BMW 535i Vs 535d
Discussion
Ok have a 2005 BMW 535d bought new now looking to change. Choice is 535i or 535d. Thinking might like to get back into the smooth Petrol 6 little disappointed with the 306bhp and more the 295 lb ft when others or even same engine in BMW range offers more 332lb ft or so. Option on that is the Hartge Conversion with Birds very helpful people and that gives 362bhp and 354 Lb Ft. Or Get the Diesel and stay as standard at 308Bhp and 464 Lb Ft or go mad and do Hartge on that to 360BHP and 528 Lb Ft!! Just think had the Diesel so now a Petrol would be better with higher revs and the near silent running. Most of my driving in town so economy will suffer for sure. Had clear vision to get the 535i but now for some reason confused and just cancelled order to think it over. I think if I get 535i will do conversion as 295 lb ft is just not good enough esp as my current 535d has 413 lb ft.
Any help would be good or more important if someone has been in either of these and used daily or even had the conversion?
Thanks
Any help would be good or more important if someone has been in either of these and used daily or even had the conversion?
Thanks
Not wishing to sound daft but are you aware of the relationship between torque and rpm?
The 535i engine (we're talking the turbocharged one, right?) develops it's peak torque very low down its rev range.
If you use the gearbox properly and shift gears at the same ROAD SPEED as you would in the diesel, the petrol will never really seem any less powerful than the diesel because it will always be revving higher (which will make up a lot for its lesser torque figure).
Torque alone isn't what gives you acceleration or a high top speed, power is. I think the gear ratios on the petrol may be SLIGHTLY taller in terms of max speed in each gear meaning it may feel slightly slower at certain points but it really shouldn't be much.
My point is effectively 150lb ft of torque at 10k rpm will feel exactly the same as 600lb ft at 2500rpm....
Petrol is smoother, quieter, makes a much nicer noise and just feels more luxurious, but is less efficient. Take your pick. The diesel isn't a bad engine by any means, but those diesels have never put a smile on my face as big as a petrol 6.
The 535i engine (we're talking the turbocharged one, right?) develops it's peak torque very low down its rev range.
If you use the gearbox properly and shift gears at the same ROAD SPEED as you would in the diesel, the petrol will never really seem any less powerful than the diesel because it will always be revving higher (which will make up a lot for its lesser torque figure).
Torque alone isn't what gives you acceleration or a high top speed, power is. I think the gear ratios on the petrol may be SLIGHTLY taller in terms of max speed in each gear meaning it may feel slightly slower at certain points but it really shouldn't be much.
My point is effectively 150lb ft of torque at 10k rpm will feel exactly the same as 600lb ft at 2500rpm....
Petrol is smoother, quieter, makes a much nicer noise and just feels more luxurious, but is less efficient. Take your pick. The diesel isn't a bad engine by any means, but those diesels have never put a smile on my face as big as a petrol 6.
rickinm said:
Ok have a 2005 BMW 535d bought new now looking to change. Choice is 535i or 535d. Thinking might like to get back into the smooth Petrol 6 little disappointed with the 306bhp and more the 295 lb ft when others or even same engine in BMW range offers more 332lb ft or so. Option on that is the Hartge Conversion with Birds very helpful people and that gives 362bhp and 354 Lb Ft. Or Get the Diesel and stay as standard at 308Bhp and 464 Lb Ft or go mad and do Hartge on that to 360BHP and 528 Lb Ft!! Just think had the Diesel so now a Petrol would be better with higher revs and the near silent running. Most of my driving in town so economy will suffer for sure. Had clear vision to get the 535i but now for some reason confused and just cancelled order to think it over. I think if I get 535i will do conversion as 295 lb ft is just not good enough esp as my current 535d has 413 lb ft.
Any help would be good or more important if someone has been in either of these and used daily or even had the conversion?
Thanks
When you say disappointed with the petrol, is that just on paper or from a test drive ? BMW's published specs for the various N55s are not like for like. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N55 The 535i torque figure is quoted between 1200 and 5000 rpm, the peak is usefully higher. Have a google image search to see what the N55 power and torque curves look like; great low down and a little flat above 5000. You're likely to see what a good remap will give you too; its likely to give you nearer 404lb ft than 354.Any help would be good or more important if someone has been in either of these and used daily or even had the conversion?
Thanks
Thank you for the reply I did test drive and it was not bad but just seemed a little weak and when one sees hot hatches that have 280 lb ft seems a bit tame. I have looked at remaps but I tend to be wary and thus went for either Hartge or ACS. Hartge seems the right one as its as flat as the factory curve please see http://www.hartge.de/UploadPDF/F10%20Limousine/E%2...
There may well be more available but I want one that is reliable and wont be wiped when it goes for service or any software updates etc. Of course with the 535d there are no such issues and every single magazine and article says its an amazing engine but I am just thinking maybe back to a petrol 6 as it will be so smooth and also so much better with the start stop system.
