535i Manual gearbox.
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
Lowtimer said:
Er, supply and demand is exactly what I was talking about.
And if you want one it may be that you have to buy new or make compromises in spec age condition price and willing to trawl up and down the country looking for them. Simply put new can you actually buy a 540i stick shifter? Nope so it's all a moot point anyway 5 years time unless your willing to drive round in an old car you'll have no option
Edited by JNW1 on Wednesday 30th December 11:15
Totally true.
Slogging through congestion auto is sublime
Also if your simply with the family so sensible driving only again auto rules
On a track even if auto was faster if like the stick shifter
There are very few times with the congested or too dangerous to drive fast that a stick shifter would be of any benefit.
More economy too
Accelerates faster
Safer as two hands are on steering wheel for longer
Less running costs clutch etc
Slogging through congestion auto is sublime
Also if your simply with the family so sensible driving only again auto rules
On a track even if auto was faster if like the stick shifter
There are very few times with the congested or too dangerous to drive fast that a stick shifter would be of any benefit.
More economy too
Accelerates faster
Safer as two hands are on steering wheel for longer
Less running costs clutch etc
Welshbeef said:
Totally true.
Slogging through congestion auto is sublime
Also if your simply with the family so sensible driving only again auto rules
On a track even if auto was faster if like the stick shifter
There are very few times with the congested or too dangerous to drive fast that a stick shifter would be of any benefit.
More economy too
Accelerates faster
Safer as two hands are on steering wheel for longer
Less running costs clutch etc
In purely objective terms it's very difficult to make a case for a manual ahead of a modern auto or DCT; the reality is that even the best drivers don't get every gear change absolutely spot on and I certainly couldn't change gear well with the consistency the auto in my 335d manages. However, there are times when it's not all about the speed of the change or minimising the stress and for that reason a manual would be my preference for an early morning drive for a bit of fun over a challenging road - almost certainly slower than an auto or DCT equivalent but IMHO a sacrifice worth making for the greater involvement in the process. However, for the daily grind I don't really want to be that involved and hence an auto or DCT would now get my vote for that task; in a car like a 535i I think I'd lean towards an auto but would understand and doff my cap to anyone choosing a manual!Slogging through congestion auto is sublime
Also if your simply with the family so sensible driving only again auto rules
On a track even if auto was faster if like the stick shifter
There are very few times with the congested or too dangerous to drive fast that a stick shifter would be of any benefit.
More economy too
Accelerates faster
Safer as two hands are on steering wheel for longer
Less running costs clutch etc
JNW1 said:
In purely objective terms it's very difficult to make a case for a manual ahead of a modern auto or DCT; the reality is that even the best drivers don't get every gear change absolutely spot on and I certainly couldn't change gear well with the consistency the auto in my 335d manages. However, there are times when it's not all about the speed of the change or minimising the stress and for that reason a manual would be my preference for an early morning drive for a bit of fun over a challenging road - almost certainly slower than an auto or DCT equivalent but IMHO a sacrifice worth making for the greater involvement in the process. However, for the daily grind I don't really want to be that involved and hence an auto or DCT would now get my vote for that task; in a car like a 535i I think I'd lean towards an auto but would understand and doff my cap to anyone choosing a manual!
I once calculated the number of gear changes in a slog of a mere 25 miles in heavy traffic it was well over 1,000 changes. I soon bought an auto after that and it greatly improved the commute experience.
I'd have chosen manual 99% of the time previously, but the ZF 8 speed is astonishing.
Better than the manual in a car like the M135i (imho) and better than the DCT (from my E92 M3 experience).
I was considering an M2 recently, and would have spec'd the manual over the DCT... but if they'd offered the ZF 8 speed it would have been a much tougher decision.
Better than the manual in a car like the M135i (imho) and better than the DCT (from my E92 M3 experience).
I was considering an M2 recently, and would have spec'd the manual over the DCT... but if they'd offered the ZF 8 speed it would have been a much tougher decision.
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Sorry? The car is hardly heavier than a 3 series.
Eh? The F10 is the same size as an 80's or 90's 7 Series. It also weights around 1800 kilos.
In short - it's a tank!
Manual gearbox? Might as well spec it with cloth, a cassette player and wind up windows. Some people prefer that sort of thing, apparently.
Now, an E36 328i? About 1350 kg. A manual box? Most definitely.
iSore said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Sorry? The car is hardly heavier than a 3 series.
Eh? The F10 is the same size as an 80's or 90's 7 Series. It also weights around 1800 kilos.
In short - it's a tank!
Manual gearbox? Might as well spec it with cloth, a cassette player and wind up windows. Some people prefer that sort of thing, apparently.
Now, an E36 328i? About 1350 kg. A manual box? Most definitely.
BMW F10 535i MT 1685kg
BMW F30 335i MT 1615kg
So 70 kg - or one light person
For what it's worth, the E60 is only 30 odd kg heavier than the E90
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Eh?
