LED headlights - how much better?
Discussion
ruggedscotty said:
One thing to note with LED lamps is that these dont produce a lot of heat - so winter they freeze up etc....
"these don’t produce a lot of heat" is not correct. Until not too long ago, full LED lamps in cars required active cooling with a fan to bring them down to a manageable temperature!
I’m not sure if this is still the case but it may very well be.
Audi solved the defrosting issue by temporarily routing the very hot air from the LED heatsinks directly onto the front lens. I read that some LED headlamps are even liquid cooled because the energy density is so extremely high compared to "regular" lamps.
Although LED head lights require more cooling it's not because they get hotter than Halogen or Xenon lights, they don't. It's because the LED itself must be kept relatively cool. If you ran the LED at the same temperature as a Halogen bulb it would fail almost instantly. 100°C is damagingly hot for an LED, a halogen filament has to run at 2,500°C with a inner wall temperature of 250°C to work at all. Although Xenon lights run cooler and are more efficient than Halogen, manufactures don't like them as they require the high voltage igniter pack which is potentially dangerous and prone to failure in the wet environment that they tend to live.
LED lights will become the norm, with LED Laser lights (as on the i8) becoming the high end option.
LED lights will become the norm, with LED Laser lights (as on the i8) becoming the high end option.
Buzz Lightyear said:
Osinjak said:
I saw an animated explanation of how they work, pretty impressive to be honest. You could basically leave them on full beam and they do all the work for you. They'll even split when you come up behind a car to avoid dazzling the driver. Worth a google.
This is wrong.Edited by Osinjak on Wednesday 10th September 18:05
This isn't down to LED lights in particular, but down to something called "Selective Beam". This features on my 2 series and those are only xenon's.
Osinjak said:
Buzz Lightyear said:
Osinjak said:
I saw an animated explanation of how they work, pretty impressive to be honest. You could basically leave them on full beam and they do all the work for you. They'll even split when you come up behind a car to avoid dazzling the driver. Worth a google.
This is wrong.Edited by Osinjak on Wednesday 10th September 18:05
This isn't down to LED lights in particular, but down to something called "Selective Beam". This features on my 2 series and those are only xenon's.
Your post, while valid, was misleading. The adaptive feature (splitting) is not exclusive to LEDs but also Xenon - so when the OP is wondering whether to get LED it's an irrelevance.
That said, IMO the difference between Xenon and LED is nowhere near as great as Halogen to Xenon. If the upgrade was a few hundred then I'd consider it, but for £1600 no thanks.
It's criminal that BMW still put halogen on as standard anyway.
Mattt said:
Your post, while valid, was misleading. The adaptive feature (splitting) is not exclusive to LEDs but also Xenon - so when the OP is wondering whether to get LED it's an irrelevance.
It's not an irrelevance is it? The OP asked about LEDs not Xenons, not Halogens. I knew of a video clip that demonstrated the capability of LEDs, I posted the clip up to help the OP and nothing else. Turns out the feature is available on Xenons, which I didn't know, so rather than getting all adenoidal about it and telling me 'I'm wrong' (which I'm not) you could just as easily say the feature is available on some Xenons as well.Jesus H f
k. I seriously wonder sometimes why I bother. You can't post anything on this website without someone going you're wrong or you're over the top or whatever. It's a video clip, if you've got something add to it, add to it rather than coming across as a sanctimonious bell end.Have the thread, it's yours. Fill your boots. I've completely lost interest.
Edited by Osinjak on Thursday 11th September 16:53
Osinjak said:
It's not an irrelevance is it? The OP asked about LEDs not Xenons, not Halogens. I knew of a video clip that demonstrated the capability of LEDs, I posted the clip up to help the OP and nothing else. Turns out the feature is available on Xenons, which I didn't know, so rather than getting all adenoidal about it and telling me 'I'm wrong' (which I'm not) you could just as easily say the feature is available on some Xenons as well.
