BMW 535i Vs 535d
Discussion
rickinm said:
Def worried about warranty and they is part of the reason as thinking diesel as out of box is more suited to 5000k per annum town driving.
No it's not, petrol is far better for town driving. My 535d used to take 10 miles or 20 minutes to get to temperature, whichever came first, and befroe it got there it drank like a fish!
I would often see 19mpg going across town in the morning for the first 20 minutes or so, and when I arrived, some 20 minutes later, it would be about 23mpg for the journey.
My 335i used to be up to temperature in about 2 miles or 5 minutes, and when I used to get to the inner ring, which is where the 535d would be at 19mpg most mornings, the 335i was at 23mpg, when I arrived it was often at 27mpg, beating the 535d by 10% and saving nearly 10% in fuel too.
rickinm said:
I am aware of the relationship of torque and revs but torque is now as they say and revs are more for BHP. The problem I have with the 535i is that whichever way one cuts it they have given a 1900kg saloon the same power etc as all the top hot hatches and torque even worse whereas clearly in the range the same engine does 330bhp and 332 lb ft so why not in the 5?? I find that so strange?? Even the official M Performance upgrade is not available for the 5.
Torque is nothing really, it is just a way of calulating the BHP, which is power. To me the way the 535d delivers its power just gets boring after a while, and the 535i is similar, but it does feel more like a petrol, as in you can feel the power constantly climbing, where as teh diesel is one big shove and that is it, if that makes sense?
It feels more of a drivers car.
I have owned a 535d and a 335i and the 35i is in a different league to the 35d imho.
My 35i worked out cheaper to run than my 35d in fuel costs alone.
The guy round the corner has just swapped his facelift E60 535d for a new F10 550i and he has gone from 33/34mpg average to 29mpg average, to say he is thrilled with the move is an understatement.
He said in real terms doing 20k miles a year it is costing him £10 a week more for the 550i in fuel.
Also, he paid £31k for a year old 550i M-Sport, where as a year old 535d with all the toys was going to cost him £35k. And I bet in 4 years when he swaps the 550i will be worth just as much as the 535d.
The straight six petrol just feels special.
To be honest, you are likely to buy both in auto guise. Imo, the F10 has too many gears for such a torquey engine.
Although the 535d has more torque than the 535i the autobox (in an e60 with only 6 gears) kicks down before the full monster torque of the diesel is taken advantage of. Unless the F10 has a 'hold' feature like old autos did, as the e60 does not and i wish it did.
I wouldn't change my E60 530d for a 530i, but I would have been tempted in an e60 535i (if I didn't need the space and doors I would have had an e92 335i)
The 530d does around 23mpg around town, and I can't imagine a petrol engine doing much worse, if at all. Motorway mpg will be a different ball game though
Although the 535d has more torque than the 535i the autobox (in an e60 with only 6 gears) kicks down before the full monster torque of the diesel is taken advantage of. Unless the F10 has a 'hold' feature like old autos did, as the e60 does not and i wish it did.
I wouldn't change my E60 530d for a 530i, but I would have been tempted in an e60 535i (if I didn't need the space and doors I would have had an e92 335i)
The 530d does around 23mpg around town, and I can't imagine a petrol engine doing much worse, if at all. Motorway mpg will be a different ball game though
Fox- said:
How did he manage that?! Even 4 year old 550i SE's are near £30k, so a 1 year old M Sport for that?
They wanted it out the door, mind you, he got a terrible trade in on his 535d. But that is the way to buy them, then sell it again 3 years later for maybe a £6k loss.
It sounds f
king glorious as it goes down the street. I've had an F10 530D for a few weeks now.
My experience is slightly different to that mentioned above. It gets up to temp very quickly and economy even on short journeys (7 miles is the shortest I've done) is hard to get much below 40mpg. I've not done any city driving. On my 20 mile each way commute along the A47 I see 45-50mpg pottering along at 50-60mph with the occasional overtake. So economy wise it's pretty good.
In terms of feel it does feel very industrial when pressing on, almost lazy, and you don't notice the speed until you look at the speedo as there's no real noise or ceremony to putting your foot down - just a rumble, a shove in the back and you're into 3 figures. I'm sure the petrol would put a bigger smile on your face, the diesel feels a little dull I guess, like it doesn't have to try.
On a B-road jaunt it gathers speed almost too fast, I'm not sure I'd use the extra power of the 535d.
My experience is slightly different to that mentioned above. It gets up to temp very quickly and economy even on short journeys (7 miles is the shortest I've done) is hard to get much below 40mpg. I've not done any city driving. On my 20 mile each way commute along the A47 I see 45-50mpg pottering along at 50-60mph with the occasional overtake. So economy wise it's pretty good.