BMW F10 535i MT 1685kg
BMW F30 335i MT 1615kg
So 70 kg - or one light person
For what it's worth, the E60 is only 30 odd kg heavier than the E90
An F10 535i auto is 1765kg according to BMW's website; they don't quote a figure for a manual (because they don't make them any more!) but looking at something like a 520d the auto adds only 10kg which would still make a manual 535i well over 1700kg? Does the figure you're quoting for the 535i include the standard allowance for fuel/driver/luggage per the EU definition; looks like the one for the 335i probably does so perhaps we're comparing apples and pears here? On a like for like basis an F31 335i is 200kg lighter than an F11 535i so a difference of only 70kg between the saloon equivalents doesn't feel quite right to me......BMW F10 535i MT 1685kg
BMW F30 335i MT 1615kg
So 70 kg - or one light person
For what it's worth, the E60 is only 30 odd kg heavier than the E90
Crikey, what have I (re)started?!
For what it's worth, the E39 530i Touring that I had before this F11 was an auto. Great car, solidly built, looked great, however the auto box was the one niggle. Concerns about failure asside, it simply didn't allow me to fully enjoy what the car was capable of...although when stuck in traffic it was nice.
However, the manual box in my F11 is great, I feel far more involved in the drive, can actually get home when it snows, and have none of the worries about gearbox failure (although I appreciate that the 8 speed auto perhaps doesn't come with the same concerns as the unit that was in the E39). As for being stuck in traffic, well yes, it's not as good as an auto would be, but hey it's not as if the clutch is heavy as hell, just push with the leg and snick with the hand....not exactly taxing.
One final argument in favour of manuals, and this may sound a bit wierd but it really did bug me with the E39. Motorway driving, brake lights cause the concertina effect that ultimately leads to stop start traffic as each car brakes slightly more than the one in front. I want no part in causing stop start traffic and so try to avoid using my brakes whenever possible and use the gears to adjust my speed when the flow of traffic ahead slows slightly. I cried inside every time I was forced to feather the brake pedal in the e39.
So, anyone want an ultra rare and traffic jam busting F11?!
For what it's worth, the E39 530i Touring that I had before this F11 was an auto. Great car, solidly built, looked great, however the auto box was the one niggle. Concerns about failure asside, it simply didn't allow me to fully enjoy what the car was capable of...although when stuck in traffic it was nice.
However, the manual box in my F11 is great, I feel far more involved in the drive, can actually get home when it snows, and have none of the worries about gearbox failure (although I appreciate that the 8 speed auto perhaps doesn't come with the same concerns as the unit that was in the E39). As for being stuck in traffic, well yes, it's not as good as an auto would be, but hey it's not as if the clutch is heavy as hell, just push with the leg and snick with the hand....not exactly taxing.
One final argument in favour of manuals, and this may sound a bit wierd but it really did bug me with the E39. Motorway driving, brake lights cause the concertina effect that ultimately leads to stop start traffic as each car brakes slightly more than the one in front. I want no part in causing stop start traffic and so try to avoid using my brakes whenever possible and use the gears to adjust my speed when the flow of traffic ahead slows slightly. I cried inside every time I was forced to feather the brake pedal in the e39.
So, anyone want an ultra rare and traffic jam busting F11?!
Danstable said:
Crikey, what have I (re)started?!
For what it's worth, the E39 530i Touring that I had before this F11 was an auto. Great car, solidly built, looked great, however the auto box was the one niggle. Concerns about failure asside, it simply didn't allow me to fully enjoy what the car was capable of...although when stuck in traffic it was nice.
However, the manual box in my F11 is great, I feel far more involved in the drive, can actually get home when it snows, and have none of the worries about gearbox failure (although I appreciate that the 8 speed auto perhaps doesn't come with the same concerns as the unit that was in the E39). As for being stuck in traffic, well yes, it's not as good as an auto would be, but hey it's not as if the clutch is heavy as hell, just push with the leg and snick with the hand....not exactly taxing.
One final argument in favour of manuals, and this may sound a bit wierd but it really did bug me with the E39. Motorway driving, brake lights cause the concertina effect that ultimately leads to stop start traffic as each car brakes slightly more than the one in front. I want no part in causing stop start traffic and so try to avoid using my brakes whenever possible and use the gears to adjust my speed when the flow of traffic ahead slows slightly. I cried inside every time I was forced to feather the brake pedal in the e39.
So, anyone want an ultra rare and traffic jam busting F11?!
You used gears to slow down on the M Way? To me simply lifting off the throttle is slowing down if your down changing to slow the car up there is no indication to the car behind that you are doing that and they might give you a gentle bumper kiss or have to brake much harder when they see you getting far closer than you should & assume your driving with blown rear brake lights. For what it's worth, the E39 530i Touring that I had before this F11 was an auto. Great car, solidly built, looked great, however the auto box was the one niggle. Concerns about failure asside, it simply didn't allow me to fully enjoy what the car was capable of...although when stuck in traffic it was nice.
