Autocar M3 vs D3 test

Autocar M3 vs D3 test

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Discussion

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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RichardM5 said:
The video does not reflect the comments regarding the acceleration test.

At the start, both cars are at 0mph, the Alpina even shows maybe 5 mph on the analogue dial



By the end of that short clip, the M3 is clearly significantly ahead, 51 vs 43 mph.



The settings show that the M3 was in Economy, Sport, Sport with 1/2 a tank of fuel and the Alpina had Launch Control active, Sport+ with an empty tank. Granted, these may have not been the actual clips from the data they used, but the settings are stacked in the Alpinas favour and yet the M3 performs better.
Remember that on the first shot the digital speedo shows 0 for both.

Also we don't know what settings either are from those shots if one is in best setting and the other not that is not correct.

Fuel difference is not right too - but its c20kg so on the weight of these leviathans will make no difference.

cerb4.5lee

30,179 posts

179 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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I think the M3 must be the most defended car in history as pretty much everyone always sticks up for it as if its the only performance car you can go out and buy, I enjoyed the test and admitted I thought the M3 would absolutely batter the D3 but because it didn't I think the D3 makes a great alternative if you do prefer an oil burner.

Bottom line for me is go and buy the one you fancy but I have never really understood how the M3 is constantly made out to be the holy grail no matter what generation it is and times have changed and the fact that the competition is very strong can only be a good thing for punters who want an alternative.

The M3 will always be a great car in isolation but I think as the generations have developed it has now become less and less the default choice.

philmots

4,630 posts

259 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Nobody expects the D3 to be as quick in a straight line, I'd not be fussed if it was a good few car lengths behind. That would be expected.

Was the test on the handling course rigged too?

ady702

376 posts

146 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Would love the D3 as I don't like visiting BP/Shell very often!

Kinetic D

25 posts

155 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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M3, simply as it looks better. That's not to say the D3 isn't a great car, but it is a little too subtle in the looks department.

335d

758 posts

117 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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Kinetic D said:
M3, simply as it looks better. That's not to say the D3 isn't a great car, but it is a little too subtle in the looks department.
Apart from the giant 20" wheels, 4 large oval exhaust pipes and ALPINA lettering on the front air dam? wink

I take your point though - the rest of it looks like an SE

drmark

4,793 posts

185 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
RichardM5 said:
The video does not reflect the comments regarding the acceleration test.

At the start, both cars are at 0mph, the Alpina even shows maybe 5 mph on the analogue dial



By the end of that short clip, the M3 is clearly significantly ahead, 51 vs 43 mph.



The settings show that the M3 was in Economy, Sport, Sport with 1/2 a tank of fuel and the Alpina had Launch Control active, Sport+ with an empty tank. Granted, these may have not been the actual clips from the data they used, but the settings are stacked in the Alpinas favour and yet the M3 performs better.
Aye, but who have thought we would have to split hairs to explain why the D3 came out of the test in such a favourable light against the latest gen M3 (and unsettle those lucky enough to own one). Mine's a touring please on 19s with no stickers. Superb Q car.

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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smashy said:
While your on here Gizze you may recall my 120d auto like yours well the timing chain went yesterday ,the turbo 18 months ago the engine is finished.... 115K ...knew it would happen what a pile of... that N47 engine is.
Missed this.

What are you going to do?

Refurbed engine fitted for £2k in Essex.

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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weve had this convo on the Alpina forum glzze(where you were taking stick ,wrongly by the way) ,thats where it is at the moment thanks yep £2100 from a donar car that had a back end shunt 19000 miles 2011, With a years warranty and free service.

///Mike

862 posts

206 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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Great video, I enjoyed it in the sense that I think it was balanced and a fair review. I didn't enjoy the fact that it has helped put the final nail in the coffin of my lust for new M cars. I have had the pleasure of owning a number of M3's of various guises and primarily its the balance the theatre and the fact that all the power is at the top that's made them such fun to own whilst offering a practical platform that I can use everyday. I think the F10 M5 was the first nail in the coffin and the new M3 appears to be a scaled down version much like it has been for some time. If it were not for market pressures around emissions I genuinely don't think this car would have many of the characteristics it now poses. Its not BMWs fault its just a shame that we have to go in this direction. In the past I have considered going from an M to a 911 but each time after coming close I have always stuck around for another M. My E92 will be my last as whilst its big and heavy compared to the original design brief of the M3 it does have the balance and the theatre. To be fair I should go and drive an M3/M4 but I have had a dip into turbo power before when the E82 135 came out and I did love the car but soon got bored of the power delivery and craved a proper top end screamer again.

I do fairly substantial mileage in my M and filling the car sometimes twice a day when out on business is only made bearable by the overall experience. With the new blown M cars adding such a small margin of fun over a quick sludge powered equivalent the gap is simply too narrow now for me to feel that the additional costs are worthwhile. Gutted really.

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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Mike if you can afford to fill up a car twice a day,dont ever,ever ,be gutted.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
///Mike said:
Great video, I enjoyed it in the sense that I think it was balanced and a fair review. I didn't enjoy the fact that it has helped put the final nail in the coffin of my lust for new M cars. I have had the pleasure of owning a number of M3's of various guises and primarily its the balance the theatre and the fact that all the power is at the top that's made them such fun to own whilst offering a practical platform that I can use everyday. I think the F10 M5 was the first nail in the coffin and the new M3 appears to be a scaled down version much like it has been for some time. If it were not for market pressures around emissions I genuinely don't think this car would have many of the characteristics it now poses. Its not BMWs fault its just a shame that we have to go in this direction. In the past I have considered going from an M to a 911 but each time after coming close I have always stuck around for another M. My E92 will be my last as whilst its big and heavy compared to the original design brief of the M3 it does have the balance and the theatre. To be fair I should go and drive an M3/M4 but I have had a dip into turbo power before when the E82 135 came out and I did love the car but soon got bored of the power delivery and craved a proper top end screamer again.