There may well be more available but I want one that is reliable and wont be wiped when it goes for service or any software updates etc. Of course with the 535d there are no such issues and every single magazine and article says its an amazing engine but I am just thinking maybe back to a petrol 6 as it will be so smooth and also so much better with the start stop system.
If you buy the petrol you will be perceived as a much more interesting person and you won't have a smelly diesel smell about you, therefore you will attract woman.
The downside to buying a petrol car is that you will always have to justify your purchase to diesel car owners who will think you are mad.
My advice, whichever car you buy, is to buy second hand if, as you say you do, want to mess around with the engine. Buying new and bolting on bits and messing with the ECU and invalidating a warranty is lunacy.
The downside to buying a petrol car is that you will always have to justify your purchase to diesel car owners who will think you are mad.
My advice, whichever car you buy, is to buy second hand if, as you say you do, want to mess around with the engine. Buying new and bolting on bits and messing with the ECU and invalidating a warranty is lunacy.
My Wife would not be too happy about me attracting all the women and besides I have a Maserati and that does a good enough job! But I do see what you mean and am not looking to put bits and pieces but just an ECU module and that too by Hartge or Schnitzer but am now leaning to the Diesel I think.
I've run an E92 335i since late 2010 and its had an Evolve map for the last 3 of those years. I fancy a change and stumbled across this video a last week when considering an E60 550i; the reason I'm posting here is to indicate difference in performance before and after an *35i engine is mapped.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayNuowD7xjA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayNuowD7xjA
Thank you all for the help but more confused now. I would love the 550i but its way too much and as much is town driving that's an issue - what I am thinking is the 535d and the Hartge Conversion to 360BHP and 525Lb Ft which is like the Alpina D5. I drove the new Alpina D3 which has same engine and that was brutal but D5 would be best but too expensive and am getting great deal on the 535i or 535d.
rickinm said:
Thank you all for the help but more confused now. I would love the 550i but its way too much and as much is town driving that's an issue - what I am thinking is the 535d and the Hartge Conversion to 360BHP and 525Lb Ft which is like the Alpina D5. I drove the new Alpina D3 which has same engine and that was brutal but D5 would be best but too expensive and am getting great deal on the 535i or 535d.
A remapped 535i won't be any slower than a 535d...rickinm said:
A remapped 535i won't be any slower than a 535d...
....but the torque in the diesel....
You are aware of the relationship between torque and rpm, aren't you? the petrol revs to 6500rpm, the diesel revs to 4750rpm IIRC so if each gear goes to the same road speed (e.g. 2nd goes to 60mph, 3rd goes to 100mph and so on) then the diesel HAS to produce 37% more torque to be as powerful.....but the torque in the diesel....
Just drive them both and see what puts the bigger smile on your face and get that one. Nothing worse than enjoying cars and driving something you find boring.
rickinm said:
A remapped 535i won't be any slower than a 535d...
Probably true to be honest but the torque in the diesel and the relative efficiency makes me think maybe better stay with diesel besides keep reading what a mega engine it is.
The 535i is a mega engine, too. If you are in a position where they are available, get one. The best 6 pot in the range IMHO. Probably true to be honest but the torque in the diesel and the relative efficiency makes me think maybe better stay with diesel besides keep reading what a mega engine it is.
Though are you not concerned about the warranty implications of tuning?
Def worried about warranty and they is part of the reason as thinking diesel as out of box is more suited to 5000k per annum town driving.
I am aware of the relationship of torque and revs but torque is now as they say and revs are more for BHP. The problem I have with the 535i is that whichever way one cuts it they have given a 1900kg saloon the same power etc as all the top hot hatches and torque even worse whereas clearly in the range the same engine does 330bhp and 332 lb ft so why not in the 5?? I find that so strange?? Even the official M Performance upgrade is not available for the 5.
I am aware of the relationship of torque and revs but torque is now as they say and revs are more for BHP. The problem I have with the 535i is that whichever way one cuts it they have given a 1900kg saloon the same power etc as all the top hot hatches and torque even worse whereas clearly in the range the same engine does 330bhp and 332 lb ft so why not in the 5?? I find that so strange?? Even the official M Performance upgrade is not available for the 5.
rickinm said:
Def worried about warranty and they is part of the reason as thinking diesel as out of box is more suited to 5000k per annum town driving.
I am aware of the relationship of torque and revs but torque is now as they say and revs are more for BHP. The problem I have with the 535i is that whichever way one cuts it they have given a 1900kg saloon the same power etc as all the top hot hatches and torque even worse whereas clearly in the range the same engine does 330bhp and 332 lb ft so why not in the 5?? I find that so strange?? Even the official M Performance upgrade is not available for the 5.
Do you realise how many contradictions there are in that post? I am aware of the relationship of torque and revs but torque is now as they say and revs are more for BHP. The problem I have with the 535i is that whichever way one cuts it they have given a 1900kg saloon the same power etc as all the top hot hatches and torque even worse whereas clearly in the range the same engine does 330bhp and 332 lb ft so why not in the 5?? I find that so strange?? Even the official M Performance upgrade is not available for the 5.
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