Jesus H fk. I seriously wonder sometimes why I bother. You can't post anything on this website without someone going you're wrong or you're over the top or whatever. It's a video clip, if you've got something add to it, add to it rather than coming across as a sanctimonious bell end.
Have the thread, it's yours. Fill your boots. I've completely lost interest.
Jesus H f
k. I seriously wonder sometimes why I bother. You can't post anything on this website without someone going you're wrong or you're over the top or whatever. It's a video clip, if you've got something add to it, add to it rather than coming across as a sanctimonious bell end.Have the thread, it's yours. Fill your boots. I've completely lost interest.
Edited by Osinjak on Thursday 11th September 16:53
Quoted for posterity.
Osinjak said:
It's not an irrelevance is it? The OP asked about LEDs not Xenons, not Halogens. I knew of a video clip that demonstrated the capability of LEDs, I posted the clip up to help the OP and nothing else. Turns out the feature is available on Xenons, which I didn't know, so rather than getting all adenoidal about it and telling me 'I'm wrong' (which I'm not) you could just as easily say the feature is available on some Xenons as well.
Jesus H fk. I seriously wonder sometimes why I bother. You can't post anything on this website without someone going you're wrong or you're over the top or whatever. It's a video clip, if you've got something add to it, add to it rather than coming across as a sanctimonious bell end.
Have the thread, it's yours. Fill your boots. I've completely lost interest.
Way over the top mate.Jesus H f
k. I seriously wonder sometimes why I bother. You can't post anything on this website without someone going you're wrong or you're over the top or whatever. It's a video clip, if you've got something add to it, add to it rather than coming across as a sanctimonious bell end.Have the thread, it's yours. Fill your boots. I've completely lost interest.
Edited by Osinjak on Thursday 11th September 16:53
As Matt said, it's just so people don't think you have to spec the £1600 LED lights to get Selective Beam.
Putting the handbags down for a moment the issue is value of these new lights.. Lets be honest ten years from now this forum will have people bhing about how terrible Xenon lighting is, how LED is only marginally better but how awrsome active scanned array doppler fibre optic lazer lights are.
They will still be driving 1.5 ton boxes at 55mph down the same dark roads and still not blindly driving into the hedge like they didnt in the years when halogen 'angel eyes' were the expensive new kid on the block. Its all a F'ing gimmick you dont need.
My opinion which is worth cock all but i share it anyway is that if you choose to spend £1600 on fancy lights for those dark winter months but DON'T spend £1600 on a set of winter tyres and alloys then you are stupid and intent on getting a really good view of your rear end collision right up until the momemt you shatter your Star Wars headlights into a million pieces.
Nobody. In the world. Cares about how trick your car headlights look. Its so teenage its tragic.
hing about how terrible Xenon lighting is, how LED is only marginally better but how awrsome active scanned array doppler fibre optic lazer lights are.They will still be driving 1.5 ton boxes at 55mph down the same dark roads and still not blindly driving into the hedge like they didnt in the years when halogen 'angel eyes' were the expensive new kid on the block. Its all a F'ing gimmick you dont need.
My opinion which is worth cock all but i share it anyway is that if you choose to spend £1600 on fancy lights for those dark winter months but DON'T spend £1600 on a set of winter tyres and alloys then you are stupid and intent on getting a really good view of your rear end collision right up until the momemt you shatter your Star Wars headlights into a million pieces.
Nobody. In the world. Cares about how trick your car headlights look. Its so teenage its tragic.
converted lurker said:
Nobody. In the world. Cares about how trick your car headlights look. Its so teenage its tragic.
Obviously manufacturers do, or they wouldn't devote so much effort to the aesthetics of them. In any case, you miss the point, if HE does not like the appearance then that is valid.Compare the e90 3 series with or without xenons. Without looks like a gopping fish, it would annoy me every time I looked at the damn thing.
