Discussion
Morning all,
I was wondering if there are many 635iCSL or M635iCSL owners on the forum? If so, could you tell me what they're like to live with (servicing costs, reliability, parts prices, can you use them as your daily etc) and also, is there a significant difference in performance between the 2 models?
Thanks
I was wondering if there are many 635iCSL or M635iCSL owners on the forum? If so, could you tell me what they're like to live with (servicing costs, reliability, parts prices, can you use them as your daily etc) and also, is there a significant difference in performance between the 2 models?
Thanks
I don't think there ever was a 635CSL, it's 635CSi. The M635CSi is generally more desirable and so carries a premium over the 635Csi. I'd have thought to use as a daily, you'd be better off with a 635CSi as putting big miles on a M635CSi would devalue it more. Pick of the UK crop is the M635CSi Motorsport Edition of which only 20 were made.
Check out http://www.bigcoupe.com/ for everything you ever wanted to know about the E24 although it is mostly US orientated.
Apart from the obvious (rust, suspension components, A/C, electrics etc.) I believe the weakest mechanical point is the auto gear box.
Check out http://www.bigcoupe.com/ for everything you ever wanted to know about the E24 although it is mostly US orientated.
Apart from the obvious (rust, suspension components, A/C, electrics etc.) I believe the weakest mechanical point is the auto gear box.
The performance difference between the two is perhaps bigger than the 70bhp headline figure suggests. But that's because the two engines are very different in character. The 218bhp M30 in the standard 6er is a low-down torquey cruiser. Great for mooching down autoroutes and cruising around town and well mated to the autobox. The 286bhp, 24 valve M1-derived engine in the M635 is a proper screamer - really excelling at higher revs and a proper flyer. Both great cars, and both great engines, but quite different in character.
There's a substantial price differential. A good 635 is £10k these days. A good M635 is over £20k.
As said, rust is the big killer. If you don't know where you're looking, take someone who does.
Parts supply is plentiful - whether from BMW or from ECP, breakers and specialists.
Fairly reliable, assuming they've been looked after, but they're old cars so need regular care and can throw big bills. Especially beware of the cam chain replacement on the M needed, roughly, every 100k miles.
They're prone to wheel shimmy at 50-60 mph, which can be a range of things but is often brake control arms and bushes.
There's a substantial price differential. A good 635 is £10k these days. A good M635 is over £20k.
As said, rust is the big killer. If you don't know where you're looking, take someone who does.
Parts supply is plentiful - whether from BMW or from ECP, breakers and specialists.
Fairly reliable, assuming they've been looked after, but they're old cars so need regular care and can throw big bills. Especially beware of the cam chain replacement on the M needed, roughly, every 100k miles.
They're prone to wheel shimmy at 50-60 mph, which can be a range of things but is often brake control arms and bushes.
Personally, I wouldn't run one as a daily. But they'd cope. The propensity to rust would put me off using one as a daily driver.
One other thing... On standard wheels, they use metric TRX rubber which is pricy (£350-400 a corner) and useless. Far better to find an imperial solution. I put e31 cross-spokes on my last one. I certainly wouldn't run one as a daily on metric rubber.
One other thing... On standard wheels, they use metric TRX rubber which is pricy (£350-400 a corner) and useless. Far better to find an imperial solution. I put e31 cross-spokes on my last one. I certainly wouldn't run one as a daily on metric rubber.
I have a 635CSi auto and an M635CSi; my 635CSi has the 'M' airdam, boot-lip spoiler and wheelarch extensions so they look near identical apart from ride height. The M30 635CSi and M88/3 M635 engines are chalk and cheese and with the addition of their respective gearboxes give the cars completely different driving characters.
A manual gearbox 635 can be a very nice drive but won't ever be close to an M635; think of an E34 535i manual vs an E34 M5 or a E60 550i manual vs a V10 M5.
The E24 looks are striking, even more so in these days of bland styling. My cars are daily drivers through the dry months and in a school car-park of Pork and Prancing horses always get the greater attention.