In terms of feel it does feel very industrial when pressing on, almost lazy, and you don't notice the speed until you look at the speedo as there's no real noise or ceremony to putting your foot down - just a rumble, a shove in the back and you're into 3 figures. I'm sure the petrol would put a bigger smile on your face, the diesel feels a little dull I guess, like it doesn't have to try.
On a B-road jaunt it gathers speed almost too fast, I'm not sure I'd use the extra power of the 535d.
Edited by Minstadave on Saturday 3rd May 02:27
gizlaroc said:
It sounds fking glorious as it goes down the street.
I bet it does. What a stunning car that must be. I initially assumed nobody would want the V8's so they'd be a bargain but I've not been able to find one anywhere for sensible money.king glorious as it goes down the street. Infact from the last few months of looking around it seems that if you want to spend £20k tops then the 530d is the best you can get. Every so often a 535i pops up but it's invariably missing something. I suspect the same happens with 530d as well but there are sufficiently more of them for it to be not as noticeable and thus easier to find the specification you want.
On paper the 528i sounds like the ideal compromise really but when you start looking around you find the majority of them are poorly optioned except, bizarrely, for the strangely frequent appearance of 528i's with seemingly almost every available option but in Milano Beige paint...
So, yea. Thanks to our fantastic CO2 obsessed everything must be a diesel company car culture and people who simply dont even consider petrol let alone bother to test drive it, if you want to buy an F10 unless you are lucky enough to have a big enough budget that you can snap up deals like your mates or you are happy to pay the OTT prices some dealers ask for the petrol ones (Rybrook have a 2011 535i they want £27k for!!!!) then as a second hand buyer you are almost certainly going to end up driving a diesel.
Ah well. At least the 530d is a great diesel. But it will never be a petrol and I genuinely don't understand how people could actively seek out the diesel if they have the ability, as with the OP, to buy the petrol one and they don't cover big miles.
I had hoped the introduction of the twin turbo petrol 4 pot 528i might turn the tide but I don't think I've ever seen one on the road and there are very few on the market.
Thank you all for your help rally has made me think what to do. What bugs me most is that BMW feel that on their 5 series the engine should not match the 330bhp it gets on others in the range. I feel I would have to get the Hartge Conversion. Also depreciation I have looked online and hardly any 535i's an they all depreciate like crazy whereas the diesels fare better so come time to change I will have to find a buyer like me who wants a big petrol.
I also read that the new f10 diesels are much better than the old diesels they have improved a lot in terms of economy, heating up time etc etc and the 8 speed auto helps as well so that's but then the same applies for the petrol as well.
Its strange and am really not sure now.
I also read that the new f10 diesels are much better than the old diesels they have improved a lot in terms of economy, heating up time etc etc and the 8 speed auto helps as well so that's but then the same applies for the petrol as well.
Its strange and am really not sure now.
Think the 535i with Hartge is better option. I have specced bith with Azurite Black and Black Nappa Leather and Comfort Access Comfort seats
Lumbar support, driver and front pass. M Sport Plus package 19" M Double-spoke style 351M alloy wheels Loudspeaker system - harman/kardon surround sound M rear spoiler Sun protection glass Media package Navigation system-BMW Professional Multimedia Variable Damper Control (VDC)assist camera Ext. mirrors - folding, auto dimming Instrument panel, leather Air conditioning, automatic with four-zone control Adaptive LED Headlights so if ever I sell later there will be a great F10 for sale lol. Also done the 535d the same so now its only to decide 535i or 535d?
Lumbar support, driver and front pass. M Sport Plus package 19" M Double-spoke style 351M alloy wheels Loudspeaker system - harman/kardon surround sound M rear spoiler Sun protection glass Media package Navigation system-BMW Professional Multimedia Variable Damper Control (VDC)assist camera Ext. mirrors - folding, auto dimming Instrument panel, leather Air conditioning, automatic with four-zone control Adaptive LED Headlights so if ever I sell later there will be a great F10 for sale lol. Also done the 535d the same so now its only to decide 535i or 535d?
Fox- said:
.........except, bizarrely, for the strangely frequent appearance of 528i's with seemingly almost every available option but in Milano Beige paint...
Haha, that is so true. I will admit, once I heard what he paid for his I started looking and they all seem more expensive and they all seem to be SE's as well.
Actually, he also said it was a year old, but he has his plate on, is there any way to tell if it is a year old or maybe older than that?
gizlaroc said:
My 535d used to take 10 miles or 20 minutes to get to temperature, whichever came first, and befroe it got there it drank like a fish!
I would often see 19mpg going across town in the morning for the first 20 minutes or so, and when I arrived, some 20 minutes later, it would be about 23mpg for the journey.
