E39 suspension gremlin

[SuperHangOn]

Bit of an odd one this. The car is fine until its been running for 1/2hr to an hour or so then the front right wheel/suspension area starts rattling/creaking quite badly. This is even over fairly flat road.

I will jack it up and have a look but any ideas what to look for?

Usually with cars its the other way round - the noise goes once the car is warmed up.

Thanks


Its a V8 BTW

[TheEnd]

Rattling could possibly be the roll bar links, especially if it tends to do it on flat roads when they are fairly unloaded.

I'd try swapping them first as they are pretty cheap.

The topmounts are of a design where I couldn't really see then rattling or creaking.

[Kentish]

Drop links!

[Depthhoar]

Have a look at the centre/outer tie rods of the steering linkage. (6 cylinder E39s have a steering rack but V8 models have a steering box set up). Part of the exhaust is routed quite close to some of these components of the steering linkage and constant heat cycling toasts the nearby tie rod assembly ball joint(s). Other V8 owners with this issue have noticed knocks/noises only after about 30 minutes driving but not when cold.

[FunkySon]

Depthhoar said:

Have a look at the centre/outer tie rods of the steering linkage. (6 cylinder E39s have a steering rack but V8 models have a steering box set up). Part of the exhaust is routed quite close to some of these components of the steering linkage and constant heat cycling toasts the nearby tie rod assembly ball joint(s). Other V8 owners with this issue have noticed knocks/noises only after about 30 minutes driving but not when cold.

I have much the same issue, as it happens, so this solution would be cheaper than replacing the struts which was what I had been contemplating. Are you suggesting that it could be the tie rod on the end that attaches to the hub or the centre section? Or both?

Have already done drop links, roll bar bushes and top mounts. It drives much better as it was all a little tired but I've still got the creaking noise from the front right.

Thanks

Duncan

[Depthhoar]

FunkySon said:

I have much the same issue, as it happens, so this solution would be cheaper than replacing the struts which was what I had been contemplating. Are you suggesting that it could be the tie rod on the end that attaches to the hub or the centre section? Or both?

Have already done drop links, roll bar bushes and top mounts. It drives much better as it was all a little tired but I've still got the creaking noise from the front right.

Thanks

Duncan

Duncan,

Have a look at this on M5board:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-dis...

Centre tie rod seems the likely culprit since you've eliminated most (but maybe not all) of the other potential trouble spots. If you are going to replace the centre tie rod then it's probably sensible to change the outer tie rods at the same time + the bush on the pitman/idler arm thing, part No.6 in the diagram below:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DN22...

If you are going to all the above then remove the whole centre tie rod/outer tie rods assembly from the car in one unit (possible with care) as it makes changing bush no.6 much easier (ie. done on the workbench).

TRW are OE suppliers for the centre tie rod (I've posted about this before and there's a photo of the BMW OE C.T.R. with TRW markings on it). Much cheaper to buy this on the aftermarket than through BMW dealers!
Available here: (dealt with these people and found them good)
http://www.incarmotorfactors.co.uk/en/0126-steerin...

These cars can make you seriously poor but once properly set up they are a fabulous drive.

Hope this helps!

Tom

[SuperHangOn]

Just the replies I was hoping for, cheers all!

Have ordered a TRW centre rod and Lemforder tie rods (from ECP as had cash sitting around in my paypal).

This is the sort of problem where you can waste a small fortune changing perfectly decent parts, and taking the car to a garage rarely increases the odds either, you just get a second punch for labour. I will settle for an educated guess!

[FunkySon]

Many thanks for posting that info Tom. It's much appreciated.

Like SuperHangOn I have also ordered the parts so hopefully we'll be creak free soon.

Thanks

Duncan

[FunkySon]

We have success!

It took me about 3 hours, all told. Once I'd got the old centre link out it was clear that it was well past its best - the passenger side ball joints had seized and the one on driver's side, that was making the noise, moved in some directions but jammed in others - hence the creaking / cracking noise I was getting I suppose.

I couldn't separate the centre link from the pitman / idler arms on the car so took them all out together. Once off the car I then had plenty of spade to get a ball joint splitter on them with the assistance of a big hammer. Despite measuring everything I still needed a trip to Kwik Fit to get the tracking adjusted but now that's done the steering is much sharper and, of course, creak free.

Thanks again to Tom for taking the time to post. Hopefully OP has had similar success.

Duncan

[Depthhoar]

FunkySon said:

We have success!

It took me about 3 hours, all told. Once I'd got the old centre link out it was clear that it was well past its best - the passenger side ball joints had seized and the one on driver's side, that was making the noise, moved in some directions but jammed in others - hence the creaking / cracking noise I was getting I suppose.

I couldn't separate the centre link from the pitman / idler arms on the car so took them all out together. Once off the car I then had plenty of spade to get a ball joint splitter on them with the assistance of a big hammer. Despite measuring everything I still needed a trip to Kwik Fit to get the tracking adjusted but now that's done the steering is much sharper and, of course, creak free.

Thanks again to Tom for taking the time to post. Hopefully OP has had similar success.

Duncan

Well done! It's very satisfying when a problem is finally diagnosed and resolved (no doubt a certain amount of relief, too!)

The general garage trade have difficulties diagnosing problems with these cars due to the complexity of their systems, particularly the suspension, and just start replacing parts at will. I've found specialist independents to be better in this regard but they too can be flummoxed at times.

Recently I've been trying to resolve a slight judder I've been experiencing through the brake pedal on my E39 M5. I didn't feel it all the time and thought it just might be a brake bedding in issue so went through an exhaustive & repetitive pattern of bedding in. Problem seemed to be sorted only to reappear.

All the steering tie rods, suspension arms & anti-roll bar components on the front axle had recently been replaced but not the dampers and associated parts. My BMW indi suggested my problem might be due to an issue with the dampers/top mounts since everything else was new.

I did nothing about this at the time but had to take the car for an MOT at my trusted local garage soon after. He carried out the basic wheel bearing check (rocking and spinning the wheels etc) and found nothing untoward; I got him to check more carefully and sure enough there was a slight vibration/roughness on one hub you could just about feel but not hear.

One set of front wheel bearing later and I have judder-free "brakes". Of course the brakes had been fine all along.... it's just that these cars disguise their faults well! I dread to think how much I would have spent on new dampers, mounts etc not to solve the problem.

(Postscript: all this worrying about the dampers softened me up enough to start thinking about refreshing the suspension with new dampers anyway!)

[SuperHangOn]

FunkySon said:

We have success!

It took me about 3 hours, all told. Once I'd got the old centre link out it was clear that it was well past its best - the passenger side ball joints had seized and the one on driver's side, that was making the noise, moved in some directions but jammed in others - hence the creaking / cracking noise I was getting I suppose.

I couldn't separate the centre link from the pitman / idler arms on the car so took them all out together. Once off the car I then had plenty of spade to get a ball joint splitter on them with the assistance of a big hammer. Despite measuring everything I still needed a trip to Kwik Fit to get the tracking adjusted but now that's done the steering is much sharper and, of course, creak free.

Thanks again to Tom for taking the time to post. Hopefully OP has had similar success.

Duncan

Congrats!

Another result here.

Noises have gone and it feels much tighter. I got a mechanic mate to fit the parts so I can't say how hard the job was. Just need to get the tracking done now.

Cheers for all the help folks


On to the PCV...