My boggo M5 has the standard dancing Xenons, but I still acknowledge that to me, it looks slightly more appealing and aggressive with LEDs (not £1600 better mind).
converted lurker said:
Putting the handbags down for a moment the issue is value of these new lights.. Lets be honest ten years from now this forum will have people bhing about how terrible Xenon lighting is, how LED is only marginally better but how awrsome active scanned array doppler fibre optic lazer lights are.
They will still be driving 1.5 ton boxes at 55mph down the same dark roads and still not blindly driving into the hedge like they didnt in the years when halogen 'angel eyes' were the expensive new kid on the block. Its all a F'ing gimmick you dont need.
My opinion which is worth cock all but i share it anyway is that if you choose to spend £1600 on fancy lights for those dark winter months but DON'T spend £1600 on a set of winter tyres and alloys then you are stupid and intent on getting a really good view of your rear end collision right up until the momemt you shatter your Star Wars headlights into a million pieces.
Nobody. In the world. Cares about how trick your car headlights look. Its so teenage its tragic.
hing about how terrible Xenon lighting is, how LED is only marginally better but how awrsome active scanned array doppler fibre optic lazer lights are.They will still be driving 1.5 ton boxes at 55mph down the same dark roads and still not blindly driving into the hedge like they didnt in the years when halogen 'angel eyes' were the expensive new kid on the block. Its all a F'ing gimmick you dont need.
My opinion which is worth cock all but i share it anyway is that if you choose to spend £1600 on fancy lights for those dark winter months but DON'T spend £1600 on a set of winter tyres and alloys then you are stupid and intent on getting a really good view of your rear end collision right up until the momemt you shatter your Star Wars headlights into a million pieces.
Nobody. In the world. Cares about how trick your car headlights look. Its so teenage its tragic.
That about does it !!
Normal lights produce oddles of heat - a lamp at 55w is a fair bit of heat. An LED produces light very differently to a filament bulb. And the LED produces heat at the semiconductor junction that needs to be removed. This heat would other wise damage the semiconductor.
Now with normal lights you get a heating effect on the headlamp that keeps the lense fog free and ice free - however on LED's this isnt the case and you can suffer from lens clouding and icing up. Google it and have a look and you will see that it is indeed an issue.
Now with normal lights you get a heating effect on the headlamp that keeps the lense fog free and ice free - however on LED's this isnt the case and you can suffer from lens clouding and icing up. Google it and have a look and you will see that it is indeed an issue.
converted lurker said:
My opinion which is worth cock all but i share it anyway is that if you choose to spend £1600 on fancy lights for those dark winter months but DON'T spend £1600 on a set of winter tyres and alloys then you are stupid and intent on getting a really good view of your rear end collision right up until the momemt you shatter your Star Wars headlights into a million pieces.
But for some of us (down south), it would be stupid to stick winter tyres on for most of those dark winter months :/ Since £1600 doesn't buy me a Pit crew to switch tyres every time the ambient temp shifts above/below 7C I figure the least stupid thing to do is avoid driving in snow/ice and the rest of the time stick with my normal tyres. But of course I'm always open to suggestions of how I can be less stupid :/Osinjak said:
It's not an irrelevance is it? The OP asked about LEDs not Xenons, not Halogens. I knew of a video clip that demonstrated the capability of LEDs, I posted the clip up to help the OP and nothing else. Turns out the feature is available on Xenons, which I didn't know, so rather than getting all adenoidal about it and telling me 'I'm wrong' (which I'm not) you could just as easily say the feature is available on some Xenons as well.
Jesus H fk. I seriously wonder sometimes why I bother. You can't post anything on this website without someone going you're wrong or you're over the top or whatever. It's a video clip, if you've got something add to it, add to it rather than coming across as a sanctimonious bell end.
Have the thread, it's yours. Fill your boots. I've completely lost interest.
Oh dear, Osinjak is having a right 'mare!! Jesus H f
k. I seriously wonder sometimes why I bother. You can't post anything on this website without someone going you're wrong or you're over the top or whatever. It's a video clip, if you've got something add to it, add to it rather than coming across as a sanctimonious bell end.Have the thread, it's yours. Fill your boots. I've completely lost interest.
