535D, LCI, economy - remap needed?
Discussion
gizlaroc said:
Jesus wept, and we are meant to be paying these t
ts £120+ an hour?!!
A fking joke!!
Yes, I know. I will do the temperature check in the morning and see how it goes. ts £120+ an hour?!!A f
king joke!! To be honest, the car went through a health check and they pulled up an oil leak which had been missed by the dealer who sold it (which set me back the better part of £500). If I find that the temperatures are way off - a simple check that even I could do - I'll be having a really big go at them for a half assed checkup!
x12yhp said:
Ok, coolant temp got to 81 after my 12 ish mile motorway run. It was slow in getting there and I suspect it might go further on a longer trip...
The newer engines in the F10 535d must run hotter as the water temp is 100 degrees which is exactly half way on my gauge. If I drive it on give and take roads it can take 6-8 miles to get there. If I'm cuffing along in traffic its a lot longer. Below 100 degrees the mpg is lower once at that point correct operating temp it does very good mpg.
Mine does very good mpg at its normal temp which is rarely ever above 90 and can be hiog 70's for periods (downhill)!. I also took it to the main dealer saying 'its too low'. They said its fine... There IS some internet folklore on stats IMHO - look for BIG differences not 2 or 3 degrees out as no one qualified to comment will say (to my knowledge) what is 'standard'. Hence confusion...
Ken Figenus said:
There is some internet folklore/BS on the 2 stats (mine runs below 90 C but is fine),
It's not folklore. Haha. The car uses its automatic choke based on the readings it gets from these 'stats.
When it is stone cold it takes temperature reading from the two 'stats and the ambient air 'stat. In very cold conditions it is over fuelling by up to 40%, as the car warms up the fuel ratio is lowered until it is running at full temperature.
The early 'stat was 82ºc, this later became 87ºc and the latest version is 90ºc I beleive, maybe 91ºc?
I am not sure how this works out in regard to what the car expects to see, obviously the ecu is coded to see what was installed originally, so if the car was coded to see 82ºc then I am not sure if putting the latest 90ºc one will make any difference at all, I presume not? However, I would guess the later 90ºc cars probably have more issues when the 'stats start to fail, by that I mean if an 82ºc car drops to 75ºc then I bet it makes far less difference to a car that is expecting to see 90ºc.
But it is far from folklore, it is coded into the car and effects fuelling a lot.
If you drove round in your MKI Golf with the choke out constantly you would use more fuel and would expect to, just because it is all controlled electronically these days doesn't mean it doesn't over fuel if the 'choke' is left out.
bigdom said:
That's ok, although near the bottom. Once you don't achieve 75c, the car won't regenerate the dpf
That is the other big thing, the amount of people who are told they need a new DPF who then change 'stats and it regens straight away and is good for another 50,000 miles. They are so important on these modern cars that they should be part of the service schedule imho. Swapped every 60k miles or 4 years.
Welshbeef said:
The newer engines in the F10 535d must run hotter as the water temp is 100 degrees which is exactly half way on my gauge. If I drive it on give and take roads it can take 6-8 miles to get there. If I'm cuffing along in traffic its a lot longer.
Below 100 degrees the mpg is lower once at that point correct operating temp it does very good mpg.
The temp gauge on the F10 is oil temp not coolant temp.Below 100 degrees the mpg is lower once at that point correct operating temp it does very good mpg.
So take it 25 miles and I got to 88. It does take a heck of a time and really it is going to be rare that I drive much more than 25 miles at a time, so that suggests the car just isn't at operating temp for my driving. Does that mean I'm stuffed? Stuck with trying to trade across to a 520d?
Has anyone googled "THERMOSTAT"; just curious?
Typically it's 88C however your BMW has a two stage thermostat so that you warm up quicker and you have lovely demist capabiity soon after start up by restricting flow to the engine only (this also helps mitigate thermal shock). The thermostat is designed to maintain a CONSTANT engine temp. If your temp is below the SETPOINT 88C then it's either still warming up or you have a faulty thermostat. The stat is always either opening or closing to maintain SETPOINT temp.
