Swapping LCI 320d for pre-LCI 330i?

[bennyboysvuk]

The 330i does suck the fuel a bit, but if you're happy with that and the rather 'safe' handling characteristics of the car then the 330i could be for you.

Mine's heavier on the fuel than I was expecting, around town it barely betters 19mpg and on b-roads it doesn't better 23mpg if you're going briskly. I don't think I've ever seen 30mpg from it, even on long motorway cruises.

The engine/exhaust does sound good from outside, but it's extremely muted inside unless you're heading for the redline.

Part of the reason for choosing the car was that there are no turbos, DPFs, HP fuel pumps or any wallet churning surprises and it won't land me on the side of an autoroute when driving through France and from that perspective, it's been great.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Economy-wise mine will typically return mid-20s on the daily 8mi crawl into work, maybe a bit less in winter - 22ish.

Mine will easily hit over 30mpg on a m-way cruise though.

[Gavstar]

bennyboysvuk said:

The 330i does suck the fuel a bit, but if you're happy with that and the rather 'safe' handling characteristics of the car then the 330i could be for you.

Mine's heavier on the fuel than I was expecting, around town it barely betters 19mpg and on b-roads it doesn't better 23mpg if you're going briskly. I don't think I've ever seen 30mpg from it, even on long motorway cruises.

The engine/exhaust does sound good from outside, but it's extremely muted inside unless you're heading for the redline.

Part of the reason for choosing the car was that there are no turbos, DPFs, HP fuel pumps or any wallet churning surprises and it won't land me on the side of an autoroute when driving through France and from that perspective, it's been great.

Handling wise I'm expecting it to be very similar to my 320d. Economy doesn't bother me as i do 5k pa. I really miss the sound of a nice engine, having sold my Chimaera last year and this being my first diesel I literally can't stand the noise the cr makes when I start it up.

[Court_S]

I've got a pre LCI 330 saloon on an 06 plate that I paid £7k for last year privately. It's in really good nick with a few age related marks but had a good service history which stacked up when checked out.

Had it a year and it's been a really good car, one that I'll struggle to replace without spending a lot more money. I just wish that I'd held out for a touring because the saloon is useless at carrying stuff.

On an older car watch out for a leaking fuel tank vent pipe. These pass through the chassis and rub, eventually splitting. Ours suffers from it, although it's only noticeable when the tank is brimmed and there is a string smell of petrol at the rear of the car.

I do t find the pre-LCI lights that offensive so have no real desire to change them, but I hate the large square wing mirrors on LCI cars. Weird I know, but the smaller sleeker ones on older cars look better to my eyes.

My car averages around 25mpg on mostly shorter trips although it rise to 33 on a steady run up to Newcastle at 75 with cruise on. Thrash it and it will drink.

I quite liked the autobox at first but having had the car I think the 330 would be better with a manual because the auto is quite lazy, especially in normal mode. It's better in sport mode but I doubt it makes the most of the engine. It's not bad, but it find the transition from pottering to driving quicker the most irritating. Finding a manual will be hard though because most tick the auto option on higher end BM's.

[bennyboysvuk]

Gavstar said:

Handling wise I'm expecting it to be very similar to my 320d. Economy doesn't bother me as i do 5k pa. I really miss the sound of a nice engine, having sold my Chimaera last year and this being my first diesel I literally can't stand the noise the cr makes when I start it up.

I went from an M3 to a 120D a few years back and it felt like a total loss on all levels (I still don't know why I did it) so I feel your pain. Nowadays, I find the 120D preferable to the 330i in how it handles and behaves in a more generally sporty manner. Like you say though, on startup the 120D is very much a diesel, whereas the 330i is silky smooth straight 6 all the way.

[aussieal]

bennyboysvuk said:

I find the 120D preferable to the 330i in how it handles and behaves in a more generally sporty manner.

Can't imagine you'll find many people agreeing with you on that - 4 cylinder 2.0 diesel more sporty than a 6 cylinder 3.0 petrol?

Different strokes though I suppose, personally never found anything sporty about any 4 cylinder diesel.

[Swervin_Mervin]

aussieal said:

bennyboysvuk said:

I find the 120D preferable to the 330i in how it handles and behaves in a more generally sporty manner.