He was just pointing out that the selective beam feature is not exclusive to LED lights.
5to1 said:
But for some of us (down south), it would be stupid to stick winter tyres on for most of those dark winter months :/ Since £1600 doesn't buy me a Pit crew to switch tyres every time the ambient temp shifts above/below 7C I figure the least stupid thing to do is avoid driving in snow/ice and the rest of the time stick with my normal tyres. But of course I'm always open to suggestions of how I can be less stupid :/
I am well south of Birmingham and its 9 degrees tonight outside. Its two weeks since August. On wet roads, leaf mulched roads, muddy roads, cold roads, snowy roads, slushy roads and icy roads i will out brake you, out corner you and out accelerate you and your Buck Rogers lights because i have more grip from my better optimised tyres. (Dunlop wintersport D4)
For me its all about performance, not lumens.
If you want i will show you how to use a trolley jack and a torque wrench to change all four wheels in the time it takes to drink a real mans mug of tea. No pit crew required.
Edited by converted lurker on Thursday 11th September 22:18
Edited by converted lurker on Thursday 11th September 22:21
Buzz Lightyear said:
Osinjak said:
It's not an irrelevance is it? The OP asked about LEDs not Xenons, not Halogens. I knew of a video clip that demonstrated the capability of LEDs, I posted the clip up to help the OP and nothing else. Turns out the feature is available on Xenons, which I didn't know, so rather than getting all adenoidal about it and telling me 'I'm wrong' (which I'm not) you could just as easily say the feature is available on some Xenons as well.
Jesus H fk. I seriously wonder sometimes why I bother. You can't post anything on this website without someone going you're wrong or you're over the top or whatever. It's a video clip, if you've got something add to it, add to it rather than coming across as a sanctimonious bell end.
Have the thread, it's yours. Fill your boots. I've completely lost interest.
Way over the top mate.Jesus H f
k. I seriously wonder sometimes why I bother. You can't post anything on this website without someone going you're wrong or you're over the top or whatever. It's a video clip, if you've got something add to it, add to it rather than coming across as a sanctimonious bell end.Have the thread, it's yours. Fill your boots. I've completely lost interest.
Edited by Osinjak on Thursday 11th September 16:53
As Matt said, it's just so people don't think you have to spec the £1600 LED lights to get Selective Beam.
No doubt I'll be called a mong or something similar.
converted lurker said:
I am well south of Birmingham and its 9 degrees tonight outside. Its two weeks since August.
On wet roads, leaf mulched roads, muddy roads, cold roads, snowy roads, slushy roads and icy roads i will out brake you, out corner you and out accelerate you and your Buck Rogers lights because i have more grip from my better optimised tyres. (Dunlop wintersport D4)
For me its all about performance, not lumens.
If you want i will show you how to use a trolley jack and a torque wrench to change all four wheels in the time it takes to drink a real mans mug of tea. No pit crew required.
Well that's fantastic for you, but when I drive (largely during the day, in London) the thermometer shows north of 7C as often if not more often then it shows south of that temp. So while you may perform those fantastic feats to put me to shame with your fantastic winter tyres, I would return the favour just as often. You may enjoy wasting your time drinking sOn wet roads, leaf mulched roads, muddy roads, cold roads, snowy roads, slushy roads and icy roads i will out brake you, out corner you and out accelerate you and your Buck Rogers lights because i have more grip from my better optimised tyres. (Dunlop wintersport D4)
For me its all about performance, not lumens.
If you want i will show you how to use a trolley jack and a torque wrench to change all four wheels in the time it takes to drink a real mans mug of tea. No pit crew required.
Edited by converted lurker on Thursday 11th September 22:18
Edited by converted lurker on Thursday 11th September 22:21
tty tea and fiddling with your poxy jack and wrench, but personally I have better things to do then switching tyres every time the temp goes above/below 7C.I get the feeling you protest a little too much about the buck rogers lights and your demotion to halogens isn't sitting as well with you as you pretend
Jon1967x said:
Just to add, my 6GC has LED lights and foes not have the split light thing, only swivel round corners.
