535D, LCI, economy - remap needed?
Discussion
JNW1 said:
Don't disagree but unless I'm misunderstanding the point he's making is that his diesel Skoda hit its combined figure over 20k miles whereas his BMW (and BMW's generally) seem incapable of doing so (with the implication being that BMW's claimed figures are less reliable than those from other manufacturers). I've never had a Skoda and hence can't comment on the mpg for one of those; however, I've had a number of BMW's and can confirm that none of the diesels have been able to get anywhere near their respective combined figures. However, my petrol 335i did get reasonably close - and would exceed it on a run - and best of all in terms of achieving its combined figure was actually my E46 M3 CS!
Yeah, you're misunderstanding the point. 
Unless you drive both cars at 39mph the official figures mean sweet FA.
What they do at 70mph is irrelevant, the test is done at 39mph.
I can gear a car to get 80mpg at 39mph, that doesn't mean I can see 100mpg at 70mph.
What a car gets at 70mph tends to be far more important to most of us than what a car gets at 39mph, hence why the offical figures are useless unless you sit at 39mph, it tells you nothing.
I always here 'it is a fair comparison'. No it's not, it means f
k all to most of us, because most of s don't sit at 39mph on the motorway. My Aygo did around 75mpg at 39mph, sit at 80 and it struggled to hit 35mpg at 80mph.
YOU NEED TO BUY A CAR THAT SUITS YOUR DRIVING,
It really is as simple as that.
Being ignorant is not a good enough excuse to moan imho.
Look at the US tests, far more realistic to real world driving.
JNW1 said:
Don't disagree but unless I'm misunderstanding the point he's making is that his diesel Skoda hit its combined figure over 20k miles whereas his BMW (and BMW's generally) seem incapable of doing so (with the implication being that BMW's claimed figures are less reliable than those from other manufacturers). I've never had a Skoda and hence can't comment on the mpg for one of those; however, I've had a number of BMW's and can confirm that none of the diesels have been able to get anywhere near their respective combined figures. However, my petrol 335i did get reasonably close - and would exceed it on a run - and best of all in terms of achieving its combined figure was actually my E46 M3 CS!
He's quoting figures, not even Skoda appear to list? The combined average (unless I'm missing something) is 50mpg. To be fair, the missus has had 2 of the 170bhp Golfs, in over 200k between the pair of them, they only averaged 40 for something a lot smaller and lighter, obviously taking into account a different driving style.For an unbiased opinion, on the bribriskoda forum here may 'appear' to be a difference between dash & reality? Mid 40's are quoted as being the norm.
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/210568-superb...
"I chauffeured a relative on a tourist run a couple of weeks ago and the Superb dash read 56 mpg. I've only done 3,100 miles and though the dash usually reads 40 to 45, the actual brim to brim average is 38+ true. It's loosening up nicely"
"The last five brim to brim mpg are 44.49, 49.20, 47.48, 50.21, 51.04, each tank giving 539 ,562 466 542 and 573 miles respectively.
The best MFD reading I have had was 63.5 mpg on a 200 mile trip. that equated to 51.04 when refueled to the brim"
gizlaroc said:
Yeah, you're misunderstanding the point.
Unless you drive both cars at 39mph the official figures mean sweet FA.
What they do at 70mph is irrelevant, the test is done at 39mph.
I can gear a car to get 80mpg at 39mph, that doesn't mean I can see 100mpg at 70mph.
What a car gets at 70mph tends to be far more important to most of us than what a car gets at 39mph, hence why the offical figures are useless unless you sit at 39mph, it tells you nothing.
I always here 'it is a fair comparison'. No it's not, it means fk all to most of us, because most of s don't sit at 39mph on the motorway.
My Aygo did around 75mpg at 39mph, sit at 80 and it struggled to hit 35mpg at 80mph.
YOU NEED TO BUY A CAR THAT SUITS YOUR DRIVING,
It really is as simple as that.
Being ignorant is not a good enough excuse to moan imho.
Look at the US tests, far more realistic to real world driving.
I don't disagree with much of the above and I'm prepared to accept that I misunderstood what the OP was trying to say! I thought the point he making was that his Skoda achieved its combined figure over 20k miles of mixed driving whereas his BMW won't (and probably wouldn't even if its problems were rectified); however, my mistake if that's not the message he was trying to convey (although perhaps the OP would like to clarify?).Unless you drive both cars at 39mph the official figures mean sweet FA.
What they do at 70mph is irrelevant, the test is done at 39mph.
I can gear a car to get 80mpg at 39mph, that doesn't mean I can see 100mpg at 70mph.
