F30 330d 8 speed auto question

F30 330d 8 speed auto question

Author
Discussion

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
drmark said:
blank said:
From what I can see on the BMW website the 330d produces peak power at 4,000rpm. Which makes changing up at 4,500 sound about right.
I know but Welsbeef thinks bashing into the redline is always best (it is for some cars) and won't listen to anyone who suggests the OP's car is an exception.
In most gears (3rd and beyond) on the 8 speeder a change down equates to around a 500 rev drop that high up (at least in mine) so I agree with you - and BMW.
Here is the sort of calculator BMW use to decide on optimal shift points - bit more complex than wringing its neck.
http://vlsicad.ucsd.edu/~sharma/Potpourri/perf_est...

Edited by drmark on Monday 15th December 20:51
As 3 other posters above (who you conviently refuse to respond) all state that its very clear for maximum acceleration you drive using the highest bhp range that means reving well over max bhp so that the gearchange takes you back into higher revs and therefore higher power.

Its pretty simple.



Not sure what "bouncing off the red line" is all about as these cars do not do that even under max revs Wide open throttle.



You also seem to be totally naive to the fact that in a higher gear you accelerate slower than in a lower gear as the hearing is different so wheel horse power is less in a higher gear than in a lower gear.

Maybe you'll listed to others who do understand rather than call them all idiots.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
smashy said:
whats the point of revving the guts out of a Tractor? RIDE IT!! 3500 hit it,3500 and again etc etc
Because on these cars as the graphs show max bhp is what 4,250 rpm so if you drive it to 3,500 rpm you should have bought a lesser model as you clearly don't want the extra power.

Seriously diesels of 3.5k max power have been extinct for what 15 years wink.


What's the point in reving a Focus ST 2.5ltr over 5.5 k revs red line 7k + as max revs are at 5.5k...

drmark

4,794 posts

185 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
You seem to be arguing around in circles. Here is the reference to hitting the limiter (you said it not me), and below is my answer that you should keep car in peak power zone (as other poster says quite rightly).
Now I really am going. This is futile. Let's all just drive our cars how we like. Sadly BMW won't let you cos its engineers know better wink
byebye


Welshbeef said:
Graph shows otherwise - sure torque falls but the power drop is not that much from peak power. Infact unless the next gear changes up to 3.900 revs then you should continue right up to the limiter then bang into the next gear given this graph.


http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/BMWF13640dEPC.p...

I said:
This graph confirms the point I was trying to make - peak power is 4250 -4500. Peak torque way below that. Ergo change at 4500 max for best progress. Or am I missing something. No point in bouncing off redline in these cars.
At least the 8 speed gearbox understands

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
drmark said:
You seem to be arguing around in circles. Here is the reference to hitting the limiter (you said it not me), and below is my answer that you should keep car in peak power zone (as other poster says quite rightly).
Now I really am going. This is futile. Let's all just drive our cars how we like. Sadly BMW won't let you cos its engineers know better wink
byebye


Welshbeef said:
Graph shows otherwise - sure torque falls but the power drop is not that much from peak power. Infact unless the next gear changes up to 3.900 revs then you should continue right up to the limiter then bang into the next gear given this graph.


http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/BMWF13640dEPC.p...

I said:
This graph confirms the point I was trying to make - peak power is 4250 -4500. Peak torque way below that. Ergo change at 4500 max for best progress. Or am I missing something. No point in bouncing off redline in these cars.
At least the 8 speed gearbox understands
My point is its quicker to drive the car to the red line then change up at lower revs - this will give you maximum acceleration. If you want lower acceleration change up at lower revs.

Also what is this bouncing off the redline? The limiter is 500rpm above the redline there is no bouncing to be done at the redline. You simply drive it to the max revs


Anyway point is if OP cannot rev his car to the redline in tiptronic there is a fault with the vehicle in some form or another And we can carry on the what's the quickest way to drive a car in a different thread if you'd like

drmark

4,794 posts

185 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
My point is its quicker to drive the car to the red line then change up at lower revs - this will give you maximum acceleration. If you want lower acceleration change up at lower revs.

Also what is this bouncing off the redline? The limiter is 500rpm above the redline there is no bouncing to be done at the redline. You simply drive it to the max revs


Anyway point is if OP cannot rev his car to the redline in tiptronic there is a fault with the vehicle in some form or another And we can carry on the what's the quickest way to drive a car in a different thread if you'd like
Jeez Welshy, you know what I mean by bouncing off the red line (ie colloquialism for hitting the limiter) You advocate pushing it "right to the limiter".

I have no problem with accelerating a bit past peak power to drop back to peak power again but in the 3.0d that starts at 4000 ish so why not change at 4500 and drop back to 4000 in the next gear? As BMW seem to have chosen.

Just been out in my car and it won't go above 4600 so mine the same - or near as dammit - as the OP. Must have similar fault wink

Has yours been remapped? Does that lift max revs? Anyway.. this must qualify as THE most boring thread on PH now. Sorry OP. getmecoat



Jon1967x

7,175 posts

123 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef - you were doing so well!

It's not necessarily best to rev to the red line, just to a point above maximum power where the drop in revs takes you to a similar power level but below the max power. You then accelerate through this higher power and back down again.

If the power drops off a lot at high revs (like torque tends to) you'll be outside the sweet spot. That said, car makers are likely to create a red line before you get to those revs.

cerb4.5lee

30,189 posts

179 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
There is no point in going beyond 4.5k, nothing to be gained above that with a diesel engine.
I echo very similar feelings to you know having experienced a 640d and E92 M3, the M3 hardly has any torque but you have to work for the rewards and the rewards are very big ultimately, the 640d has loads of torque but its all too easy and you don't get any reward back from it and the nice noise isn't there either.

