245hp vs 258hp
Discussion
Wills2 said:
JNW1 said:
My experience and view on mpg is similar to Fox. Did 500 miles from North Yorkshire to Kent and back in my F31 335d this week and it did exactly 43mpg for the round trip (the computer said 46 but it tells porkies!). That's about 14% down on the combined figure and arguably not bad given I had a bit of a delay around the Dartford crossing and wasn't really driving for economy; however, on the same run I'm convinced my E92 335i would have at least achieved its combined figure and would probably have returned around 35mpg. So yes the 335d gives better economy despite being in a bigger, heavier, car but the difference compared to the 335i almost certainly less than 10mpg (i.e. probably only about half of what the official figures would have you believe). That certainly doesn't make the 335d a poor car or a bad choice but to be honest I can't imagine driving in such a way as to achieve the combined figure; in contrast, on a run I reckon I could drive normally and do that quite easily in a 335i.
So you get more power, more torque and better performance + 22% better fuel economy from the 335d. That sounds quite good.
Same for me. Every petrol engined BMW I have owned or driven for more than just a test drive I have found capable of matching the extra urban figure on a careful Motorway run. I appreciate that isn't what extra urban actually simulates, but it remains the case that with my 530i or my 335i for example if I set the cruise to 70 and sat back it'd average around the extra urban figure.
By contrast with every BMW diesel - and it's a lot as almost all loan or courtesy vehicles are diesel too - doing the same thing gets you just above combined and nothing like the urban figure.
I can only conclude that something in the NEDC test cycle is something diesels are rather better at.
By contrast with every BMW diesel - and it's a lot as almost all loan or courtesy vehicles are diesel too - doing the same thing gets you just above combined and nothing like the urban figure.
I can only conclude that something in the NEDC test cycle is something diesels are rather better at.
Thing is if you drive say a 300-350bhp diesel and drive it properly you'll probably get at worst 36mpg do the same in a petrol it would be what teens?
Either way even if it doesn't they make good "performance cars". I like derv and petrol - generally forced induction (only N/A I've liked and driven is the E46 M3 but on the UK roads by the time you get full power its into illegal speeds at anything above 2nd gear which is very frustrating. On track fine but on the UK roads its pretty pointless. IMHO.
Either way even if it doesn't they make good "performance cars". I like derv and petrol - generally forced induction (only N/A I've liked and driven is the E46 M3 but on the UK roads by the time you get full power its into illegal speeds at anything above 2nd gear which is very frustrating. On track fine but on the UK roads its pretty pointless. IMHO.
JNW1 said:
Wills2 said:
JNW1 said:
My experience and view on mpg is similar to Fox. Did 500 miles from North Yorkshire to Kent and back in my F31 335d this week and it did exactly 43mpg for the round trip (the computer said 46 but it tells porkies!). That's about 14% down on the combined figure and arguably not bad given I had a bit of a delay around the Dartford crossing and wasn't really driving for economy; however, on the same run I'm convinced my E92 335i would have at least achieved its combined figure and would probably have returned around 35mpg. So yes the 335d gives better economy despite being in a bigger, heavier, car but the difference compared to the 335i almost certainly less than 10mpg (i.e. probably only about half of what the official figures would have you believe). That certainly doesn't make the 335d a poor car or a bad choice but to be honest I can't imagine driving in such a way as to achieve the combined figure; in contrast, on a run I reckon I could drive normally and do that quite easily in a 335i.
So you get more power, more torque and better performance + 22% better fuel economy from the 335d. That sounds quite good.
Fox- said:
I can only conclude that something in the NEDC test cycle is something diesels are rather better at.
Yes, I suspect you could well be right. In my experience the quoted combined figures for diesels are optimistic to the point of being unachievable (unless you drive like a granny) whereas those for petrols seem more realistic and can be exceeded on a run. The diesels are of course still better in absolute terms but anyone who's looking to buy one purely for cost saving reasons needs to do their homework and go in with their eyes open; even on 20k miles a year I reckon an F31 335d won't save more than a tenner a week in fuel over a 335i which isn't really that significant in the context of the cost of buying and running cars like that. Fortunately, however, the engine in the 335d has merits beyond just its relative fuel economy and if I could wind the clock back I'd still order an F31 335d in preference to an F31 335i; would be nice if the fuel consumption claims were more realistic but even at "only" high 30's/low 40's the 335d is still a very competent machine!
Welshbeef said:
Thing is if you drive say a 300-350bhp diesel and drive it properly you'll probably get at worst 36mpg do the same in a petrol it would be what teens?
Rubbish.If you are driving in such a way to get teens out of a petrol you won't be getting 36mpg from a 535d.
My commute used to get 18-19mpg or so in the winter from my 530i. I now get about 21-22 in my 530d.
Fox- said:
Welshbeef said:
Thing is if you drive say a 300-350bhp diesel and drive it properly you'll probably get at worst 36mpg do the same in a petrol it would be what teens?
Rubbish.If you are driving in such a way to get teens out of a petrol you won't be getting 36mpg from a 535d.
My commute used to get 18-19mpg or so in the winter from my 530i. I now get about 21-22 in my 530d.
Its In his recent Autocar videos - given his exposure to these cars and the ability to use the power it adds a notable amount of weight to my statement.
Welshbeef said:
Steve Sucliffe (Autocar) seems to think his D3 360bhp does 43-46mpg but when thrashing it it will not go under 36mpg whereas the M3 would be 10-15mpg.