I do fairly substantial mileage in my M and filling the car sometimes twice a day when out on business is only made bearable by the overall experience. With the new blown M cars adding such a small margin of fun over a quick sludge powered equivalent the gap is simply too narrow now for me to feel that the additional costs are worthwhile. Gutted really.
Keep the competition pack and enjoy it - I've only seen one on the road and it looked very nice.

Fuel two times a day...., at 25 mpg you are either doing some hefty daily miles or love the revs all the time smile

///Mike

862 posts

206 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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Yes I should state that I haven't yet used two full tanks but I have on many occasions had to stop again to get home and I always brim it when I am stopped. Work cover the fuel so its less of an issue more of an inconvenience but well worth if for the noise. Most long trips to meetings offer up start stop traffic which obviously murders the economy, plenty of dull cruising at a very acceptable 30mpg and then the inevitable full beans moments where the child in me just means I have to let the reins out a little (or a lot) from time to time smile

Manchester and back as an example is about 400+ miles for me, Norwich where I also have customers 380. Both would be no sweat at all under similar conditions in a decent sludge powered BMW.

I will thoroughly enjoy taking the car to 80K miles and then re-evaluate what comes next!

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
smashy said:
weve had this convo on the Alpina forum glzze(where you were taking stick ,wrongly by the way) ,thats where it is at the moment thanks yep £2100 from a donar car that had a back end shunt 19000 miles 2011, With a years warranty and free service.
I forget you're Pete when you post on here with that username.

Wills2

22,666 posts

174 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Keep the competition pack and enjoy it - I've only seen one on the road and it looked very nice.

Fuel two times a day...., at 25 mpg you are either doing some hefty daily miles or love the revs all the time smile
Very easy to do in my M3, I used to do the same 38k in 18 months that's why I moved on to the 335d.


Kinetic D

25 posts

155 months

Thursday 31st July 2014
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335d said:
Apart from the giant 20" wheels, 4 large oval exhaust pipes and ALPINA lettering on the front air dam? wink

I take your point though - the rest of it looks like an SE
Yes, the front end just doesn't do it for me compared to the M3...

eliotrw

302 posts

168 months

Thursday 31st July 2014
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I didn't realise there were two threads for this so I'll say this in here as well.

I don't buy it.
Now, Please don't look into this as a classic M car fanboy response, I can promise you its not, Instead lets look at this a little deeper and think about some facts here.

Before we do that I think its is my opinion that
A) Auto car have something against the new M3/M4
B) The way he is driving the M3 in that video seems totally hamfisted in comparison to the D3. Almost purposefully so.
C)even given the torque advantage this shouldn't be possible.

The facts and reasons I believe the result in this video is a lot of non subjective tosh are:
1)The M3 is lighter, I can't find the figures for the Alpina but it should be fairly significant, At very least 90kg less
2)The M3 has Michelin Supersports on wider tyres and lighter wheels
3)The M3 has a wider track
4)They M3 has a much lower centre of gravity due to the carbon roof + Alum bonnet
5)The shell in the M3 is stiffer and has a lot more bracing
6)I can't watch the vid here but if he's using a DCT then it should account for quite a lot of time, If not the manual trans in the M3 should give a small but not insignificant advantage with the new fanged blips that make it a little easier to use
7)Although the "on paper" figure for the m3 is 425hp it has been shown serveal times in the US that on 91 Octane it actually makes that at the wheels. I.e 460 at the flywheel.

I could go on but I can't be arsed.
Like I said, I Don't buy it.


Edited by eliotrw on Thursday 31st July 13:27


Edited by eliotrw on Thursday 31st July 13:28

cslwannabe

1,395 posts

168 months

Thursday 31st July 2014
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I thought the driving of the M seemed hamfisted but watched the EVO M4 vs 911 track battle and it is just the same. Really can't see they'd resort to using ECO mode though...

moffat

1,020 posts

224 months

Thursday 7th August 2014
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Having now driven the M3 I can confirm that it is a disappointment. The negative views on the new M3/M4 are completely justified in my opinion:

- Dull uncharasmatic engine (compared to all previous M3 engines)
- Fake sound trickery still doesn't enhance it
- Far too muted to drive
- Lifeless steering (compared to old car and my C63)

On the plus side it is mega fast and handled well and looked great. I had it as a dead cert to replace my C63, but it left me underwhelmed and I was gutted.

I can easily see why the new D3 would be better, but consider:

- No discounts on Alpinas
- No good finance deals
- 2 year warranty

On the M3/M4 there are considerably better finance and contract lease deals. I was quoted £300-400 more per month for the D3 over the M3.




JNW1

7,707 posts

193 months

Friday 8th August 2014
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moffat said:


I was quoted £300-400 more per month for the D3 over the M3.
I realise Autocar tested a D3 against an M3 (to do the diesel v petrol thing) but surely anyone considering an M3/M4 would look first at a B3/B4? Good as the D3 clearly is I really can't see the point over a B3 unless you do a high mileage and value the longer range.....