550i Touring no more

[r999]

Synchromesh said:

But the 550i won't average 28mpg in the real world though, will it?

It will. Mine is an E61 LCI 550i and I get 26 if I include some town work and some very hard acceleration in the country. If I'm a bit more restrained, I can get 28 over weeks of mixed use, and if I try hard on a cruise, 32. (I have seen 35 on a 60-mile run.) I admit I do not sit much in stationary traffic with it, and if I do I turn off the engine. But this (the 4.8) is a dated engine. The F11 is considerably more economical, and the F11 LCI improved things further.

[redtwin]

Is that with an autobox?. Quite impressive figures nonetheless.

[gizlaroc]

daemon said:

RE: the small well geared diesel nannyed everywhere, thats what i have now and do - I've a 1.6TDI golf as i've a 90 mile return daily commute. Getting 65.6MPG over the last 15,000 miles brimming it each time. Thats worthwhile........

Exactly, that I get.
Buying something that will give a genuine 60mpg+ makes sense.

But the 535d, 640d, 3.0tdi bi turbo, E350cdi etc. etc. is making less and less sense.
I don't think people realise just how much petrols have improved economy wise since they last owned one 10 years ago.
Many got into diesel with a 318tds or a 1.9tdi, and compared with the 318i or the 1.8 it was a no brainer, both had the same 0-60mph times but the diesel would do 55mpg compared with the petrols 25mpg, diesel was the obvious choice, the sensible choice. But things have changed, many diesels are hitting mid thirties now because people want the power, and the more powerful petrol is getting around 20% less, but with a 10% saving at the pump.
So is the compromise of it being a diesel really worth it any more? I'm not so sure.
And as you say, diesels are no longer the car that is trouble free for 250k miles, they tend to be far more delicate than petrols, and they have the joy of DPFs etc. too.

When you see 550i's up for the same price as a 530d I really do wonder why anyone doing less than 25k miles a year would even consider the diesel.

[Shambler]

gizlaroc said:

daemon said:

RE: the small well geared diesel nannyed everywhere, thats what i have now and do - I've a 1.6TDI golf as i've a 90 mile return daily commute. Getting 65.6MPG over the last 15,000 miles brimming it each time. Thats worthwhile........

Exactly, that I get.
Buying something that will give a genuine 60mpg+ makes sense.

But the 535d, 640d, 3.0tdi bi turbo, E350cdi etc. etc. is making less and less sense.
I don't think people realise just how much petrols have improved economy wise since they last owned one 10 years ago.
Many got into diesel with a 318tds or a 1.9tdi, and compared with the 318i or the 1.8 it was a no brainer, both had the same 0-60mph times but the diesel would do 55mpg compared with the petrols 25mpg, diesel was the obvious choice, the sensible choice. But things have changed, many diesels are hitting mid thirties now because people want the power, and the more powerful petrol is getting around 20% less, but with a 10% saving at the pump.
So is the compromise of it being a diesel really worth it any more? I'm not so sure.
And as you say, diesels are no longer the car that is trouble free for 250k miles, they tend to be far more delicate than petrols, and they have the joy of DPFs etc. too.

When you see 550i's up for the same price as a 530d I really do wonder why anyone doing less than 25k miles a year would even consider the diesel.

Residuals

[r999]

redtwin said:

Is that with an autobox?. Quite impressive figures nonetheless.

Yes, the six-speed auto. The newer car of course has the 8-speed auto which is one reason why it's more economical.

[gizlaroc]

Shambler said:

Residuals

Yeah, if buying new I agree, that was always the case. But many pay a premium at 1-5 years old for the derv.

And when they get to 7 years old or more the petrols start to claw that back.

Also, I'm not actually that sure if they do have better residuals any more, I think as they are becoming rarer and rarer the petrols are sometimes doing better.
Look at the pice of 530i vs 530d, and 535i vs 535d, E350 vs E350cdi etc. etc.

The real bargains however seem to be the big boys, 550i, E500 etc. etc. But that is more a case that most think that £70,000 for a new 5 series or E Class is too much, if we had the 550d at £75,000 I reckon it would also loose shed loads and not be all that much more than a 535d after 3 years.

[tali1]

Extra Urban mpg 36.2 mpg hehe - some Pher will claim gets that-or better
Annual Tax £280 -that's not bad
Tiff had/has a 550i
DVLA figures

http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q...

[redtwin]

Some were £500, it depends on the year.

I know that amount is insignificant compared to fuel, repair and maintenance costs etc, but I know I would have a hard time handing that amount over every year in return for a little circle of paper.

Come October you won't even get that for your money.

[tali1]

redtwin said:

Some were £500, it depends on the year.

I know that amount is insignificant compared to fuel, repair and maintenance costs etc, but I know I would have a hard time handing that amount over every year in return for a little circle of paper.

