Z4 Advice please

Z4 Advice please

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madasafrog666

Original Poster:

210 posts

167 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Hi all, thinking of buying the wife a Z4.( she wants one ) I have my eyes on a 60 plate 2.3i s drive M 2.5lt. is this the best model? or can you recommend the best one to go for?
PS been on here ages just never owned a BM, TVR man myself, no rude comments please!!

Thanks

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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Can't comment on that actual model but my wife has a 2.0SE bought new in 2008. The SE has a decent ride, even with RFTs and enough power for her, together with good economy. She loves it and I don't mind it when the weather's good.

It was serviced for the third time last week, at 6 years old. Including MOT and brake fluid change the bill was £270, taking the total maintenance cost over its life to £670. Still on original tyres (and everything else for that matter) at 23000 miles.

Maybe not the sports car in the TVR mould but a lot going for them as a reliable, usable 2 seat drop top.


Morry10

165 posts

184 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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I have driven both the one you are looking at and have owned the N20 engined M-Sport 20i 4 pot turbo model for two years now:



Liked them both so cannot see a real downside with either as such - people will tell you that the 6 cylinder is the one to have, the noise blah blah but tbh the way they have done the new 4 cylinder and tuned the exhaust note it actually sounds really pretty good (especially with the roof down).

Lower road tax on the 4 pot as it is a lower Co2 and better overall MPG (if these are considerations?)

The runflats are a tad annoying at times (road noise / general crashiness over potholes and the like) but the car has huge amounts of grip.

M-Sport one is the better looker imho (differently styled front and rear etc) and you want 18 inch wheels - the 19 inch 326M's have a nasty tendency to crack and BMW appear to be getting rather fed up replacing them under warrantysmile

Performance between the two is pretty much identical apart from the 4 pot having a better spread of torque and imho is better for day to day driving because of it - plus unlike the naturally aspirated 23i you have the option of remapping it and the engine has the potential for pretty big power if this is something you are interested in (costs can be quite high for this aspect however).

Happy to answer any other questions you may have (if I can!)

Good luck with your search

Cheers

Sign up to the Z4 Owners forum - plenty of enthusiastic and knowledgeable people on there and a friendly bunch too!

Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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madasafrog666 said:
Hi all, thinking of buying the wife a Z4.( she wants one ) I have my eyes on a 60 plate 2.3i s drive M 2.5lt. is this the best model?
No, it is the worst model.

The 6 cylinder engines in the Z4 are not the efficient N53 engines but the older (Though arguably more reliable) N52 engines because it's sold mostly in non-EU markets where the N53 isn't a suitable engine.

The result is that pretty much every 6 pot Z4 delivers the same fuel economy and running costs, with the 35i about 5% more thirsty. Therefore buying the 23i is totally pointless, as you pay 30i money to run it but get nothing like 30i performance from it.

The only base Z4 that makes sense is the newer 20i, because at least it gives you efficiency to go with its lack of performance.

sam greenock

294 posts

119 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
quotequote all
madasafrog666 said:
Hi all, thinking of buying the wife a Z4.( she wants one ) I have my eyes on a 60 plate 2.3i s drive M 2.5lt. is this the best model? or can you recommend the best one to go for?
PS been on here ages just never owned a BM, TVR man myself, no rude comments please!!

Thanks
I've just finished with one of those, mines was the Highline Edition M-Sport Auto
On the whole it was ok, not a car for long journeys though as the stiff suspension and 19" alloys and runflats were rather unforgiving but on shorter runs with winding roads it was excellent.
The main reason I traded it in was because it was playing havoc with my knee and for my 180 mile round trip commute was killing my back...........and to get an F10 M5

With the roof down it sounds great, I would recommend the auto version though

Biggriff

2,312 posts

283 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
quotequote all
We have a 245bhp 2.0 twin power version. Seems economical and powerful. Handling good but ride on run flats a bit crashy.