However, the manual box in my F11 is great, I feel far more involved in the drive, can actually get home when it snows, and have none of the worries about gearbox failure (although I appreciate that the 8 speed auto perhaps doesn't come with the same concerns as the unit that was in the E39). As for being stuck in traffic, well yes, it's not as good as an auto would be, but hey it's not as if the clutch is heavy as hell, just push with the leg and snick with the hand....not exactly taxing.
One final argument in favour of manuals, and this may sound a bit wierd but it really did bug me with the E39. Motorway driving, brake lights cause the concertina effect that ultimately leads to stop start traffic as each car brakes slightly more than the one in front. I want no part in causing stop start traffic and so try to avoid using my brakes whenever possible and use the gears to adjust my speed when the flow of traffic ahead slows slightly. I cried inside every time I was forced to feather the brake pedal in the e39.
So, anyone want an ultra rare and traffic jam busting F11?!
Be seen be safe
Also how long did your brake pads last? Mine tend to comfortably last 60k I've had one set last well over 100k and the discs were fine too and I do feather the brake yours must lambs replaced due to age and brittleness over wearing out.
Welshbeef said:
You used gears to slow down on the M Way? To me simply lifting off the throttle is slowing down if your down changing to slow the car up there is no indication to the car behind that you are doing that and they might give you a gentle bumper kiss or have to brake much harder when they see you getting far closer than you should & assume your driving with blown rear brake lights.
Be seen be safe
Also how long did your brake pads last? Mine tend to comfortably last 60k I've had one set last well over 100k and the discs were fine too and I do feather the brake yours must lambs replaced due to age and brittleness over wearing out.
Don't worry, I'm always aware of what's going on behind me and wouldn't avoid using brakes if I consider that a warning to those behind is required. Simply lifting off the throttle in the e39 didn't produce the same slowing effect as it does in manuals (in my experience).Be seen be safe
Also how long did your brake pads last? Mine tend to comfortably last 60k I've had one set last well over 100k and the discs were fine too and I do feather the brake yours must lambs replaced due to age and brittleness over wearing out.
As for replacing brake pads, I don't recall but I only do about 12k miles per year and tend to keep my cars for no more than three years, so it is quite possible that I didn't have to replace them at all.
Danstable said:
Simply lifting off the throttle in the e39 didn't produce the same slowing effect as it does in manuals (in my experience).
Not sure if it's just a result of higher gearing but there certainly seems to be less engine braking effect with an auto and it caught me out a few times when I first got my 335d as I kept having to dab the brakes whereas in a manual just lifting the throttle would have taken sufficient speed off; you do get used to it eventually although I suspect if anything autos are slightly heavier on brakes as a result of the reduced effect of engine braking. Edited by JNW1 on Thursday 31st December 09:39
JNW1 said:
Not sure if it's just a result of higher gearing but there certainly seems to be less engine braking effect with an auto and it caught me out a few times when I first got my 335d as I kept having to dab the brakes whereas in a manual just lifting the throttle would have taken sufficient speed off; you do get used to it eventually although I suspect if anything autos are slightly heavier on brakes as a result of the reduced effect of engine braking.
Did you ever have the fun moment in snow when you were braking to a standstill but just found yourself continuing forward at about 4mph? I learned after the first time to knock it in to neutral otherwise the fronts would lock whilst the rear would keep on driving you forward snow plough style. Was a weird sensation until I raised what was happening.Edited by JNW1 on Thursday 31st December 09:39
Danstable said:
Did you ever have the fun moment in snow when you were braking to a standstill but just found yourself continuing forward at about 4mph? I learned after the first time to knock it in to neutral otherwise the fronts would lock whilst the rear would keep on driving you forward snow plough style. Was a weird sensation until I raised what was happening.
Didn't encounter any significant snow in these parts last winter (my first with the car) and haven't seen any so far this winter either; however, thanks for the warning!Danstable said:
Did you ever have the fun moment in snow when you were braking to a standstill but just found yourself continuing forward at about 4mph? I learned after the first time to knock it in to neutral otherwise the fronts would lock whilst the rear would keep on driving you forward snow plough style. Was a weird sensation until I raised what was happening.
This used to happen to me on my e46's, never did on the newer generation autos I've had (E90, E60)Was an odd feeling at first though!
iSore said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Eh?
BMW F10 535i MT 1685kg
Incorrect.BMW F10 535i MT 1685kg
1760 kg - unless you know something BMW don't?
1685Kg
+
Fuel
Engine oil
Coolant
Brake fluid
Power steering fluid
Transmission fluid
Washer fluid
+ 75Kg driver
= curb weight in the high 1700Kg region.
Latest EU definition of "mass in running order" (curb weight) according to 1230/2012/EEC:•"the mass of the vehicle, with its fuel tank(s) filled to at least 90 % of its or their capacity/ies, including the mass of the driver, of the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, the cabin, the coupling and the spare wheel(s) as well as the tools
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