No doubt I'll be called a mong or something similar.
I think any new order with LED lights would have those features though. Older cars, built before they added the new intelligent full beam stuff to the adaptive lights bag of tricks won't. I think it was the increased processing power of the new Nav/Telematics which actually allowed them to deploy the new features, rather then the LED lights which were around before.No doubt I'll be called a mong or something similar.
5to1 said:
Well that's fantastic for you, but when I drive (largely during the day, in London) the thermometer shows north of 7C as often if not more often then it shows south of that temp. So while you may perform those fantastic feats to put me to shame with your fantastic winter tyres, I would return the favour just as often. You may enjoy wasting your time drinking stty tea and fiddling with your poxy jack and wrench, but personally I have better things to do then switching tyres every time the temp goes above/below 7C.
I get the feeling you protest a little too much about the buck rogers lights and your demotion to halogens isn't sitting as well with you as you pretend
Eh there's nothing poxy about my Famex torque wrench - she's a beauty. And its Yorkshire Tea Gold Ill have you know.tty tea and fiddling with your poxy jack and wrench, but personally I have better things to do then switching tyres every time the temp goes above/below 7C.I get the feeling you protest a little too much about the buck rogers lights and your demotion to halogens isn't sitting as well with you as you pretend
If you love yourtrick lights then i am pleased for you, really I am. One of the big reasons for being a devotee of brands such as BMW is being an early adopter of new motoring technology.
For me who does 20,000 miles a year at any time of day or night my very first and very best investment is to be wearing appropriate tyres between November and March. Your entire two tonne car sits on a tyre contact patch smaller than a piece of A4 paper. When hurtling along the fantastic driving roads I am lucky enough to have on my doorstep at dark o' clock (when the roads are empty and 300bhp is deployable properly) it is the tyres that matter to me not the light show. 4 decent halogen lights using premium bulbs in a well designed reflector housing work just fine. Xenons would be a touch better and LED a touch better again. Yes I would like to have them but as I cant afford EVERYTHING on the options list I probably won't. As i said, comfort seats, logic7 and adaptive drive and possibly HUD all sit higher up my want/need list and all those only after winter tyres.
I don't see my 535d as a demotion.
Each to heir own my friends.
I just checked, the landing lights on the Airbuses at work use a 600w halogen bulb that costs about £30:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Q4559X-PAR64-Quartz-Hal...
Two of those seem to work well enough at 160mph when two miles out on approach so probably don't strictly need computer controlled laser lights to navigate the way out ot the car park... ;-)
Edited by converted lurker on Friday 12th September 07:13
converted lurker said:
Eh there's nothing poxy about my Famex torque wrench - she's a beauty. And its Yorkshire Tea Gold Ill have you know.
If you love yourtrick lights then i am pleased for you, really I am. One of the big reasons for being a devotee of brands such as BMW is being an early adopter of new motoring technology.
For me who does 20,000 miles a year at any time of day or night my very first and very best investment is to be wearing appropriate tyres between November and March. Your entire two tonne car sits on a tyre contact patch smaller than a piece of A4 paper. When hurtling along the fantastic driving roads I am lucky enough to have on my doorstep at dark o' clock (when the roads are empty and 300bhp is deployable properly) it is the tyres that matter to me not the light show. 4 decent halogen lights using premium bulbs in a well designed reflector housing work just fine. Xenons would be a touch better and LED a touch better again. Yes I would like to have them but as I cant afford EVERYTHING on the options list I probably won't. As i said, comfort seats, logic7 and adaptive drive and possibly HUD all sit higher up my want/need list and all those only after winter tyres.
I don't see my 535d as a demotion.
Each to heir own my friends.
I just checked, the landing lights on the Airbuses at work use a 600w halogen bulb that costs about £30:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Q4559X-PAR64-Quartz-Hal...