To be honest I would go for the 35i, but that's more money, but a much nicer machine.

madasafrog666

Original Poster:

210 posts

167 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for all the comments and advice. The car is only going to be used for short ish journeys and maybe some weekend fun with the top down ( but when the sun shines its difficult not to use the TVR!! )
So OK for the daily commute for the missus, reliable and fairly cheap to maintain.

Thanks.

madasafrog666

Original Poster:

210 posts

167 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
quotequote all
Morry10 said:
I have driven both the one you are looking at and have owned the N20 engined M-Sport 20i 4 pot turbo model for two years now:



Liked them both so cannot see a real downside with either as such - people will tell you that the 6 cylinder is the one to have, the noise blah blah but tbh the way they have done the new 4 cylinder and tuned the exhaust note it actually sounds really pretty good (especially with the roof down).

Lower road tax on the 4 pot as it is a lower Co2 and better overall MPG (if these are considerations?)

The runflats are a tad annoying at times (road noise / general crashiness over potholes and the like) but the car has huge amounts of grip.

M-Sport one is the better looker imho (differently styled front and rear etc) and you want 18 inch wheels - the 19 inch 326M's have a nasty tendency to crack and BMW appear to be getting rather fed up replacing them under warrantysmile

Performance between the two is pretty much identical apart from the 4 pot having a better spread of torque and imho is better for day to day driving because of it - plus unlike the naturally aspirated 23i you have the option of remapping it and the engine has the potential for pretty big power if this is something you are interested in (costs can be quite high for this aspect however).

Happy to answer any other questions you may have (if I can!)

Good luck with your search

Cheers

Sign up to the Z4 Owners forum - plenty of enthusiastic and knowledgeable people on there and a friendly bunch too!
Great looking car thanks for the advice.

Dryce

310 posts

131 months

Monday 21st April 2014
quotequote all
madasafrog666 said:
Hi all, thinking of buying the wife a Z4.( she wants one ) I have my eyes on a 60 plate 2.3i s drive M 2.5lt. is this the best model? or can you recommend the best one to go for?
It's not that fast. It's heavy.

Personally my vote goes with the 6 cylinder engine. It's sweet IMO. Fuel economy isn't impressive by today's standards - but if that's really a concern in this sector then there's always a diesel SLK.

Make sure you get a good test drive and over some roads that you will actually traverse if possible. The road noise/vibration and the suspension are not strong points on this model. A test drive over a smooth roads won't tell the true story. If it's on 19" wheels it will look good but they will harsh to live with on a day to day basis. The steering is a bit Honda'ish IMO.

Get the wheels checked before you buy. We had 326Ms and one cracked. No warranty or goodwill. It left a very very bad taste given the cost of the replacement wheel and little confidence that we won't get more cracks.


Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Monday 21st April 2014
quotequote all
Dryce said:
It's not that fast. It's heavy.

Personally my vote goes with the 6 cylinder engine.
The 23i is a 6 cylinder engine.

garreth64

663 posts

220 months

Monday 21st April 2014
quotequote all
My wife has had a 2.0 MSport for the last two years and she loves it. It has the standard 18's as per the pic above.

The 2.3 six does sound nicer (our neighbour has one), but the 2.0 sounds ok, has similar performance and better economy and road tax as already said. The 184bhp engine has good low down torque and is plenty fast enough for her requirements. It never goes anywhere near the red line!

I'm also a TVR driver as well smile

Dryce

310 posts

131 months

Monday 21st April 2014
quotequote all
Fox- said:
The 23i is a 6 cylinder engine.
And the newer 2.0 isn't .... which is why my vote goes with it.

It's a subjective choice. But the 6 pot petrol is about to become extinct so my view would be to experience one before everything becomes 4-pot turbo or diesel.

daemon

35,719 posts

196 months

Monday 21st April 2014
quotequote all
Wifie has a 2012 2.0i Turbo. Loves it. Great car.

