245hp vs 258hp

[smashy]

,,,anyway who cares ,can anyone find me a set of comfort seats instead of the crappy standard ones in my F30(sick smily)

[Welshbeef]

smashy said:

,,,anyway who cares ,can anyone find me a set of comfort seats instead of the crappy standard ones in my F30(sick smily)

Sadly not an option on the F30.


I'd like to have the air cooled seats and massaging seat option on mine but hey comfort seats will have to do .

[drmark]

Welshbeef said:

You are comparing a single turbo diesel to a twin turbo petrol and stating the criticism of the BMW diesel is he lag - step into play the 535d that is the direct competitor to the 535i which then reduces the 2 criticisms you have down to one.

The 535d v 535i performance should be very similar near identical bhp gives the game away there.
Clatter and smell that's certainly a minus for the diesel but the plus is fewer fuel stops which saves time a small amount of direct cash and keeps you warmer during the winter.



( I just love it when PH are protective over their specific P&J makes a nice difference to those who simply consider cars to be white goods for moving things A to B. ).


Oh Fox had a bit of fun in mine today over 30 ish miles cross country and lots of low gear fun -- mpg door to door ended up being 36 that was really pushing it ( making the most of the ice cold air more power but not damp so no ice conditions). I'm sure it would get less but frankly you'd be driving beyond the safe limit of the road and vastly over the speed limit.
Is that important? Its nice to have a fun car and frugal too in one - is it a compromise? Sure I'd love a 997 C2S and a tesla S + but I'd rather spend the money on the family instead. Plus its a superb place to be on a drive those comfort seats all the lot is so so good. Over 3k miles in now and I've filled up 5 times.... In the RS6 it would have been 12 times and let's say 15 mins a go so nearly 2 hours I've saved from being at a petrol station plus £650-700 extra in my sky rocket.

I think your idea of pushing it may be a bit different if your average 36mpg on a cross country blast. I am not advocating silly driving, but I can't get 36mpg on a gentle cross country 10 mile hilly A road commute.

[gizlaroc]

Welshbeef said:

Fox- said:

Wills2 said:

So what exactly is your point?

That petrol > diesel

In a luxo barge I'm not so sure - low rev instant torque v high end/high revs doesn't duit the car.

The 535i does all that, it is a forced induction petrol.

The main difference is, lighter up front so feels sharper, much nicer sound and a better rev range, plus you have the benefit of it being extremely refined, the 535d is good for a diesel, but when you get back in a BMW straight six petrol you realise there is still a long way to go in that regard.

The only reason to go diesel when choosing 535d vs 535i is to save money.

And for many that would be £10 a week at most.

[Welshbeef]

gizlaroc said:

The 535i does all that, it is a forced induction petrol.

The main difference is, lighter up front so feels sharper, much nicer sound and a better rev range, plus you have the benefit of it being extremely refined, the 535d is good for a diesel, but when you get back in a BMW straight six petrol you realise there is still a long way to go in that regard.

The only reason to go diesel when choosing 535d vs 535i is to save money.

And for many that would be £10 a week at most.

Does anyone have the official weight differences between the 535d and 535i

[Welshbeef]

http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bmw_535i_f10.html

535i 1,870 kg

http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bmw_535d.html

535d 1,825 kg

Seems that the diesel is lighter... So less weight over the nose.




{is that weight in the links correct?}

[converted lurker]

It will be about 35kg. Negligible.

[Welshbeef]

Rev range

535i 7k red line
535d 5.5k red line (LCI 6k red line)

Given UK speed limits you could only use the extra 1.5k revs in 1st and 2nd beyond that its nice 70mph - clearly you could break the speed limit but the point of the twin turbo is its huge low down grunt (petrol and diesel) so hanging it out is fine but doubt its very often.

[Wills2]

Fox- said:

Wills2 said:

So what exactly is your point?

That petrol > diesel

Yes it is.

[bigdom]

Welshbeef said:

http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bmw_535i_f10.html

535i 1,870 kg

http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bmw_535d.html

535d 1,825 kg

Seems that the diesel is lighter... So less weight over the nose.

{is that weight in the links correct?}

Its a slow Saturday.... It would appear to be the only site which has them that way around, most have the petrol 50-60kg lighter. An example below.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/specs/detail/?v=ABMWE5...

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/specs/detail/?v=ABMWE5...

[Fox-]

bigdom said:

Its a slow Saturday.... It would appear to be the only site which has them that way around, most have the petrol 50-60kg lighter. An example below.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/specs/detail/?v=ABMWE5...

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/specs/detail/?v=ABMWE5...

We can settle this with figures from my copy of 50 Shades of Grey, sorry, the F10 brochure:

535i: 1775kg unladen (auto)
535d: 1825kg unladen (auto)

[Welshbeef]

bigdom said:

Its a slow Saturday.... It would appear to be the only site which has them that way around, most have the petrol 50-60kg lighter. An example below.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/specs/detail/?v=ABMWE5...

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/specs/detail/?v=ABMWE5...

BMW main site has 535d at 1,810kg while the 535i is 1,765 kg so 45kg more.

There is no data on how /if it changes the. 50:50 weight distribution between the models or that one simply has more weight on its nose.

Still worst case that's 2.5% difference I'd wager no one on the public roads would be able to tell the difference - heck a bigger difference would be full tank of fuel v needing to refuel when its empty car is nose heavy. Etc.