What a car gets at 70mph tends to be far more important to most of us than what a car gets at 39mph, hence why the offical figures are useless unless you sit at 39mph, it tells you nothing.
I always here 'it is a fair comparison'. No it's not, it means f
k all to most of us, because most of s don't sit at 39mph on the motorway. My Aygo did around 75mpg at 39mph, sit at 80 and it struggled to hit 35mpg at 80mph.
YOU NEED TO BUY A CAR THAT SUITS YOUR DRIVING,
It really is as simple as that.
Being ignorant is not a good enough excuse to moan imho.
Look at the US tests, far more realistic to real world driving.
bigdom said:
He's quoting figures, not even Skoda appear to list? The combined average (unless I'm missing something) is 50mpg.
You are missing something, the combined figure for the 170bhp diesel Superb is 61.4mpg according to the Skoda website. However, I'm not here to defend or substantiate mpg figures for Skodas; I've never owned one and have no way of knowing whether the OP's claim to have averaged 60mpg over 20k miles in his Superb is right, wrong or indifferent! JNW1 said:
bigdom said:
He's quoting figures, not even Skoda appear to list? The combined average (unless I'm missing something) is 50mpg.
You are missing something, the combined figure for the 170bhp diesel Superb is 61.4mpg according to the Skoda website. However, I'm not here to defend or substantiate mpg figures for Skodas; I've never owned one and have no way of knowing whether the OP's claim to have averaged 60mpg over 20k miles in his Superb is right, wrong or indifferent! A chap I work with I asked the other day about his mpg he quoted he gets 55mpg out of a 3ltr Jag diesel XF, I was surprised at how good it was and then went into the cold start and mpg to get to the M way at which point he clarified oh no I just reset it for the motorway not interested in door to door... Oh so the 55mpg isn't the actual mpg the car does then is it, well no I guess not ?!!!
gizlaroc said:
But what the OP has to understand is the official combined and urban figure is based on an average speed of 39mph, do any other speed and official figures mean nothing.
I understand that these figures are somewhat difficult to replicate. However, the economy I am getting (less than 30mpg), which is mostly done at 60mph on motorway with only the first and last mile being in slow traffic, is less than BMW quote as the urban figure. However you argue it, it would be totally unacceptable that the car cannot achieve the quoted urban economy, on a motorway trip. For reference, brim filling over the last week (admittedly I have been doing 70mph, to try to get temperatures checked), indicates that I am getting nearer 25mph than 30mph.
Ken Figenus said:
It DOES - its like the bargain of the century - well over 400 Lb Ft and 40 mpg at 75 :-)
That was why I bought it.... doh.Welshbeef said:
IF he has averaged >60mpg over 20k from 2ltr TDI 170bhp that's an incredible result and should mean he frequently sees 80-90's mpg on motorway averages to negate stop start city driving cold engine driving congestion driving etc. Possible.
A chap I work with I asked the other day about his mpg he quoted he gets 55mpg out of a 3ltr Jag diesel XF, I was surprised at how good it was and then went into the cold start and mpg to get to the M way at which point he clarified oh no I just reset it for the motorway not interested in door to door... Oh so the 55mpg isn't the actual mpg the car does then is it, well no I guess not ?!!!
The economy was good but part of the point I was making was that my normal drive is really not a strain for the vehicle. Yes, I start cold, but going to work means less than 1 mile in town which rarely takes more than 5 minutes, and then nearly 12 miles on the motorway. I am straight into the work estate so no traffic at that end. Driving the motorway at 60mph and the whole thing should setup for superb economy. So, surely, if I can get good economy (relatively speaking) from the Skoda, surely I should be able to get similarly good relative economy (accepting that this is not, absolutely, as high as the skoda) from the BMW.A chap I work with I asked the other day about his mpg he quoted he gets 55mpg out of a 3ltr Jag diesel XF, I was surprised at how good it was and then went into the cold start and mpg to get to the M way at which point he clarified oh no I just reset it for the motorway not interested in door to door... Oh so the 55mpg isn't the actual mpg the car does then is it, well no I guess not ?!!!
Anyhow - update is that I spoke to one local crowd and they were not really convinced that the thermostat was the problem. He reckoned that it would probably be £200 for very little chance of improvement. He reckoned that 30mpg wasn't at all unreasonable. I am going to contact someone else today. I am not looking to get 50mpg, I am not really even needing 40 - but even to jump from 25 to 35mpg is likely to save me £1000 per year.
x12yhp said:
So, surely, if I can get good economy (relatively speaking) from the Skoda, surely I should be able to get similarly good relative economy (accepting that this is not, absolutely, as high as the skoda) from the BMW.