Two of those seem to work well enough at 160mph when two miles out on approach so probably don't strictly need computer controlled laser lights to navigate the way out ot the car park... ;-)
I'm a Coffee man, freshly ground from my Espresso machine If you love yourtrick lights then i am pleased for you, really I am. One of the big reasons for being a devotee of brands such as BMW is being an early adopter of new motoring technology.
For me who does 20,000 miles a year at any time of day or night my very first and very best investment is to be wearing appropriate tyres between November and March. Your entire two tonne car sits on a tyre contact patch smaller than a piece of A4 paper. When hurtling along the fantastic driving roads I am lucky enough to have on my doorstep at dark o' clock (when the roads are empty and 300bhp is deployable properly) it is the tyres that matter to me not the light show. 4 decent halogen lights using premium bulbs in a well designed reflector housing work just fine. Xenons would be a touch better and LED a touch better again. Yes I would like to have them but as I cant afford EVERYTHING on the options list I probably won't. As i said, comfort seats, logic7 and adaptive drive and possibly HUD all sit higher up my want/need list and all those only after winter tyres.
I don't see my 535d as a demotion.
Each to heir own my friends.
I just checked, the landing lights on the Airbuses at work use a 600w halogen bulb that costs about £30:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Q4559X-PAR64-Quartz-Hal...
Two of those seem to work well enough at 160mph when two miles out on approach so probably don't strictly need computer controlled laser lights to navigate the way out ot the car park... ;-)
Edited by converted lurker on Friday 12th September 07:13
Do you change the tyres on the Airbus between November and March?
In London Average Temps are Min ~5C/Max ~10C even in the coldest months. Therefore, unless you only drive in the coldest part of the day, as often as not (probably more often then not) the Winters would probably be the wrong tyre in even the coldest months. (Yes the average low is based on a distribution which will encompass temps either side of 5C, but with an average high of 10C it suggests the temp crosses 7c quite often in the day). Too many people seem to be jumping on the winter tyre bandwagon then bashing others for driving on "dangerous" all weathers, when in fact for many of us winters would actually be a very poor tyre most of the time
5to1 said:
converted lurker said:
I am well south of Birmingham and its 9 degrees tonight outside. Its two weeks since August.
On wet roads, leaf mulched roads, muddy roads, cold roads, snowy roads, slushy roads and icy roads i will out brake you, out corner you and out accelerate you and your Buck Rogers lights because i have more grip from my better optimised tyres. (Dunlop wintersport D4)
For me its all about performance, not lumens.
If you want i will show you how to use a trolley jack and a torque wrench to change all four wheels in the time it takes to drink a real mans mug of tea. No pit crew required.
Well that's fantastic for you, but when I drive (largely during the day, in London) the thermometer shows north of 7C as often if not more often then it shows south of that temp. So while you may perform those fantastic feats to put me to shame with your fantastic winter tyres, I would return the favour just as often. You may enjoy wasting your time drinking sOn wet roads, leaf mulched roads, muddy roads, cold roads, snowy roads, slushy roads and icy roads i will out brake you, out corner you and out accelerate you and your Buck Rogers lights because i have more grip from my better optimised tyres. (Dunlop wintersport D4)
For me its all about performance, not lumens.
If you want i will show you how to use a trolley jack and a torque wrench to change all four wheels in the time it takes to drink a real mans mug of tea. No pit crew required.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 11th September 22:18
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 11th September 22:21
tty tea and fiddling with your poxy jack and wrench, but personally I have better things to do then switching tyres every time the temp goes above/below 7C.I get the feeling you protest a little too much about the buck rogers lights and your demotion to halogens isn't sitting as well with you as you pretend
Secondly, just to try and educate, most winter tyres can be run for a good part of the year, and will outperform summer tyres most of the time between November and March, in many ways. I won't go into more detail, you being stupid and all, as you say. One tyre change a year shouldn't be too onerous, for the benefit gained.
A final thought; why, if you don't do much real driving, do you think Xenons or LEDs are even vaguely necessary?
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