Does he now. Well I have the same engine in my car - with LESS power - and it very regularly goes under 36mpg.It's on 25mpg at the moment.
10mpg from an M3 would mean you were seriously caning it. No chance is the diesel hitting 36mpg with that sort of driving.
Fox- said:
Does he now. Well I have the same engine in my car - with LESS power - and it very regularly goes under 36mpg.
It's on 25mpg at the moment.
10mpg from an M3 would mean you were seriously caning it. No chance is the diesel hitting 36mpg with that sort of driving.
Well take a look at the video that's what he claims It's on 25mpg at the moment.
10mpg from an M3 would mean you were seriously caning it. No chance is the diesel hitting 36mpg with that sort of driving.
Fox- said:
Does he now. Well I have the same engine in my car - with LESS power - and it very regularly goes under 36mpg.
It's on 25mpg at the moment.
10mpg from an M3 would mean you were seriously caning it. No chance is the diesel hitting 36mpg with that sort of driving.
Generally I'm with you on all this Fox but I must admit to being slightly surprised at the mpg Mr Sutcliffe seems to be getting from his long-term D3; from memory it was quoted at something like 42 or 43 in the last update and that's pretty good going bearing in mind he won't exactly be driving for economy. I remember thinking at the time that he's getting better fuel consumption from a D3 than I'm managing from a 335d and, while I know the F31 is a bit bigger and heavier and has 4WD, I'm sure I won't be driving anything like as as hard as Sutters! Perhaps one explanation is that he's quoting the fuel consumption off the trip computer in which case the true mpg figure probably starts with a 3 (which is still very impressive given the performance on offer in a D3!). It's on 25mpg at the moment.
10mpg from an M3 would mean you were seriously caning it. No chance is the diesel hitting 36mpg with that sort of driving.
Fox- said:
He probably does rather a lot of long distance work though rather than local running about, hence the impressive economy.
But then an M3 isnt going to 10mpg used for fast long distance touring either..
Possibly - I'd wager the way to tell is the average miles he is doing as a guess. But then an M3 isnt going to 10mpg used for fast long distance touring either..
Lack of 4wd will save a chunk over the 335d.
On the OBC my F10 535d is under reading v brim to brim by about 1.5-2mpg (which was a nice problem to find)/not interested in any way of updating it for closer accuracy.
What I don't get is how a 335d which has very similar average mpg and absolute daily distances yet achieves >20% less economy. I have air con/climate on all the time and generally heated seats on too it does go into sport mode at least once on each 25 mile drive to and from the office and I do give it full power.
Driving my old E90 330d 231bhp in exactly the same way on the same route it gave about 1-2mpg worse over the F10. However on long trips I could get that into the 50's mpg and that was brim to brim calculation - to date I've not really done an equivalent long trip instead more shorter trips.
Fox- said:
Welshbeef said:
Thing is if you drive say a 300-350bhp diesel and drive it properly you'll probably get at worst 36mpg do the same in a petrol it would be what teens?
Rubbish.If you are driving in such a way to get teens out of a petrol you won't be getting 36mpg from a 535d.
My commute used to get 18-19mpg or so in the winter from my 530i. I now get about 21-22 in my 530d.
So 46.8mpg @ a commuting average speed of 35mph in a 535d. How lighter cars with the same or smaller engines achieve less is odd. Note I've found my OBC is consistently under reading v brim to brim by 1.5mpg.
So anyone getting better? Note this is comfort mode - don't have Eco pro.
Welshbeef said:
Just to add - I have just commuted M4/M25 at motorway speeds (and this is a door to door reading - not reset on m way).
So 46.8mpg @ a commuting average speed of 35mph in a 535d. How lighter cars with the same or smaller engines achieve less is odd. Note I've found my OBC is consistently under reading v brim to brim by 1.5mpg.
So anyone getting better? Note this is comfort mode - don't have Eco pro.
Sorry to sound slightly dismissive but to get a meaningful mpg figure I think you need to measure over a much longer distance than 34 miles; multiply that by 100 and you're starting to talk about something representative but figures relating to relatively short journeys one-off journeys don't mean much IMHO.....So 46.8mpg @ a commuting average speed of 35mph in a 535d. How lighter cars with the same or smaller engines achieve less is odd. Note I've found my OBC is consistently under reading v brim to brim by 1.5mpg.
So anyone getting better? Note this is comfort mode - don't have Eco pro.
JNW1 said:
Sorry to sound slightly dismissive but to get a meaningful mpg figure I think you need to measure over a much longer distance than 34 miles; multiply that by 100 and you're starting to talk about something representative but figures relating to relatively short journeys one-off journeys don't mean much IMHO.....
I think you'll find the very vast majority of commutes are far less than 34 miles as such its a highly representative measurement. In fact putting down a very long trip is utterly meaningless really - unless of course you do that very often. Also to add it was 2 degrees when I set off too so a very cold start on commuting distance through have commuting traffic - possibly one of the most representative results Possible.
Clearly I could have carried on driving but guess what the mpg was increasing all the way until I came to a stop so it would actually be even higher on any longer trip -- is that the point you were making? That in fact I could have got notably higher if I'd driven 3 or 4 times the dostance which would mitigate the cold start period of low mpg plus mitigate the low mpg but of getting to the m way?
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