Interesting topic though but frankly its a tiny tolerance between them

[Pentoman]

Have you read my post above Welshy dude? Any thoughts? You should get on that site

Weirdly I'm quite into the 520d. I always seems to prefer the smaller engined versions of cars. I'm not sure if it's the weight issue or something else, they just seem to drive more naturally.

520d, auto, adaptive cruise, and I'd be more than happy for a while.

[Wills2]

smashy said:

,,,anyway who cares ,can anyone find me a set of comfort seats instead of the crappy standard ones in my F30(sick smily)

You'll be able to pick up the sports seats on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221607498158?limghl...

[gizlaroc]

Welshbeef said:

Rev range

535i 7k red line
535d 5.5k red line (LCI 6k red line)

Given UK speed limits you could only use the extra 1.5k revs in 1st and 2nd beyond that its nice 70mph - clearly you could break the speed limit but the point of the twin turbo is its huge low down grunt (petrol and diesel) so hanging it out is fine but doubt its very often.

Your missing the point, it is about being about to hold the car in gear for longer, not having to change in corners etc.
That is what having a larger rev range bring to the table.

I found the step from M3 to 335i painful in that regard, going into a 535d it changed the complete dynamics of the car.




Also, 50kg over the front makes a huge difference.
I had, or Fiona had I should say, a mapped 320d sport touring, and that was one of the most fun cars I have had in the last 10 years, 215bhp but felt really light up front and was a joy because of it.

1595kg vs 1655kg, compared with my 335i, from memory, but it felt so much lighter and more pointy going into corners.


People spend thousands on cars to loose 50kg.
The M3 CSL lost 100kg, and it feels like a different car, that is what? around 5-6%?

Edited by gizlaroc on Saturday 6th December 13:45

[Welshbeef]

gizlaroc said:

Your missing the point, it is about being about to hold the car in gear for longer, not having to change in corners etc.
That is what having a larger rev range bring to the table.

I found the step from M3 to 335i painful in that regard, going into a 535d it changed the complete dynamics of the car.




Also, 50kg over the front makes a huge difference.
I went had, or Fiona had I should say, a mapped 320d sport touring, and that was one of the most fun cars I have had in the last 10 years, 215bhp but felt really light up front and was a joy because of it.

1595kg vs 1655kg from memory, but it felt so much lighter and more pointy going into corners.


People spend thousands on cars to loose 50kg.
The M3 CSL lost 100kg, and it feels like a different car, that is what? around 5-6%?

What's rev range got to do with that's ? It final drive ratio that counts.

I also doubt you'd be holding second gear round a corner at full revs 70mph or if you'd say 3rd then that's 100mph again doubt you'd be doing that so reality is your be going at a much slower speed therefore much less revs. (I'm talking about road not track where speed limits and road safety come into play).

Get what you are saying about spending lots to save a % of weight but were talking about 45kg here so given the relative superior fuel economy the 535d could simply part fill the fuel tank to mitigate that weight disadvantage.


Or if he driver is 100kg v 70kg game over

[gizlaroc]

Huh?

Being able to hold the car between 20-60mph in the same gear is far better than having to change at 50mph.
Of course you could eliminate this with gear ratios, but then you are into getting the power and torque to give maximum performance and that might not give it.

50kg over the front is very different to having it over the rear axle.

Just drive them both back to back and you will see it is a not subtle.

Paper figures mean fk all Welshy.

[Welshbeef]

gizlaroc said:

Huh?

Being able to hold the car between 20-60mph in the same gear is far better than having to change at 50mph.
Of course you could eliminate this with gear ratios, but then you are into getting the power and torque to give maximum performance and that might not give it.

50kg over the front is very different to having it over the rear axle.

Just drive them both back to back and you will see it is a not subtle.

Paper figures mean fk all Welshy.

The 535d can easily do that range in 3rd gear - there cannot be too much of a difference between them as its only just over 1k additional rev range the petrol over the diesel (however I'd guess v max in each gear is very similar)

[JNW1]

gizlaroc said:

The 535i does all that, it is a forced induction petrol.

The main difference is, lighter up front so feels sharper, much nicer sound and a better rev range, plus you have the benefit of it being extremely refined, the 535d is good for a diesel, but when you get back in a BMW straight six petrol you realise there is still a long way to go in that regard.

The only reason to go diesel when choosing 535d vs 535i is to save money.

And for many that would be £10 a week at most.

I agree with the general thrust of what you're saying but, as R300Stuart has righty pointed out, increased range rather than reduced fuel cost is also a valid reason for choosing a 535d over a 535i. In terms of refinement, I agree that if you jump out of one to the other the petrol has a notable advantage; however, that's most evident on start-up and at tick-over and, at (say) 60mph in my F31 335d, it's road noise that's most evident followed by a bit of wind noise - the engine really is almost inaudible and is also pretty smooth as well (albeit I'd concede not quite as good as the petrol in that respect). I think it depends on the type of driving you do but, even as a committed petrolhead, I'd struggle to make the case for a 535i over a 535d if you spend a lot of your time doing longish motorway runs. For a lighter more sporting car I'd still take petrol over diesel every time but in a big heavy barge like a 5-Series a good diesel makes a strong case for itself IMO.

[smashy]

Wills2 said:

You'll be able to pick up the sports seats on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221607498158?limghl...

Wills ,thanks but its not just a case of in and out,Dealers will not do it I would have retro new ,nor will my indy ,too many legalites never mind coding ,airbags electrics.