As per above, they've gone out of their way to give the engine a characterful note.

Jon1967x

7,175 posts

123 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
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If you're going for the earlier e89 then I'd go for the 35i - we've had one go rover 2 years and it's great. Now it's shod in regular Pirelli tyres and not RFT it's even better. The auto is also the dct which works very well in auto mode but gives you a full manual mode as well. You'd enjoy driving it as well as your wife smile

The later cars are all 4 cylinder with the exception of the 35i iirc. Only you can do the maths on where to draw the line. The car is heavy.

I'm happy with our choice of 35i in msport trim, dct gear box and the potential to remap cheaply to 360+ bhp but completely docile if you want it to be. It's the wife's daily driver and she's not quick yet I still enjoy taking it out for a quick blast and leave the Aston Martin in the garage

James P

2,950 posts

236 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
quotequote all
OP - if you're looking at an E89, I suggest you make sure it has the comprehensive BMW warranty extension if the 3 year factory warranty has expired.

Some areas to look out for:-

Wheels - 19" type 296. I have had 4 replacements in 2 years ownership due to cracking. BMW have paid for all although did require a contribution towards one of them.

Dampers - adaptive. Second damper has just failed and is being replaced for the car to be MOT'd today - both covered by warranty.

Roof mechanism - sensors failed and replaced under warranty (taking almost a week to obtain/ fit parts and check thoroughly).

SatNav is £280 inc vat to update so make sure you buy with the latest maps.

My conclusion - nice car but not one that I would ever want responsibility for repair/ maintenance costs. Mine is a company car and it is very unlikely that I will replace it with another BMW. I'm not surprised that they are stopping making the 35iS - the warranty costs on mine alone could have been a factor in that!

Jon1967x

7,175 posts

123 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
quotequote all
James P said:
OP - if you're looking at an E89, I suggest you make sure it has the comprehensive BMW warranty extension if the 3 year factory warranty has expired.

Some areas to look out for:-

Wheels - 19" type 296. I have had 4 replacements in 2 years ownership due to cracking. BMW have paid for all although did require a contribution towards one of them.

Dampers - adaptive. Second damper has just failed and is being replaced for the car to be MOT'd today - both covered by warranty.

Roof mechanism - sensors failed and replaced under warranty (taking almost a week to obtain/ fit parts and check thoroughly).

SatNav is £280 inc vat to update so make sure you buy with the latest maps.

My conclusion - nice car but not one that I would ever want responsibility for repair/ maintenance costs. Mine is a company car and it is very unlikely that I will replace it with another BMW. I'm not surprised that they are stopping making the 35iS - the warranty costs on mine alone could have been a factor in that!
I disagree with the warranty extension, I think its purely down you your view of risk.

Cracking alloys is a feature of certain designs. On the Z4 its the 296 ones.
Only a few cars have the dynamic adaptive suspension thing.
If you buy a 35i then you'll have an N54 engine. That can have issues with the turbos and can cost £1k to fix. If you're worried get the base transmission warranty which I think is only a few hundred £
Roof mechanism, I've not heard of any failures, its not common from what I've read and the time to get parts doesn't equate to cost. That said, anything complicated and fiddly if it does go wrong can start getting expensive.
The SatNav map is not a warranty item and can be done for about £30. I've done it myself buying the code for my car online and while it takes a bit of time its worth the saving.

Ours has done 45k and nothing has gone wrong. These cars aren't fragile or high maintenance in general IMHO. There will always be stories of people who saved themselves a fortune by extending the warranty, and others that have taken it and never claimed.

James P

2,950 posts

236 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
quotequote all
Jon1967x said:
James P said:
OP - if you're looking at an E89, I suggest you make sure it has the comprehensive BMW warranty extension if the 3 year factory warranty has expired.