Can't imagine you'll find many people agreeing with you on that - 4 cylinder 2.0 diesel more sporty than a 6 cylinder 3.0 petrol?

Different strokes though I suppose, personally never found anything sporty about any 4 cylinder diesel.

He's actually bob on imo. I've had the wife's 120D for 2 days and it's a lot more chuckable. But then it would be wouldn't it? It's smaller and obviously lighter for one. And the 3 isn't really cut out to be thrown around.

[bennyboysvuk]

Swervin_Mervin said:

aussieal said:

bennyboysvuk said:

I find the 120D preferable to the 330i in how it handles and behaves in a more generally sporty manner.

Can't imagine you'll find many people agreeing with you on that - 4 cylinder 2.0 diesel more sporty than a 6 cylinder 3.0 petrol?

Different strokes though I suppose, personally never found anything sporty about any 4 cylinder diesel.

He's actually bob on imo. I've had the wife's 120D for 2 days and it's a lot more chuckable. But then it would be wouldn't it? It's smaller and obviously lighter for one. And the 3 isn't really cut out to be thrown around.

Mervin's absolutely right. The 3 series is the same size as the old 5 series. It's a heavy cruisy barge with an automatic gearbox. It's also set up to handle like an Audi A8 (understeer central). The 6 cylinder petrol engine does sound nice, but all throttle response is ruined by the autobox. It's a very unexciting car to drive. By comparison, the 120D (mine's an M-Sport manual) is a whippet of a thing that darts into corners and has the back coming into play on corner entry much like Clio 182s of old. It's also tiny compared to the 3 series and thus gives you loads more options for where to place the car on a b-road.

[Gavstar]

bennyboysvuk said:

Mervin's absolutely right. The 3 series is the same size as the old 5 series. It's a heavy cruisy barge with an automatic gearbox. It's also set up to handle like an Audi A8 (understeer central). The 6 cylinder petrol engine does sound nice, but all throttle response is ruined by the autobox. It's a very unexciting car to drive. By comparison, the 120D (mine's an M-Sport manual) is a whippet of a thing that darts into corners and has the back coming into play on corner entry much like Clio 182s of old. It's also tiny compared to the 3 series and thus gives you loads more options for where to place the car on a b-road.

Interesting to hear a contrasting opinion as almost all other owners are singing the car's praises. Personally I'm happy with the size and handling characteristics of my 320d, but find the short sharp jerky acceleration unsatisfying. The short time between gear changes always reminds me of being driven in a minicab. My hope is the 330i will be the perfect mix.

[Swervin_Mervin]

For me the 330 is the perfect mix. I've done the small and chuckable thing with a series of hot hatches. It was just nice to have something like that again for a couple of days.

I don't find the 3 too understeery either tbh, but then it seems to me you almost have to push through the tendency towards understeer and it will tighten its line. I've recently been driving a lot with DTC fully off and much prefer it.

[bodhi]

bennyboysvuk said:

I went from an M3 to a 120D a few years back and it felt like a total loss on all levels (I still don't know why I did it) so I feel your pain. Nowadays, I find the 120D preferable to the 330i in how it handles and behaves in a more generally sporty manner. Like you say though, on startup the 120D is very much a diesel, whereas the 330i is silky smooth straight 6 all the way.

Sounds like the answer is a 125i/130i. Chuckable handling and that lovely straight 6 singing up front.

[lord trumpton]

bodhi said:

bennyboysvuk said:

I went from an M3 to a 120D a few years back and it felt like a total loss on all levels (I still don't know why I did it) so I feel your pain. Nowadays, I find the 120D preferable to the 330i in how it handles and behaves in a more generally sporty manner. Like you say though, on startup the 120D is very much a diesel, whereas the 330i is silky smooth straight 6 all the way.

Sounds like the answer is a 125i/130i. Chuckable handling and that lovely straight 6 singing up front.

And steering so devoid of feel that it's as if you are driving with oven gloves on. I had a 135i coupe for a few months and steering feel and sensitivity was all but nothing

[bennyboysvuk]

bodhi said:

Sounds like the answer is a 125i/130i. Chuckable handling and that lovely straight 6 singing up front.

I came to that conclusion last night as I was viewing the classifieds. Better still, a 130i with Quaife LSD can be had for what my car's worth. If only I could convince the wife.

