M-Sport has devalued the M brand...
Discussion
Fox- said:
Other than the M1 the first M badged road car was a regular 535i with a Sport pack, basically - same engine as the conventional 535i. But this always seems to escape the memory of the 'wwaaaaa, M is ruined' brigade.
I don't believe a conventional 535i ever existed in the E12, but BMW Motorsport were doing other engine swaps into the E12 before they created the M535i, using various M30s that would otherwise be destined for E24s & E23sThe 530MLE also predates the M535i, albeit in S. Africa only. This was a homologation special, right down to its drilled pedals and boot struts
Edited by Leins on Wednesday 23 April 01:36
gizlaroc said:
The only thing that has changed is the fact they are more popular and so, so, so much cheaper than they were 30 years ago, so you see far more of them about.
That is the only brand dilution imho.
How does selling more cars and becoming a popular car manufacturer make the BMW brand 'diluted' That is the only brand dilution imho.
. BMW are a business, selling loads of cars is their number one aim. I flipping hate that word, 'dilution'.People complain about M sport now, but I don't see people moaning about older M sport/M tech cars e.g. M535i.
Stick Legs said:
The point I was making was firstly that the M logo has become just a trim level.
Well I drove am E34 535i sport which had several M badges in it (eg wheel emblems) and on the steering wheel and a piece of the interior.... So I guess it got diluted a long time ago as that was a 1990 car! So is the point your making about it becoming a trim levels something you're saying happened in the late 80s or something new? If something new, I'm going to suggest you're a little wrong. As several others have pointed out this has been going on for ages. Bmw are just selling lots more of them now.
Amirhussain said:
How does selling more cars and becoming a popular car manufacturer make the BMW brand 'diluted' . BMW are a business, selling loads of cars is their number one aim. I flipping hate that word, 'dilution'.
People complain about M sport now, but I don't see people moaning about older M sport/M tech cars e.g. M535i.
In the perception of those that see them out on the roads. . BMW are a business, selling loads of cars is their number one aim. I flipping hate that word, 'dilution'.People complain about M sport now, but I don't see people moaning about older M sport/M tech cars e.g. M535i.
When I was growing up in the 80's seeing a BMW or a Merc was a fairly rare thing, but then I remember my old mans 535i was about the same price as a 2 bed terrace house in the right side of town, and in 1993 he paid £38,000 for his E320 and collected it the same day we got the keys to our first house, which was only £37k.
I remember thinking that was crazy at the time, especially as we had gone into the area we really wanted and we could have got a nicer house a mile away for £22k.
My comments were in response to "Has M-Sport has devalued the M brand?"
I don't think anything has changed there, the whole BMW brand is 'devalued' because they are so damned cheap these days, in real terms. But I don't think devalued is the right word, I think diluted is better because there are, imho, better value than ever, but the fact they are everywhere does mean as a brand they have been diluted rather than devalued, they no longer stand out when you see one as every other car is one.
You see thousands and thousands of M Sports, but not many M cars. So how about looking at it that in fact the surge of M Sport purchases has actually made your M car a bit more exclusive?
Or how about not giving a 5hit, wanting your ego massaged and just go drive the car you bought and enjoy it for what it is?
Your sincerely,
Future M235iMMM driver.
Or how about not giving a 5hit, wanting your ego massaged and just go drive the car you bought and enjoy it for what it is?
Your sincerely,
Future M235iMMM driver.
Leon19841 said:
You see thousands and thousands of M Sports, but not many M cars. So how about looking at it that in fact the surge of M Sport purchases has actually made your M car a bit more exclusive?
Or how about not giving a 5hit, wanting your ego massaged and just go drive the car you bought and enjoy it for what it is?
Your sincerely,
Future M235iMMM driver.
Well done, one of the best M-Sports you can buy, worthy of the M-Sport badge.Or how about not giving a 5hit, wanting your ego massaged and just go drive the car you bought and enjoy it for what it is?
Your sincerely,
Future M235iMMM driver.
Problem is, you will catch the bug and want a proper M car before you know it.* :P
My favourite BMW drivers car? E30 325i SE.
Taught me more about driving than any M Car I have owned, I learnt more in a month with that than I did in a year with the CSL.
- That was me taking the piss out of the M forum and the M135i thread by the way.
Fox- said:
gizlaroc said:
S-Line Vs S Cars
M-Sport Vs M Cars
Except not really, as 'S' isn't anything special - it is of course RS thats the M car equivilent.M-Sport Vs M Cars
A 2009 Audi S4 for example is really just a 335i M Sport rival with a posher name.
S = M performance (M135 etc..)
RS = M
Chipmunk1 said:
what the actual f
k?man a man WHAT?
The major issue with M sports is the apparent afterthought of the M badge on the front wings. Noticed it when browsing at the dealership a few weeks back. Looks utterly crap.