The cooling system is deigned to get to operating temp ASAP. A faulty thermostat is best diagnosed at constant speed after a reasonable time has elapsed, say 45 mins. if you see fluctuating eng temp you have a problem.
DUCK
Typically it's 88C however your BMW has a two stage thermostat so that you warm up quicker and you have lovely demist capabiity soon after start up by restricting flow to the engine only (this also helps mitigate thermal shock). The thermostat is designed to maintain a CONSTANT engine temp. If your temp is below the SETPOINT 88C then it's either still warming up or you have a faulty thermostat. The stat is always either opening or closing to maintain SETPOINT temp.
The cooling system is deigned to get to operating temp ASAP. A faulty thermostat is best diagnosed at constant speed after a reasonable time has elapsed, say 45 mins. if you see fluctuating eng temp you have a problem.
DUCK
Edited by DuckDuck on Friday 12th December 20:07
Edited by DuckDuck on Friday 12th December 20:08
x12yhp said:
Got it to 83 after 10 miles 50-60mph. Then 13 miles home with the trip computer reset. Cruise control at 70mph, average speed 70mph and economy approx 29.5mpg. Utter crap. I get better than that from my 20 year old 911.
Get your thermostats changed !Mine was doing similar about 3 months after I put pattern ECP stats on it (initially all was fine).
CPC had a look whilst fixing an oil leak and recommended changing to BMW ones.
The ECP pattern part, when closed was still letting coolant through as the cheap materials inside had distorted. I think the the times I did see high 80's temperature was the car trying to regen - aside from that it ran at mid 70s.
Consensus is that these engines should quickly get to mid 80s - certainly within 15-20 mins of starting.
Ref The post earlier about over fuelling when cold . . I certainly see that happening.
I do a daily 25 mile journey from London to High Wycombe.
For 3-4 miles at either end the car is started from cold and does sub 20 mpg in stop start traffic for 20 mins. I then do about 60-70mph where able to on the A/M40 and achieve 34mpg overall.
Transiter said:
Welshbeef said:
The newer engines in the F10 535d must run hotter as the water temp is 100 degrees which is exactly half way on my gauge. If I drive it on give and take roads it can take 6-8 miles to get there. If I'm cuffing along in traffic its a lot longer.
Below 100 degrees the mpg is lower once at that point correct operating temp it does very good mpg.
The temp gauge on the F10 is oil temp not coolant temp.Below 100 degrees the mpg is lower once at that point correct operating temp it does very good mpg.
gizlaroc said:
It's not folklore. Haha.
The car uses its automatic choke based on the readings it gets from these 'stats.
When it is stone cold it takes temperature reading from the two 'stats and the ambient air 'stat. In very cold conditions it is over fuelling by up to 40%, as the car warms up the fuel ratio is lowered until it is running at full temperature.
The early 'stat was 82ºc, this later became 87ºc and the latest version is 90ºc I beleive, maybe 91ºc?
I am not sure how this works out in regard to what the car expects to see, obviously the ecu is coded to see what was installed originally, so if the car was coded to see 82ºc then I am not sure if putting the latest 90ºc one will make any difference at all, I presume not? However, I would guess the later 90ºc cars probably have more issues when the 'stats start to fail, by that I mean if an 82ºc car drops to 75ºc then I bet it makes far less difference to a car that is expecting to see 90ºc.
But it is far from folklore, it is coded into the car and effects fuelling a lot.
If you drove round in your MKI Golf with the choke out constantly you would use more fuel and would expect to, just because it is all controlled electronically these days doesn't mean it doesn't over fuel if the 'choke' is left out.
Some useful info there mate but all this talk of choke on a Diesel engine issue? We have glow plugs! However I have noticed that the engine IS much thirstier when cold so your points is valid if its running super cold.The car uses its automatic choke based on the readings it gets from these 'stats.
When it is stone cold it takes temperature reading from the two 'stats and the ambient air 'stat. In very cold conditions it is over fuelling by up to 40%, as the car warms up the fuel ratio is lowered until it is running at full temperature.