Some areas to look out for:-

Wheels - 19" type 296. I have had 4 replacements in 2 years ownership due to cracking. BMW have paid for all although did require a contribution towards one of them.

Dampers - adaptive. Second damper has just failed and is being replaced for the car to be MOT'd today - both covered by warranty.

Roof mechanism - sensors failed and replaced under warranty (taking almost a week to obtain/ fit parts and check thoroughly).

SatNav is £280 inc vat to update so make sure you buy with the latest maps.

My conclusion - nice car but not one that I would ever want responsibility for repair/ maintenance costs. Mine is a company car and it is very unlikely that I will replace it with another BMW. I'm not surprised that they are stopping making the 35iS - the warranty costs on mine alone could have been a factor in that!
I disagree with the warranty extension, I think its purely down you your view of risk.

Cracking alloys is a feature of certain designs. On the Z4 its the 296 ones.
Only a few cars have the dynamic adaptive suspension thing.
If you buy a 35i then you'll have an N54 engine. That can have issues with the turbos and can cost £1k to fix. If you're worried get the base transmission warranty which I think is only a few hundred £
Roof mechanism, I've not heard of any failures, its not common from what I've read and the time to get parts doesn't equate to cost. That said, anything complicated and fiddly if it does go wrong can start getting expensive.

The SatNav map is not a warranty item and can be done for about £30. I've done it myself buying the code for my car online and while it takes a bit of time its worth the saving.

Ours has done 45k and nothing has gone wrong. These cars aren't fragile or high maintenance in general IMHO. There will always be stories of people who saved themselves a fortune by extending the warranty, and others that have taken it and never claimed.
I viewed the risk/premium balance in light of numerous warranty visits over 2 years ownership. The premium is pretty reasonable so it would not take much to pay the premium just in labour charges and the premium could easily be exceeded by a single uninsured fault - you have mentioned turbo's and that has not affected mine (yet at least - touch wood) . My experience of the car is that something fails regularly so the premium is worth paying. I did think that there was not a large difference between base and comprehensive cover so opted for the highest level.

Wheels, suspension and roof may each only affect a few cars but mine has had them all. I forgot to mention before that bulbs have blown front and rear - also all being replaced under warranty.

Regarding the 296 wheels, I was assured before purchase that the fault had been sorted by the factory. Maybe it has but if so someone has been fitting old stock onto mine.

Re SatNav the dealer offered just the code on its own for £60 so I would expect them to make sure that any stock they sell has the latest maps as the cost to them should be small. I have a TomTom that we use in our other cars so latest maps are not essential anyway.

It sounds like you have had the experience and reliability I was hoping for when buying into BMW but have not had. Even if mine had behaved perfectly, I would probably have extended the warranty anyway. As you said - complicated and fiddly = expensive and it certainly is a complicated car.

Jon1967x

7,175 posts

123 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
quotequote all
James P said:
I viewed the risk/premium balance in light of numerous warranty visits over 2 years ownership. The premium is pretty reasonable so it would not take much to pay the premium just in labour charges and the premium could easily be exceeded by a single uninsured fault - you have mentioned turbo's and that has not affected mine (yet at least - touch wood) . My experience of the car is that something fails regularly so the premium is worth paying. I did think that there was not a large difference between base and comprehensive cover so opted for the highest level.

Wheels, suspension and roof may each only affect a few cars but mine has had them all. I forgot to mention before that bulbs have blown front and rear - also all being replaced under warranty.

Regarding the 296 wheels, I was assured before purchase that the fault had been sorted by the factory. Maybe it has but if so someone has been fitting old stock onto mine.

Re SatNav the dealer offered just the code on its own for £60 so I would expect them to make sure that any stock they sell has the latest maps as the cost to them should be small. I have a TomTom that we use in our other cars so latest maps are not essential anyway.