Rust is the killer of many, probably most, E24's. If you are a welder buy a 635 but you'll be busy, if you're not a welder be prepared to get to know one very well indeed. Front wings are 500gbp a go (and nobody makes a pattern part) and the inner wings rust at the same horrendous rate. The sills and rear arches are also good for rotting and I always remember a text from my mechanic when my 635 needed a 'little bit of work' - the text read, "A bit of sill welding needed, it seems more solid now we've re-attached the bottom of the B-posts to the rest of the car". Other favorite areas are chassis rails, rear subframe mounting points, diff mount, below the rear lights and sometimes the roof.
For the 635CSi, M30 engines are bullet-proof but check the tappets and banjo bolts (google is your friend). Manual gearboxes seldom fail but the switchable 4hp30 automatic gearbox can suffer internal wiring failures - but these are pennies to fix compared to modern gearbox failures.
For the M635 the timing chain history is key. They're a single row chain doing a lot of work and will fail between 90k and 120k. If they fail and take a few valves and pistons it's about 4.5k of work; a pre-emptive strike will leave a few pence spare from 2.5k - incidentally the same is true of the identically engined E28 M5.
For all E24's the body electrics are quite easy to trace and fix although ageing engine sensors do require some research and reading. As stated earlier, bigcoupe.com is probably the world's best site in terms of articles, knowledge and learned owners.
Hope that helps.
Did I mention they were rather good looking old beasts? Feel free to check my profile
A manual gearbox 635 can be a very nice drive but won't ever be close to an M635; think of an E34 535i manual vs an E34 M5 or a E60 550i manual vs a V10 M5.
The E24 looks are striking, even more so in these days of bland styling. My cars are daily drivers through the dry months and in a school car-park of Pork and Prancing horses always get the greater attention.
Rust is the killer of many, probably most, E24's. If you are a welder buy a 635 but you'll be busy, if you're not a welder be prepared to get to know one very well indeed. Front wings are 500gbp a go (and nobody makes a pattern part) and the inner wings rust at the same horrendous rate. The sills and rear arches are also good for rotting and I always remember a text from my mechanic when my 635 needed a 'little bit of work' - the text read, "A bit of sill welding needed, it seems more solid now we've re-attached the bottom of the B-posts to the rest of the car". Other favorite areas are chassis rails, rear subframe mounting points, diff mount, below the rear lights and sometimes the roof.
For the 635CSi, M30 engines are bullet-proof but check the tappets and banjo bolts (google is your friend). Manual gearboxes seldom fail but the switchable 4hp30 automatic gearbox can suffer internal wiring failures - but these are pennies to fix compared to modern gearbox failures.
For the M635 the timing chain history is key. They're a single row chain doing a lot of work and will fail between 90k and 120k. If they fail and take a few valves and pistons it's about 4.5k of work; a pre-emptive strike will leave a few pence spare from 2.5k - incidentally the same is true of the identically engined E28 M5.
For all E24's the body electrics are quite easy to trace and fix although ageing engine sensors do require some research and reading. As stated earlier, bigcoupe.com is probably the world's best site in terms of articles, knowledge and learned owners.
Hope that helps.
Did I mention they were rather good looking old beasts? Feel free to check my profile
Edited by E24man on Tuesday 16th September 21:08
I bought my 1988 635csi highline in sept 13.
To date I spent:
~£1000 - big service inc all filters/fluids (ATF, coolant, diff, brakes, engine), replaced all discs/pads, LSD replaced with known quiet item
~£1000 - head gasket and exh manifold gaskets replaced, head skimmed/decoked, valves lapped etc
-£1000 - mot, oil change, new injectors and sill rust remediation
It feels more fragile than the 190e I had before. Keep an eye on cooling system (2yr changes).
Highlines have lots of electrical accessories and lots to go wrong. e24 door seals are circa 250/side.
Other than the rust already mentioned, these are great cars and I love owning mine even if I have spent more than the buying price in the first years ownership.