I have no issue with Sport models, as mentioned BMW have had them for ages with M technic parts. I'm assuming the switch to 'M sport' was a marketing decision.
I have however noticed of late that when people tell you the kind of BMW they have it will be described as a '3 Series M Sport'. Often the 320d bit is dropped or omitted entirely.
I have no issue with Sport models, as mentioned BMW have had them for ages with M technic parts. I'm assuming the switch to 'M sport' was a marketing decision.
I have however noticed of late that when people tell you the kind of BMW they have it will be described as a '3 Series M Sport'. Often the 320d bit is dropped or omitted entirely.
gizlaroc said:
I don't think anything has changed there, the whole BMW brand is 'devalued' because they are so damned cheap these days, in real terms. But I don't think devalued is the right word, I think diluted is better because there are, imho, better value than ever, but the fact they are everywhere does mean as a brand they have been diluted rather than devalued, they no longer stand out when you see one as every other car is one.
I really struggle to see how a brand can span a large section of the market well. If you're selling large numbers of 1 series and 3 series cars at 20k you're pulling in the crowd that historically used to find BMW aspirational. It absolutely doesn't feel special driving a BMW now, and anyone that thinks it does can't have driven one 10 years or more ago. I had a 323 Touring as my first company car and I was the talk of the street. That kind of car wouldn't even register nowadays. Other than the die hard M car owners, they are moving on too. Why spend 60k on a new M3/4 when you could have a new Cayman or F-type Jag or a 2 year old Audi R8, Aston Martin Vantage or Porsche 911?
I'm really looking forward to the 318d GT M-Sport GTS-Sport, with alcantara cup-holders and carbon "M"-badges for lighter extra weight. Other notable features include additional 4-pot diesel engine sounds recreated through the speakers in the cabin, and a welcome e-mail on the iDrive from the tea-boy in Garching saying how he was 1% responsible for those new cup-holders
Deletion of front fog-lights was going to be an option, but was overruled by the marketing intern while on secondment to the engineering department. Thank God for that!
I've also heard a rumour that Audi are bringing out an RS-line soon...
Deletion of front fog-lights was going to be an option, but was overruled by the marketing intern while on secondment to the engineering department. Thank God for that!
I've also heard a rumour that Audi are bringing out an RS-line soon...
Edited by Leins on Wednesday 23 April 11:12
Size and weight means there aren't any M cars that appeal to me at the moment. M2 maybe. I need to run a do it all car for a few years and I probably plan to go to a 2 car set up (prius/elise or something along those lines)
gizlaroc said:
Well done, one of the best M-Sports you can buy, worthy of the M-Sport badge.
Problem is, you will catch the bug and want a proper M car before you know it.* :P
My favourite BMW drivers car? E30 325i SE.
Taught me more about driving than any M Car I have owned, I learnt more in a month with that than I did in a year with the CSL.
Problem is, you will catch the bug and want a proper M car before you know it.* :P
My favourite BMW drivers car? E30 325i SE.
Taught me more about driving than any M Car I have owned, I learnt more in a month with that than I did in a year with the CSL.
- That was me taking the piss out of the M forum and the M135i thread by the way.
Wills2 said:
Jon1967x said:
Other than the die hard M car owners, they are moving on too. Why spend 60k on a new M3/4 when you could have a new Cayman or F-type Jag or a 2 year old Audi R8, Aston Martin Vantage or Porsche 911?
Because you want a car that seats 4/5 + luggage? To put it into perspective, the new M4 will comfortably be quicker than an R8 V8 with back seats, a decent boot and it'll be cheaper. It won't be far off 911 C2S performance despite being much cheaper.
Wills2 said:
Jon1967x said:
Other than the die hard M car owners, they are moving on too. Why spend 60k on a new M3/4 when you could have a new Cayman or F-type Jag or a 2 year old Audi R8, Aston Martin Vantage or Porsche 911?
Because you want a car that seats 4/5 + luggage? Jon1967x said:
I guess that explains why they stopped making M5 estates..
People just don't buy M car estates, but they do buy 4 seat M coupes. Audi do well with the RS avant but I think the 4WD suits the character of a performance estate, if BMW did a Xdrive M3 touring that might work.
Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 23 April 13:43
Wills2 said:
Jon1967x said:
I guess that explains why they stopped making M5 estates..
People just don't buy M car estates, but they do buy 4 seat M coupes. HTH.
I find it highly amusing that BMW introduce so many permutations of cars at the lower end of their range (3 series saloon, touring, GT, 4 Gran coupe etc) and yet have stopped doing that on the M cars. I agree they don't sell, but that's because M cars don't sell.
Between 2007 and 2012 3 series coupes production fell from 90k to 30k globally. Yep.. people really do want BMW 3 series coupes like they used to.
HTH
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