Come October you won't even get that for your money.

yes

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/advice/road-tax-guid...

and £860.00 showroom tax on new ones...
But just bear in mind - and yes i have sat down and calculated it...

A new LR Defender has £1000 first year VED- probably lowest bhp car @120bhp with highest tax (£8.33 per bhp)
Here's a sobering thought -a Daihatsu Terios jumps £135 to £270 after Mar 2001 - historical VED inflation equates to a thumping 26.5 YEARS
In other words, £135.00 Terios owner would pay £270 in..... 2038
Also Terios costs £3.21 per bhp/£ -probably highest of any used car

[redtwin]

I was paying £280 for my previous 150bhp car and the current 330bhp car is the same price.

[Helicopter123]

Shambler said:

gizlaroc said:

daemon said:

RE: the small well geared diesel nannyed everywhere, thats what i have now and do - I've a 1.6TDI golf as i've a 90 mile return daily commute. Getting 65.6MPG over the last 15,000 miles brimming it each time. Thats worthwhile........

Exactly, that I get.
Buying something that will give a genuine 60mpg+ makes sense.

But the 535d, 640d, 3.0tdi bi turbo, E350cdi etc. etc. is making less and less sense.
I don't think people realise just how much petrols have improved economy wise since they last owned one 10 years ago.
Many got into diesel with a 318tds or a 1.9tdi, and compared with the 318i or the 1.8 it was a no brainer, both had the same 0-60mph times but the diesel would do 55mpg compared with the petrols 25mpg, diesel was the obvious choice, the sensible choice. But things have changed, many diesels are hitting mid thirties now because people want the power, and the more powerful petrol is getting around 20% less, but with a 10% saving at the pump.
So is the compromise of it being a diesel really worth it any more? I'm not so sure.
And as you say, diesels are no longer the car that is trouble free for 250k miles, they tend to be far more delicate than petrols, and they have the joy of DPFs etc. too.

When you see 550i's up for the same price as a 530d I really do wonder why anyone doing less than 25k miles a year would even consider the diesel.

Residuals

This.

Large petrol engined cars generally financial suicide for first couple of owners. Thereafter the VED will continue to hammer the residual until they arrive in shed territory. Make no mistake, these will sadly continue to fall heavily.

[c7xlg]

I also had an E61 550i SE. I bought her with 18K miles and sold 5 years later with 120K.

Replaced with a E350CDI. I'm averaging 35+mpg in the Merc and love the 600+mile range with the 80l tank. However it looks like I@m going to be move like 10-15K miles pa from now on rather than the 20Kplus I used to do so at replacement time I will belooking at BMW 535i petrol I think as I'm not enjoying the diesel. Main issues are:

1) sounds horrible
2) narrow power band
3) 'turbo lag', especially when out of power band (combination really of power band, turbo lag and not the world's best autobox)
4) lack of omph when going for the 2-3 car overtakes on the country roads around us.

I think the 550i was overkill performance wise really. IMHO 300-350bhp is 'enough' in a luxo-barge. How often will you use the extra power in a car that isn't focused like a 'true' M car?

[Helicopter123]

c7xlg said:

I also had an E61 550i SE. I bought her with 18K miles and sold 5 years later with 120K.

Replaced with a E350CDI. I'm averaging 35+mpg in the Merc and love the 600+mile range with the 80l tank. However it looks like I@m going to be move like 10-15K miles pa from now on rather than the 20Kplus I used to do so at replacement time I will belooking at BMW 535i petrol I think as I'm not enjoying the diesel. Main issues are:

1) sounds horrible
2) narrow power band
3) 'turbo lag', especially when out of power band (combination really of power band, turbo lag and not the world's best autobox)
4) lack of omph when going for the 2-3 car overtakes on the country roads around us.

I think the 550i was overkill performance wise really. IMHO 300-350bhp is 'enough' in a luxo-barge. How often will you use the extra power in a car that isn't focused like a 'true' M car?

Try the latest 5 with the 8 speed auto box, transforms the driving experience.

You shouldn't notice too much noise with the windows up either.

[Cheib]

r999 said:

jboy72 said:

The e61 550i was even rarer in SE spec than Sport - Sometimes I wonder whether mine is the only one on the road!

That makes two of us.

What I am fairly certain of is that if one considers optional extras, each of these cars is unique in the UK. The first owner of mine put £14,000 of options on it. Then he drove it just 2000 miles a year. Thank you very much, sir!

I remember seeing one in Hexagon's showroom years ago....the owner had ordered it as his own car and then decided he didn't want it. The Head of Sales wasn't exactly sure what he was going to do with it!

IIRC it was £55k or so which was a decent amount of wedge then....I was just buying a 535d Sport which I'd ticked most of the boxes on and I think cost me £43k.

[gizlaroc]

Helicopter123 said:

This.