Other drivers/pedestrians even cyclists react positively to the e24, much more so than the 87 Carrera I also drive!
If you're near North London, happy to show you around mine.
To date I spent:
~£1000 - big service inc all filters/fluids (ATF, coolant, diff, brakes, engine), replaced all discs/pads, LSD replaced with known quiet item
~£1000 - head gasket and exh manifold gaskets replaced, head skimmed/decoked, valves lapped etc
-£1000 - mot, oil change, new injectors and sill rust remediation
It feels more fragile than the 190e I had before. Keep an eye on cooling system (2yr changes).
Highlines have lots of electrical accessories and lots to go wrong. e24 door seals are circa 250/side.
Other than the rust already mentioned, these are great cars and I love owning mine even if I have spent more than the buying price in the first years ownership.
Other drivers/pedestrians even cyclists react positively to the e24, much more so than the 87 Carrera I also drive!
If you're near North London, happy to show you around mine.
Edited by cornershop on Tuesday 16th September 23:00
Both my cars still have working leccy aerials, and the white M6's AC still works brilliantly - the blue 635 might have working AC too if I get it converted, all the bits are still trying and there's still some ropey old gas in there somewhere. The M6 air-con cools really well when you figure out what you should do with the vents.
I had a 1989 635CSi Motorsport until a couple of years ago, and really loved it, despite its many many flaws.
Main bad points:
Rust (of course) - these rust very very badly. Mine had new wings about seven years ago, but they were already going. The sills were going, the bootlid, the arches. You name it, it's going to rust.
Window seals - these can go and makes the cabin a noisy place to be. Difficult to fix, and the parts aren't that cheap either.
Gearbox - the automatic box is lousy unless you're on A-roads, town or motorways. The ratios are far too long, which means that if you ever attempt a B road blast, you'll be in 1st and 2nd only. Change downs aren't great and old boxes can be clunky.
Ride - mine was on 17" Style 5s, admittedly, but the ride was pretty crashy. This wasn't helped by worn rear bushes, but these were around £300 to fix at an independent.
Good points:
They look amazing. People love them and you'll get loads of comments all the time.
Interior - highlines have leather everywhere, including the headlining. They are very well built and feel special.
Sound - the engine sounds really great, and it's pretty irresistible.
Practicality - the back seats aren't up to much, but they do exist and the boot is large.
Feel good factor - they just make you feel great when you drive them.
Overall, I would have one again, but I'd want a good late model at around £10k, and definitely a manual. I'd also budget on around £2k a year to keep it in great condition. This car cost nearly £40k in 1989, not far off small Ferrari money. Some parts are pricey and work can be time-consuming.
Main bad points:
Rust (of course) - these rust very very badly. Mine had new wings about seven years ago, but they were already going. The sills were going, the bootlid, the arches. You name it, it's going to rust.
Window seals - these can go and makes the cabin a noisy place to be. Difficult to fix, and the parts aren't that cheap either.
Gearbox - the automatic box is lousy unless you're on A-roads, town or motorways. The ratios are far too long, which means that if you ever attempt a B road blast, you'll be in 1st and 2nd only. Change downs aren't great and old boxes can be clunky.
Ride - mine was on 17" Style 5s, admittedly, but the ride was pretty crashy. This wasn't helped by worn rear bushes, but these were around £300 to fix at an independent.
Good points:
They look amazing. People love them and you'll get loads of comments all the time.
Interior - highlines have leather everywhere, including the headlining. They are very well built and feel special.
Sound - the engine sounds really great, and it's pretty irresistible.
Practicality - the back seats aren't up to much, but they do exist and the boot is large.
Feel good factor - they just make you feel great when you drive them.
Overall, I would have one again, but I'd want a good late model at around £10k, and definitely a manual. I'd also budget on around £2k a year to keep it in great condition. This car cost nearly £40k in 1989, not far off small Ferrari money. Some parts are pricey and work can be time-consuming.
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