M-Sport has devalued the M brand...
Discussion
The M brand is damaged by:
- switching to turbo charged engines
- magazines saying real world performance of the 535d is preferable to the m5 (previous models)
- the choice of other cars like caymans and now merc are making some decent AMG cars
- the general volumes of BMWs sold which has dragged their market down. It's not as special to own any bmw now compared to how it was 10 years ago
I don't think the m sport body kit is the biggest issue, I just think the market is changing in the same way the Subaru impreza or an evo was the car to own 15 years ago and now there's no market.
- switching to turbo charged engines
- magazines saying real world performance of the 535d is preferable to the m5 (previous models)
- the choice of other cars like caymans and now merc are making some decent AMG cars
- the general volumes of BMWs sold which has dragged their market down. It's not as special to own any bmw now compared to how it was 10 years ago
I don't think the m sport body kit is the biggest issue, I just think the market is changing in the same way the Subaru impreza or an evo was the car to own 15 years ago and now there's no market.
Bumper styles, M badges etc aside I have always looked at a cars brake disc size to indicate level of performance/power/sporting intention. This meant I could spot the difference between an old 116i and a 130i, or a 318d from a 335i from a distance. Rear brakes in particular would be the sign of lower budget where braking perfromance was not needed.
For the first time recently though I was deceived. Saw a new 1 series 114d with blue M sport calipers and discs filling a good proportion of the 18" wheels, much like my 330i in size. Thought it would be a M135i. Owner must have ticked that brake option. Walked away quite sad that my system was ruined.
For the first time recently though I was deceived. Saw a new 1 series 114d with blue M sport calipers and discs filling a good proportion of the 18" wheels, much like my 330i in size. Thought it would be a M135i. Owner must have ticked that brake option. Walked away quite sad that my system was ruined.
Jedilai said:
Bumper styles, M badges etc aside I have always looked at a cars brake disc size to indicate level of performance/power/sporting intention. This meant I could spot the difference between an old 116i and a 130i, or a 318d from a 335i from a distance. Rear brakes in particular would be the sign of lower budget where braking perfromance was not needed.
For the first time recently though I was deceived. Saw a new 1 series 114d with blue M sport calipers and discs filling a good proportion of the 18" wheels, much like my 330i in size. Thought it would be a M135i. Owner must have ticked that brake option. Walked away quite sad that my system was ruined.
I used to use exhaust tips in the same way but that rule of thumb went a while back when the 520d started coming with twin exhausts. For the first time recently though I was deceived. Saw a new 1 series 114d with blue M sport calipers and discs filling a good proportion of the 18" wheels, much like my 330i in size. Thought it would be a M135i. Owner must have ticked that brake option. Walked away quite sad that my system was ruined.
Interesting posts. I was in a showroom last Thursday and I must admit I didn't like the amount of external M badges which have appeared on the latest generation. I saw a M135i a 2 series and I think a 428i convertible also had them on the sides!
They are not M cars and therefore these external badges seemed unnecessary, inaccurate, and thus a bit daft.
However, it doesn't ruin the M brand because ultimately the M brand is about engineering, performance, and the engaging driving experience which, in my opinion, is superior to even the M performance cars.
They are not M cars and therefore these external badges seemed unnecessary, inaccurate, and thus a bit daft.
However, it doesn't ruin the M brand because ultimately the M brand is about engineering, performance, and the engaging driving experience which, in my opinion, is superior to even the M performance cars.
I think M-Sport has increased the standard BMW brand more than it has devalued the M brand. I think the insistance of auto boxes isn't helping the genuine drivers appeal that the M brand stands for but then again, if the market didn't dictate it they wouldn't do it. The E46 CSL in flappy padddle only, no thanks. Sticking a big thirsty V8 in the M3 was the start of the slide of the brand for me although others disagree. It seems to be more about power figures these days.
toon10 said:
Sticking a big thirsty V8 in the M3 was the start of the slide of the brand for me
The full fat M cars are made for a slightly different customer nowadays I think its more about comfort with plenty of power thrown in, I don't think M-Sport devalues the brand though really and if anything cars like the M135i/M235i are actually proving in my opinion to be a better all rounder than the full fat versions certainly as a day to day prospect.
toon10 said:
I think M-Sport has increased the standard BMW brand more than it has devalued the M brand. I think the insistance of auto boxes isn't helping the genuine drivers appeal that the M brand stands for but then again, if the market didn't dictate it they wouldn't do it. The E46 CSL in flappy padddle only, no thanks. Sticking a big thirsty V8 in the M3 was the start of the slide of the brand for me although others disagree. It seems to be more about power figures these days.
Each to their own and all that, but what exactly did you find lacking in the CSL you drove because of the semi-manual box?Jon1967x said:
The M brand is damaged by:
- switching to turbo charged engines
- magazines saying real world performance of the 535d is preferable to the m5 (previous models)
- the choice of other cars like caymans and now merc are making some decent AMG cars
- the general volumes of BMWs sold which has dragged their market down. It's not as special to own any bmw now compared to how it was 10 years ago
I don't think the m sport body kit is the biggest issue, I just think the market is changing in the same way the Subaru impreza or an evo was the car to own 15 years ago and now there's no market.
+1 100% agree with all of that.- switching to turbo charged engines
- magazines saying real world performance of the 535d is preferable to the m5 (previous models)
- the choice of other cars like caymans and now merc are making some decent AMG cars
- the general volumes of BMWs sold which has dragged their market down. It's not as special to own any bmw now compared to how it was 10 years ago
I don't think the m sport body kit is the biggest issue, I just think the market is changing in the same way the Subaru impreza or an evo was the car to own 15 years ago and now there's no market.
Everyone seems to be banging on about this M badges on non M car's lately? I'm not very old compared to some of you old timers on here but back in the E36 days my 318is M pack or Mtech or whatever you wanna call it had M badges all over it as standard,The steering wheel was exactly the same as an e36 m3 with tri color stitching and everything only difference I noticed was that the M badges round the car had M/// and m3's had well M3/// lol..Of course the body kit was exactly the same bar a few little touches.I had genuine m3 alloys and vadars in mine and you'd be hard pressed to tell any difference(yes it had rear discs :P)
So I can't figure out why everyone seem's to think this sticking M badges or having M Pack's on NON M models is something new or the brand has suddenly become diluted by this new trend when it's been commonplace for 20 odd years?
Oh and before someone ask's yes I proudly had 318IS on the back of mine!
I can't see the problem apart from the X5M/X6M. On the whole though M badged cars are M engineered cars and M Sport cars are trim level only cars just like Audi S cars are S engineered and S Line cars are trim only.
What I don't understand is people thinking the M sport version is the better, faster car.
What I don't understand is people thinking the M sport version is the better, faster car.
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