Its frustrating and I have said before I wish someone could make an engine that goes like the clappers from 1500rpm but still revs to 8400rpm and that would be awesome as you would get the best of both worlds in that you have loads of low rev urge and top end fireworks too. driving

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
cerb its been a long long time since ive driven a petrol......Ive allways wondered where the airfield is where I can get an M3 manual and get it to 7000 revs in 2nd......youd need an airfield ?????


Shezbo

594 posts

129 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
The most valuable performance part of a diesel engines is it's torque not peak BHP.

The two work in tandem BUT once all the torque and peak BHP - has been exceeded even by 1% - acceleration starts to slow. From that point it is only momentum and the decreasing BHP figure that will power you forward.

This is the fundamental power delivery equation of a diesel engine.

cerb4.5lee

30,189 posts

179 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
smashy said:
cerb its been a long long time since ive driven a petrol......Ive allways wondered where the airfield is where I can get an M3 manual and get it to 7000 revs in 2nd......youd need an airfield ?????

hehe

I have come to realise that it is great having the low end shove of a diesel which in the daily environment is great imo but you don't get much satisfaction back as its all over and done with very quickly, whereas with a sweet revving petrol you do ultimately get more reward for working the petrol hard as you have more revs to play with and a far better sound too.

I find my 330i rewards me more for thrashing the life out of it than it does in the 640d but I like that the 640d is far quicker but in turn it lacks a little drama because the acceleration is so linear and effortless, and I now understand why some on here prefer a 330i to a 335i as a turbo engine whether petrol or diesel ends up taking a little something away I think in some ways.

blank

3,439 posts

187 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
Shezbo said:
The most valuable performance part of a diesel engines is it's torque not peak BHP.

The two work in tandem BUT once all the torque and peak BHP - has been exceeded even by 1% - acceleration starts to slow. From that point it is only momentum and the decreasing BHP figure that will power you forward.

This is the fundamental power delivery equation of a diesel engine.
That makes absolutely no sense. The fundamentals of power, torque and acceleration are exactly that - fundamentals.

It makes no difference what fuel you are burning.

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
smashy said:
cerb its been a long long time since ive driven a petrol......Ive allways wondered where the airfield is where I can get an M3 manual and get it to 7000 revs in 2nd......youd need an airfield ?????

hehe

I have come to realise that it is great having the low end shove of a diesel which in the daily environment is great imo but you don't get much satisfaction back as its all over and done with very quickly, whereas with a sweet revving petrol you do ultimately get more reward for working the petrol hard as you have more revs to play with and a far better sound too.

I find my 330i rewards me more for thrashing the life out of it than it does in the 640d but I like that the 640d is far quicker but in turn it lacks a little drama because the acceleration is so linear and effortless, and I now understand why some on here prefer a 330i to a 335i as a turbo engine whether petrol or diesel ends up taking a little something away I think in some ways.
So cerb where are you going to get this satisfaction?

2nd gear 110mph 7500 revs what is the point and how/when /where in the uk in 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ota-HKToWKU

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/torque.html

Hopefully this clears the matter up for the doubters - unless you want to disagree wth a F1 engineer?

Roo3Stuart

287 posts

159 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
I'm sure the OP has long since lost interest in this thread smile. However, just in case, I checked my 535d tonight - in normal drive it changes up at 4600 with foot to the floor, in Sport setting on the gear box (but left in comfort on the switch) it changes up at about 5500.

Which is faster, I will leave to the experts biggrin

Patrick Bateman

12,143 posts

173 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
smashy said:
So cerb where are you going to get this satisfaction?

2nd gear 110mph 7500 revs what is the point and how/when /where in the uk in 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ota-HKToWKU
110 in second? biggrin Behave, that's km/h.

And for reference, there's plenty of opportunity to get that satisfaction on public roads.

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
Patrick Bateman said:
110 in second? biggrin Behave, that's km/h.

And for reference, there's plenty of opportunity to get that satisfaction on public roads.
yep 70mph in second ,well when your out and about getting satisfaction let me know I like to steer clear of lunatic drivers,(shock horror smily)

Patrick Bateman

12,143 posts

173 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
rolleyes

And you automatically equate that with lunatic drivers? I think you're on the wrong site, maybe this is more up your street-

http://www.brake.org.uk/

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
smashy said:
So cerb where are you going to get this satisfaction?

2nd gear 110mph 7500 revs what is the point and how/when /where in the uk in 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ota-HKToWKU
That driver should learn how to drive an M3 - why is he changing up so early it needs to be rev much higher he is nowhere near max bhp silly boy.

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
Patrick Bateman said:
rolleyes

And you automatically equate that with lunatic drivers? I think you're on the wrong site, maybe this is more up your street-

http://www.brake.org.uk/
Behave,,,trust me I know all about lunatic driving. ..so your up to 70 in second what happens next?Not looking for PH keyboard nonsense I very sadly do not know where you can use this sort of power.I mean im as bad in one way I know that a 2 ltr BMW deisel will give me all the power need, I could go from west london to Gloucester 115 miles in hour and 40 min in one.But i bought a 3ltr because I wanted one,poinless that it is.


Edited by smashy on Tuesday 16th December 22:08

Patrick Bateman

12,143 posts

173 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
Hit the limiter in every gear and run down a load of kids.