I'd prefer a big petrol than my 535d if I'm honest but wouldn't have one simply because my 535d tows my track car like it isn't there, cruises really well and pulls like a train when I want to overtake and yet still gives me 30-35mpg. No brainer for a family utility care, I'll save the petrol for the track and the bikes.
dern said:
Sounds like your thermostats were buggered, common problem. Mine's up to temp in a few minutes but when the thermostats were stuck open it would take a while and run too cold in the winter. Easy fix and not expensive.
I'd prefer a big petrol than my 535d if I'm honest but wouldn't have one simply because my 535d tows my track car like it isn't there, cruises really well and pulls like a train when I want to overtake and yet still gives me 30-35mpg. No brainer for a family utility care, I'll save the petrol for the track and the bikes.
No the stats were fine, it was a new car. I'd prefer a big petrol than my 535d if I'm honest but wouldn't have one simply because my 535d tows my track car like it isn't there, cruises really well and pulls like a train when I want to overtake and yet still gives me 30-35mpg. No brainer for a family utility care, I'll save the petrol for the track and the bikes.
It got to 90ºc no problem, but that last 10 or so degrees used to take a while, compared with the petrol anyway.
The diesels are good, but for someone asking about the petrol vs diesel and only concern is how they drive, it has to be the petrol.
His worry seems to be the power, I don't think that comes into it once you have lived with both, there is something about the petrol that is just 'nicer'.
gizlaroc said:
The diesels are good, but for someone asking about the petrol vs diesel and only concern is how they drive, it has to be the petrol.
His worry seems to be the power, I don't think that comes into it once you have lived with both, there is something about the petrol that is just 'nicer'.
No my problem is actually the torque when the 535i engine does 332lb ft in other cars in range why they leave the heavt 5 series with 295 lbft??His worry seems to be the power, I don't think that comes into it once you have lived with both, there is something about the petrol that is just 'nicer'.
Think for drive petrol is nicer and I would get Hartge ECU.
rickinm said:
No my problem is actually the torque when the 535i engine does 332lb ft in other cars in range why they leave the heavt 5 series with 295 lbft??
Think for drive petrol is nicer and I would get Hartge ECU.
I would get a Juice Box, far more of them been used. Think for drive petrol is nicer and I would get Hartge ECU.
I wouldn't worry about the torque though, I just can't see the issue there. I went back to an M3 after the 335i and that only has 269lbs ft of torque, but was felt so much quicker than my mapped 335i, which had 380bhp and 360lbs ft.
Torque feels quick for about a week, where as progressive power always feels quick.
gizlaroc said:
Haha, that is so true.
I will admit, once I heard what he paid for his I started looking and they all seem more expensive and they all seem to be SE's as well.
Actually, he also said it was a year old, but he has his plate on, is there any way to tell if it is a year old or maybe older than that?
Type the plate into askmid or even something like euro car parts or Ebay's part finder.I will admit, once I heard what he paid for his I started looking and they all seem more expensive and they all seem to be SE's as well.
Actually, he also said it was a year old, but he has his plate on, is there any way to tell if it is a year old or maybe older than that?
Of course he may not be telling the truth about what he paid.
I don't know about that...was it not Enzo Ferrari who said "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races"? Clearly both need to be present in sufficient amounts in a road car, and it depends on the road, but, in the real world where cars have to accelerate short distances, then brake, enter a corner and power out of the corner again, torque is what matters, and having high peak HP at high rpm is irrelevant on all but long straight roads. If we all just drove on long flat straight roads, then yes, horsepower would be all that mattered, and we'd all drive a 13B turbo rotary.
gizlaroc said:
I would get a Juice Box, far more of them been used.
I wouldn't worry about the torque though, I just can't see the issue there. I went back to an M3 after the 335i and that only has 269lbs ft of torque, but was felt so much quicker than my mapped 335i, which had 380bhp and 360lbs ft.
Torque feels quick for about a week, where as progressive power always feels quick.
I wouldn't worry about the torque though, I just can't see the issue there. I went back to an M3 after the 335i and that only has 269lbs ft of torque, but was felt so much quicker than my mapped 335i, which had 380bhp and 360lbs ft.
Torque feels quick for about a week, where as progressive power always feels quick.
gizlaroc said:
Exactly!
I don't want to win races, I want to have fun when not in traffic.
I never track my car (too much of a pansy) so in my world, having that low-mid range grunt (particularly overtaking in the 80 - 120 kph range is what does it for me. If I hang on to any gear above 2nd for too long, I'm waaay into license losing territory (in NZ, if you break 150kph / 90mph you pretty much get carted off to jail in the back of a cop car). Favourite thing about my N54 is the amount of urge it offers at highway speeds even in 5th or 6th gear. No downshift necessary! I don't want to win races, I want to have fun when not in traffic.
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