Large petrol engined cars generally financial suicide for first couple of owners. Thereafter the VED will continue to hammer the residual until they arrive in shed territory. Make no mistake, these will sadly continue to fall heavily.

Yeah they are, but now we have large diesel engined cars too they are the same, it is not the engine, it is the cost of the car new for what they are that is the killer.

If you wanted the top of the range you had no choice but to buy petrol, 750i, 550i, 4.2 A8, 645i etc. etc.

That is changing as we are now getting 3.0tdi bi-turbo, 640d, 740d.

The residuals on those are just as bad as the petrol version. It is not the fact hey are petrol, it is the fact that most people don't see a 6 series is really worth £67,000 new, or don't think that an Audi A6 estate should hit £65,000 with a couple of options ticked. So when they hit the used market they find their true value, and hence loose so much money.

I bought my 535d sport touring for £34,000 at a year old, this was a £55,000 car with HUD, Pano roof blah blah blah.
It was prices around £4k more than a 520d M-Sport with leather and nav, which would have only cost around £36k new, some £20,000 less.

And why you can buy a 640d at 18 months old with 50% off list, the 640i is no cheaper.

Expensive cars loose more money, regardless of whether they are petrol or diesel.
One of the best residual cars on the market is the FFRR which holds 56% of its value over the first 3 years, however, 44% of £100,000 is still a big chunk.

[Helicopter123]

gizlaroc said:

Helicopter123 said:

This.

Large petrol engined cars generally financial suicide for first couple of owners. Thereafter the VED will continue to hammer the residual until they arrive in shed territory. Make no mistake, these will sadly continue to fall heavily.

Yeah they are, but now we have large diesel engined cars too they are the same, it is not the engine, it is the cost of the car new for what they are that is the killer.

If you wanted the top of the range you had no choice but to buy petrol, 750i, 550i, 4.2 A8, 645i etc. etc.

That is changing as we are now getting 3.0tdi bi-turbo, 640d, 740d.

The residuals on those are just as bad as the petrol version. It is not the fact hey are petrol, it is the fact that most people don't see a 6 series is really worth £67,000 new, or don't think that an Audi A6 estate should hit £65,000 with a couple of options ticked. So when they hit the used market they find their true value, and hence loose so much money.

I bought my 535d sport touring for £34,000 at a year old, this was a £55,000 car with HUD, Pano roof blah blah blah.
It was prices around £4k more than a 520d M-Sport with leather and nav, which would have only cost around £36k new, some £20,000 less.

And why you can buy a 640d at 18 months old with 50% off list, the 640i is no cheaper.

Expensive cars loose more money, regardless of whether they are petrol or diesel.
One of the best residual cars on the market is the FFRR which holds 56% of its value over the first 3 years, however, 44% of £100,000 is still a big chunk.

Can't disagree with much of that other than to say be wary of the quoted residual on the FFRR - the market for these is just starting to change. Same story with the RRS.

Range toppers always lose more.

[Fox-]

gizlaroc said:

When you see 550i's up for the same price as a 530d I really do wonder why anyone doing less than 25k miles a year would even consider the diesel.

Which, F10 wise, you really, really don't see this. I thought the same, why not get a 550i? Nobody wants them, right? They are £27k+ for a 2010. The equivalent 530d is thousands and thousands cheaper.

It works for 535i v 530d, they are generally the same money. But then you realise there are 25 530d for every 1 535i which means unless you literally don't care what colour it is or what options it has, you are going to be searching for ever more for the right 535i.

So you end up with a 530d even though you've no real need for a diesel simply because when buying used, there isn't really anything else if that's the sort of car you want.

All of your points re: running costs make perfect sense but still people buy diesel not petrol so the used market just doesn't contain the choice you need to buy the right car.

[Babw]

If they do rid of the high powered petrol models from the "standard" range, there's always a chance they come rebadged as M550i, M535i etc as the marketing department probably have some data showing the M appeals to a different market.

[scz4]

I still miss my E61 550i manual M Sport touring At the time I changed from a E61 530d and lost 5 mpg like for like, definitely worth it. However, I think the gap with the newer diesel range is much bigger. (Now have a F11 525d)

There are two F11 550i's on the AUC website, the silver one has been for sale for 8 months now and it fully loaded, just about every option ticked! It was up at early £40's now £36K.

Edited by scz4 on Sunday 20th April 07:58

[Fox-]

scz4 said:

There are two F11 550i's on the AUC website, the silver one has been for sale for 8 months now and it fully loaded, just about every option ticked! It was up at early £40's now £36K.

It always amazes me why some dealers put cars up at such optimistic money. If that car was £36k 8 months ago perhaps they'd have sold it by now. I often come across nice cars at OTT money that if you ring up and bid them £5k under they'll send you away with a flea in your ear yet 4 months later it'll still be there but... £5k cheaper.

Surely as franchised main dealers nobody knows what these cars are worth better than them?