The early 'stat was 82ºc, this later became 87ºc and the latest version is 90ºc I beleive, maybe 91ºc?
I am not sure how this works out in regard to what the car expects to see, obviously the ecu is coded to see what was installed originally, so if the car was coded to see 82ºc then I am not sure if putting the latest 90ºc one will make any difference at all, I presume not? However, I would guess the later 90ºc cars probably have more issues when the 'stats start to fail, by that I mean if an 82ºc car drops to 75ºc then I bet it makes far less difference to a car that is expecting to see 90ºc.
But it is far from folklore, it is coded into the car and effects fuelling a lot.
If you drove round in your MKI Golf with the choke out constantly you would use more fuel and would expect to, just because it is all controlled electronically these days doesn't mean it doesn't over fuel if the 'choke' is left out.
OP doesnt look like its stats with you as your numbers are similar to mine which is bang on spec for mpg. A diagnostic would reveal if you have high backpressure (or stuck EGR etc etc ) - bring it round to meet my laptop or pop to an Indy! You are not getting the torque mountain AND economy deal!
KF
Vee said:
Get your thermostats changed !
Mine was doing similar about 3 months after I put pattern ECP stats on it (initially all was fine).
CPC had a look whilst fixing an oil leak and recommended changing to BMW ones.
The ECP pattern part, when closed was still letting coolant through as the cheap materials inside had distorted. I think the the times I did see high 80's temperature was the car trying to regen - aside from that it ran at mid 70s.
Consensus is that these engines should quickly get to mid 80s - certainly within 15-20 mins of starting.
But my numbers on the temperature don't seem to be that far from expected. It does reliably get to the mid 80s, it will get higher with time and the only minor concern is that it seems to take a bit longer than expected to get there. Others are reporting temps about the same as mine, with good thermostats. What about my info makes you convinced that the thermostats are duff?Mine was doing similar about 3 months after I put pattern ECP stats on it (initially all was fine).
CPC had a look whilst fixing an oil leak and recommended changing to BMW ones.
The ECP pattern part, when closed was still letting coolant through as the cheap materials inside had distorted. I think the the times I did see high 80's temperature was the car trying to regen - aside from that it ran at mid 70s.
Consensus is that these engines should quickly get to mid 80s - certainly within 15-20 mins of starting.
Are BMW engines just slow to get to temp and economy?
x12yhp said:
So take it 25 miles and I got to 88. It does take a heck of a time and really it is going to be rare that I drive much more than 25 miles at a time, so that suggests the car just isn't at operating temp for my driving. Does that mean I'm stuffed? Stuck with trying to trade across to a 520d?
Yes, thermostats need to be done. Should hit over 90 within a couple of miles at <30mph then stay rock-solid in the 90s.Ken Figenus said:
Mine does very good mpg at its normal temp which is rarely ever above 90 and can be hiog 70's for periods (downhill)!. I also took it to the main dealer saying 'its too low'. They said its fine... There IS some internet folklore on stats IMHO - look for BIG differences not 2 or 3 degrees out as no one qualified to comment will say (to my knowledge) what is 'standard'. Hence confusion...
If your temps are dipping to high 70s at any point after the engine should be up to temperature you need your stats done.GreigM said:
Ken Figenus said:
Mine does very good mpg at its normal temp which is rarely ever above 90 and can be hiog 70's for periods (downhill)!. I also took it to the main dealer saying 'its too low'. They said its fine... There IS some internet folklore on stats IMHO - look for BIG differences not 2 or 3 degrees out as no one qualified to comment will say (to my knowledge) what is 'standard'. Hence confusion...
If your temps are dipping to high 70s at any point after the engine should be up to temperature you need your stats done.GreigM said:
If your temps are dipping to high 70s at any point after the engine should be up to temperature you need your stats done.
Dealer disagreed - I even took b dashboard shots of the 70's on the dashboard during the 'throttle closed' descent from Llyn Clywedog to Llanidloes to try to convince them to change them. Also my mpg is GREAT! What gives?Maybe they arent shutting properly?
Cheers
Edited by Ken Figenus on Thursday 22 January 12:56
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