It sounds like you have had the experience and reliability I was hoping for when buying into BMW but have not had. Even if mine had behaved perfectly, I would probably have extended the warranty anyway. As you said - complicated and fiddly = expensive and it certainly is a complicated car.
I think driveline is 250 with a 250 excess - good to protect against a big failure although if I had to claim it would have in total cost me 500.

The comprehensive is 536 with a 100 excess - a lot of the extra things covered are not going to be much the 250 so there's not much point having a 250 excess as you'd be claiming small amounts of money.

I then work on the principle that an independent can do something for about 2/3 the cost of a main dealer. Having found one I trust, I'd happily use them as main dealers have rarely given me confidence with their diagnostic skills.

Each to their own. I think if you can stomach a big bill if it occurred then no warranty is better value on average, after all its a form of insurance so they've averaged out the likely costs, spread them amongst the buyers, at BMW prices and added a margin.

And dealers won't upgrade the maps on second hand cars unless you negotiate it.

James P

2,950 posts

236 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
quotequote all
Jon1967x said:
I think driveline is 250 with a 250 excess - good to protect against a big failure although if I had to claim it would have in total cost me 500.

The comprehensive is 536 with a 100 excess - a lot of the extra things covered are not going to be much the 250 so there's not much point having a 250 excess as you'd be claiming small amounts of money.

I then work on the principle that an independent can do something for about 2/3 the cost of a main dealer. Having found one I trust, I'd happily use them as main dealers have rarely given me confidence with their diagnostic skills.

Each to their own. I think if you can stomach a big bill if it occurred then no warranty is better value on average, after all its a form of insurance so they've averaged out the likely costs, spread them amongst the buyers, at BMW prices and added a margin.

And dealers won't upgrade the maps on second hand cars unless you negotiate it.
I have paid £371 [£100 excess - which will be paid by my firm as they actually own the car - and no emergency cover as I already have that elsewhere].

I'm not terribly impressed by the dealers apart from being very conveniently placed but to date the service pack and warranty have covered all the costs - I do not think I would be willing to actually pay them though and would go elsewhere.

Our experiences seem to cover each extreme of warranties being necessary or a waste. I have tended towards taking the warranty as work will happily cover the warranty cost but might take a closer view at what I choose to drive if they were hit by a large bill. I have had a pretty free hand to choose so far but that might change if large bills started coming in.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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James P said:
Jon1967x said:
I think driveline is 250 with a 250 excess - good to protect against a big failure although if I had to claim it would have in total cost me 500.

The comprehensive is 536 with a 100 excess - a lot of the extra things covered are not going to be much the 250 so there's not much point having a 250 excess as you'd be claiming small amounts of money.

I then work on the principle that an independent can do something for about 2/3 the cost of a main dealer. Having found one I trust, I'd happily use them as main dealers have rarely given me confidence with their diagnostic skills.

Each to their own. I think if you can stomach a big bill if it occurred then no warranty is better value on average, after all its a form of insurance so they've averaged out the likely costs, spread them amongst the buyers, at BMW prices and added a margin.

And dealers won't upgrade the maps on second hand cars unless you negotiate it.
I have paid £371 [£100 excess - which will be paid by my firm as they actually own the car - and no emergency cover as I already have that elsewhere].

I'm not terribly impressed by the dealers apart from being very conveniently placed but to date the service pack and warranty have covered all the costs - I do not think I would be willing to actually pay them though and would go elsewhere.

Our experiences seem to cover each extreme of warranties being necessary or a waste. I have tended towards taking the warranty as work will happily cover the warranty cost but might take a closer view at what I choose to drive if they were hit by a large bill. I have had a pretty free hand to choose so far but that might change if large bills started coming in.
Clearly sounds like you have not had a good car, and from what I read you aren't alone. My experience with our earlier model 08 plate has been exactly the opposite. 6 years old and has had nothing but oil and brake fluid changes. Not a light bulb, not anything.

Having said that, our car has only done 23K in that 6 years, I guess your car works considerably harder and longer than ours!