[bennyboysvuk]

Swervin_Mervin said:

I don't find the 3 too understeery either tbh, but then it seems to me you almost have to push through the tendency towards understeer and it will tighten its line. I've recently been driving a lot with DTC fully off and much prefer it.

The E9* series of BMW have a completely different front suspension design to it's predecessors which use a weak bush where previously there was a ball joint with no give at all and a bush. The new design, when pushed hard, will deflect allowing the camber to go to more positive camber, which is disastrous for grip, but very safe (well, whatever you hit, it will be with the front of the car and never the rear). Thus, when cornering briskly the car will lose its geometry at the front and will understeer. It can be partially fixed for about £400 by fitting M3 wishbones which provide more camber and have solid bushes.

The other issue is the tiny rear ARB. It's far from stiff enough, which equates to a very understeer-led balance. The 330i's arbs are 13mm different front to rear, whereas the M3's difference is 4mm, which provides a much more neutral chassis balance. This is a tougher job though since from what I gather, the rear axle has to be dropped to get access to the ARB to change it.

I am being particularly fussy though and was rather hoping that the E91 would handle like previous 3 series, but it's nowhere near in terms of front-rear balance.

[bennyboysvuk]

Gavstar said:

Interesting to hear a contrasting opinion as almost all other owners are singing the car's praises. Personally I'm happy with the size and handling characteristics of my 320d, but find the short sharp jerky acceleration unsatisfying. The short time between gear changes always reminds me of being driven in a minicab. My hope is the 330i will be the perfect mix.

The rev band is much, much wider and the engine sound far more diverse in the 330i compared to my experience of BMW 4 pot diesels, so from that perspective it is enjoyable. I'd say it is an accomplished car rather than an exciting one though. Actually passengering in it is quite nice though and it's possible to see quite how briskly it does accelerate (not that you'd know it) and absolutely sails past the NSL with a lovely noise to boot.

All that said, if they'd sold this, it would be on my driveway right now:

[Gavstar]

Audi S4 Avant worth considering instead? 4WD, V8 rumble....thoughts?

[Gavstar]

Gavstar said:

Audi S4 Avant worth considering instead? 4WD, V8 rumble....thoughts?

OK silly idea, now I've just read about running costs!

[Naldrett]

I have owned both an Audi S4 V8 Manual (Saloon) and 330i Manual (N52 Touring) - both in great condition and well maintained - and I found the 330i by far the more enjoyable car to drive. There honestly doesn't seem the 70bhp or so difference you would expect, partly due to the weight of the S4 with all its 4WD transmission to haul around and also because the the S4's power feels mostly low down due to the better torque whereas the 330i encourages you to hold onto the gears longer. Soundwise, nothing in it really - V8 is nice, especially at lower revs as I remember, but the 330i really makes a nice noise again as the revs pick up. The optional BMW Performance exhaust then makes it something special again (see vids on youtube).

The manual S4 is really let down by its gearing - you would think it would be relaxing cruising on the motorway at 70-80mph in a 4.2 litre V8 but if I remember rightly even in sixth it was at 3,000+ rpm meaning it sucked fuel like no-ones business. By contrast the 330i manual box's ratios I would say are perfect. Auto S4 I believe has different ratios.

Audi's only real advantage for me was the quality of the interior which I would say is the best I have owned (though the standard sports seats of the BMW I always found more comfortable than the beautiful alcantara/leather Recaros in the S4). And perhaps the ride, which although not perfect was better than the trashy ride on the 330i with standard sports suspension & runflats (though I resolved that with non-runflats and an aftermarket suspension set up).

Hope that helps!

[cerb4.5lee]

I have a E90 330i 2006 N52 model and I think it is a really good all round car and when I purchased it my expectations of it were seriously low as I got it basically to get from A to B so in that regard it delivers easily however I do wish I had waited and gone for a manual rather than the auto as I think the manual would make the best of that lovely engine far more.

I agree with others that in reality its a bit of a barge and doesn't really enjoy being hustled but its not that type of car really anyway so in some senses perhaps it suits an auto better but one thing I cant speak highly enough of is the engine and I am a huge fan of it and that's with owning a V8 M3 and Z4M previously so I think that's very high praise in itself.