilding an 850, I have dozens of photos of the last 850 I rebuilt, right down to the last bolt!
There is nothing mystical about these cars. They just happen to be quite complicated and a little tricky to fathom if you're not used to them. Its very easy for any uk 'specialist' to whack up the price simply because they are fairly rare in this country. Likewise, they're rather unforgiving if jobs aren't done properly. One good side to them is that they're generally very well engineered, resulting is the common failures happening on all of them at roughly the same time/mileage. This means that you can predict many of the failures and replace these parts before they let you down.
My offer still stands - if I can give any help at any time, I'm well versed in e31's, I don't talk bulls
t and I'm in the UK!If anyone would like to see whats involved in rebuilding an 850, I have dozens of photos of the last 850 I rebuilt, right down to the last bolt!
Edited by Talkwrench on Saturday 2nd August 13:02
[quote=Talkwrench]Its a real same that you've had to resort to leaving your car in Germany. There is nothing on your list that I haven't done many times on e31's.
Sorry Talkwrench, what I said may have come across wrong. By no means do I consider English knowledge or ability substandard compared to German. I was just particularly impressed by the high level of sophistication and creativity by this guy, coupled with reasonable and fair costing.
Just makes it easier to to trust and to digest the mounting worry and cost when engaging in a project like this.
I really appreciate your offer and I will most certainly pick your brains and happily try to benefit from your expertise once the car is back in the country. Thank you!
And those are indeed two very good looking E31 specimen...
Sorry Talkwrench, what I said may have come across wrong. By no means do I consider English knowledge or ability substandard compared to German. I was just particularly impressed by the high level of sophistication and creativity by this guy, coupled with reasonable and fair costing.
Just makes it easier to to trust and to digest the mounting worry and cost when engaging in a project like this.
I really appreciate your offer and I will most certainly pick your brains and happily try to benefit from your expertise once the car is back in the country. Thank you!
And those are indeed two very good looking E31 specimen...
That's a pretty typical 850 radiator, I'm afraid. They run a fairly high coolant pressure and over time the radiator physically bulges and eventually starts to leak at the edges.
I'm sure this chap knows his stuff but just off the top of my head, its worth asking him to:
Change the water pump - they do wear out and its a good bit easier to do with the inlet manifolds off.
Change the two crank sensors - they fail and cause many a breakdown.
Viscous fan clutch - cheap and easy but no fun when they fail
Change all the PCL valves (engine breathers) - they clog and cause rough running and again, are a bit easier with the manifolds off.
Inlet manifold gasket blocks. They're rubber and crack with age. There are four and they're expensive but worth changing.
And just ask him if he blasts the manifolds to clean them up. They should only ever be done with soda. Even a few grains of glass or whatever other abrasive blast media in the inlet tracts will wreak havoc if they get in your engine. You can never be sure they're cleaned out properly. I've seen engines ruined because of this.
There are loads of other little bits and bobs that must be replaced but I'm sure he'll know what is required.
I'm sure this chap knows his stuff but just off the top of my head, its worth asking him to:
Change the water pump - they do wear out and its a good bit easier to do with the inlet manifolds off.
Change the two crank sensors - they fail and cause many a breakdown.
Viscous fan clutch - cheap and easy but no fun when they fail
Change all the PCL valves (engine breathers) - they clog and cause rough running and again, are a bit easier with the manifolds off.
Inlet manifold gasket blocks. They're rubber and crack with age. There are four and they're expensive but worth changing.
And just ask him if he blasts the manifolds to clean them up. They should only ever be done with soda. Even a few grains of glass or whatever other abrasive blast media in the inlet tracts will wreak havoc if they get in your engine. You can never be sure they're cleaned out properly. I've seen engines ruined because of this.
There are loads of other little bits and bobs that must be replaced but I'm sure he'll know what is required.
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