Just to clarify, you're saying your Skoda averaged 60mpg over 20k miles but in the same driving conditions your BMW is doing around 30mpg? If so that really doesn't make sense and does indeed suggest a problem of some sort with your 535d. If your Skoda was doing 60mpg that suggests driving conditions which are relatively kind to the car and favourable for economy; therefore, I would have thought a 535d should be capable of delivering something starting with a 4 driven in the same way in the same road conditions. As you say, a 535d won't deliver the same absolute number but I see no reason why it should be massively adrift from its published figure when your Skoda was hitting its claimed number in the same circumstances.x12yhp said:
Ken Figenus said:
It DOES - its like the bargain of the century - well over 400 Lb Ft and 40 mpg at 75 :-)
That was why I bought it.... doh.Edited by Ken Figenus on Wednesday 17th December 10:10
x12yhp said:
The economy was good but part of the point I was making was that my normal drive is really not a strain for the vehicle. Yes, I start cold, but going to work means less than 1 mile in town which rarely takes more than 5 minutes, and then nearly 12 miles on the motorway. I am straight into the work estate so no traffic at that end. Driving the motorway at 60mph and the whole thing should setup for superb economy. So, surely, if I can get good economy (relatively speaking) from the Skoda, surely I should be able to get similarly good relative economy (accepting that this is not, absolutely, as high as the skoda) from the BMW.
Anyhow - update is that I spoke to one local crowd and they were not really convinced that the thermostat was the problem. He reckoned that it would probably be £200 for very little chance of improvement. He reckoned that 30mpg wasn't at all unreasonable. I am going to contact someone else today. I am not looking to get 50mpg, I am not really even needing 40 - but even to jump from 25 to 35mpg is likely to save me £1000 per year.
Go back to the point you made about the Intercooler and Intake manifold - that is your starting point? You said the performance and mpg was worse after the gasket change/work was done....get this check out??Anyhow - update is that I spoke to one local crowd and they were not really convinced that the thermostat was the problem. He reckoned that it would probably be £200 for very little chance of improvement. He reckoned that 30mpg wasn't at all unreasonable. I am going to contact someone else today. I am not looking to get 50mpg, I am not really even needing 40 - but even to jump from 25 to 35mpg is likely to save me £1000 per year.
If it was OK before and its not now surely checking this out will at least remove that avenue of doubt?
JNW1 said:
bigdom said:
He's quoting figures, not even Skoda appear to list? The combined average (unless I'm missing something) is 50mpg.
You are missing something, the combined figure for the 170bhp diesel Superb is 61.4mpg according to the Skoda website. However, I'm not here to defend or substantiate mpg figures for Skodas; I've never owned one and have no way of knowing whether the OP's claim to have averaged 60mpg over 20k miles in his Superb is right, wrong or indifferent! Edited by bigdom on Wednesday 17th December 11:28
x12yhp said:
However you argue it, it would be totally unacceptable that the car cannot achieve the quoted urban economy, on a motorway trip.
Why? Many don't.
Many get better figures round town than they do sat at 70mph.
Not saying you're 535d should not, but many don't.
My Aygo example above shows this Round town I would see 40+ all day every day, sat at 80mph it would drop to just under 35mpg.
I think your 'stats are f
ked, and you may have issues with your injectors too, but I would buy some 'stats for £100 and swap them on your drive. Too many owners have had this issue on BMW diesels with poor MPG and economy to ignore it, which is what you seem to be doing.
Ken Figenus said:
Yes and that is why people are trying to help you and bothering to give you real world stat readings and other 535d's real world mpg figures etc. Whatever.... doh.
Have you some issue? I've said already what I am doing. I have said what mileage I am doing. I've said I am driving 1 mile in traffic vs 12 at 60 on the motorway. I've said that, for the same trip, my old skoda easily got the quoted mpg. I've given as real world as possible and we concluded, some time ago, that there was something up. The car is booked in with an indi and we will go from there. So where is your issue? Edited by Ken Figenus on Wednesday 17th December 10:10
gizlaroc said:
But also, you had work done and then mpg dropped.
I would be taking it straight back and getting them to look again at their work.
The work was done at the same time that the winter hit. I can't really be definitive. It's hard to demand they fix it when you can't be confident that they caused an issue. Moreover, when they are adamant that nothing about the job could explain poor economy, you are stuck. Fwiw, both the indis agreed with this. I would be taking it straight back and getting them to look again at their work.
x12yhp said:
The work was done at the same time that the winter hit. I can't really be definitive. It's hard to demand they fix it when you can't be confident that they caused an issue. Moreover, when they are adamant that nothing about the job could explain poor economy, you are stuck. Fwiw, both the indis agreed with this.
Have you received quotes in for the stats replacement or just chewing the fat?
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