E39 Nikasil - BMW payment?

E39 Nikasil - BMW payment?

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Discussion

S3_Graham

Original Poster:

12,830 posts

198 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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Guy at work has an E39 528. Its been looked after by BMW from new, literally everything done by them. its got 43k from new.

Now has a hot start issue which BMW say is Nikasil and that they want £6000 for a new engine.

Now clearly its out of warranty. However BMW did a replacement engine on my '96 328 @ 100,000m in 2001.

What are the chances of escalating this to BMW uk and getting any money from them?

Urban Sports

11,321 posts

202 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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None.

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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Less than none...

S3_Graham

Original Poster:

12,830 posts

198 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
quotequote all
doh, fair enough.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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I suppose you could find a 528 that has had the work done for less than £1k and have the engine transplanted.

tgr

1,129 posts

170 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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Get a second opinion on the nikasil diagnosis, perhaps from a recommended independent.

This could potentially write the car off

Gramrugby

543 posts

207 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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It's time somebody told you the truth, Santa Claus is a fairy tale!

StuntmanMike

11,671 posts

150 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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Gramrugby said:
It's time somebody told you the truth, Santa Claus is a fairy tale!
yikesYour fking joking????????

Sardonicus

18,928 posts

220 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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Get a 2nd opinion..

Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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S3_Graham said:
What are the chances of escalating this to BMW uk and getting any money from them?
Really? The newest this car can possibly be is 13 years old. It has lasted 13 years without an issue, I can't imagine why you think the manufacturer would even contemplate paying for a new engine?

Your 96 car in 01 is rather different given it was only 5 at the time!

g3org3y

20,606 posts

190 months

Thursday 25th December 2014
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S3_Graham said:
Now has a hot start issue which BMW say is Nikasil and that they want £6000 for a new engine.
Usually Nikasil issues manifest as a lumpy idle owing to the leaking cylinder.

Have they compression tested it?

As mentioned above, second opinion worthwhile.

DVandrews

1,315 posts

282 months

Thursday 25th December 2014
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I had the Nikasil problem on a 528i back in 1998, it presented itself as visible oil smoke and resultant heavy oil consumption , the idle was unaffected. BMW replaced the short engine under warranty.

Dave

sparks_E39

12,738 posts

212 months

Thursday 25th December 2014
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Sardonicus said:
Get a 2nd opinion..
This. BMW dealers generally don't know as much as you think about these old cars. Get it to a reputable specialist. The Nikasil issue would have caused a problem long ago if it was ever going to.

S3_Graham

Original Poster:

12,830 posts

198 months

Thursday 25th December 2014
quotequote all
Fox- said:
S3_Graham said:
What are the chances of escalating this to BMW uk and getting any money from them?
Really? The newest this car can possibly be is 13 years old. It has lasted 13 years without an issue, I can't imagine why you think the manufacturer would even contemplate paying for a new engine?

Your 96 car in 01 is rather different given it was only 5 at the time!
The reason being that they rather set a president by 'admitting' Nikasil is an issue and replacing engines under warranty (well out of warranty in both years and mileage) Normally I'd not even bother asking but on a car with such low mileage and that's spent its entire life at BMW I thought they may view this slightly differently! Perhaps even if only from a repeat business point of view as he has 2 other BMW's.

I also didn't say 'BMW need to give him a new engine' it was a simple, do you think they may contribute in the either parts or labour. Maybe someone on here may have had some joy? I'd imagine it would be a short block as per the replacement on my engine and the other mentioned.

Thanks for the tips ref getting a second opinion, will certainly suggest that. Shame if the car was written off, he's had it from new + has only just shelled out for a new engine on his 911!

iSore

4,011 posts

143 months

Friday 26th December 2014
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It depends on what the actual symptoms are. Nikasil issues were caused by too many cold starts, and the M52 units had pretty aggressive cold start fuelling to get them to start - they were easy to flood by firing it up, backing out of the garage and shutting off after 5-10 seconds running. Rather than starting issues they'd start to idle roughly and use loads of oil (often without smoking). By the time starting issues began (caused by lack of compression) the car had been running badly for ages. A mate had a V8 530i E34 that would occasionally not start - all eight plugs out, oil down the bores and off it would go. Without that, it would never have started.

I would get a second opinion with a compression test. If it's got more than 150-160 psi it has more than enough to start.

Cemesis

771 posts

161 months

Saturday 27th December 2014
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A BMW mechanic (independent) friend of mine told me the local dealership diagnosed the same issue with a 130k E39 touring. He bought it off the owner for £300 and the owner went on to buy a new car from the dealership.

Turned out the car was just flooded from multiple starts and moving it around on the drive. He took the plugs out, cranked it for a minute, put them back in and it was fine.

BMW dealers seem to know concerningly little about cars...

iSore

4,011 posts

143 months

Saturday 27th December 2014
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Cemesis said:
A BMW mechanic (independent) friend of mine told me the local dealership diagnosed the same issue with a 130k E39 touring. He bought it off the owner for £300 and the owner went on to buy a new car from the dealership.

Turned out the car was just flooded from multiple starts and moving it around on the drive. He took the plugs out, cranked it for a minute, put them back in and it was fine.

BMW dealers seem to know concerningly little about cars...
Very common. A dealership I once worked at used to recover cars that had no compression. Fuel pump fuse and plugs out spin it over for 20 secs, plugs and fuse back in and off it went. The fuel had just washed the bores.

NotReallyBored

138 posts

143 months

Friday 2nd January 2015
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Used to do the same for a major (Orange) breakdown firm. Had a member convinced by his 'mechanic' that the Cambelt had snapped on a S60 T5, just would not listen. Even became quite tetchy. 20 secs or so with the fuel pump fuse out sorted it, bar a big cloud of unburnt fuel. Did the same to loads of e39's and particularly japanese marques.

Key was to ask the owner if it had previously just been moved to re-park from cold. Would just coat the plugs with petrol and another cold start would add more.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Friday 2nd January 2015
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all of this talk about the car flooding due to being started over and over again to move the car short distances doesn't add up!

That would only occur if the driver is pressing the throttle pedal when starting the car every time (which shouldn't be required with a fuel injection car), putting too much fuel into the cylinders for every start, or there is a problem with the cold-start system not recognising that the engine is hot and operating the cold-start process every time, putting too much fuel into the cylinders for hot starts.

The cars been to BMW who have diagnosed a hot-start problem.

The first thing is that, like them or not, BMW technicians know how to start the cars properly and are highly unlikely to be pressing the throttle whilst starting the car.

Secondly, they should be able to easily tell if the car is operating the cold-start process when the car is hot.

As for the car flooding due to being started over and over again without being run or driven for any amount of time, surely that would be diagnosed as a cold-start problem and not a hot-start problem as the car would not get hot in such a short period of time?

I get the impression that there are a number of well meaning people posting here, but you really need to see the car itself to check it over properly and hook it up to diagnostics to figure out what is really wrong with it as there are too many variables when it comes to these sort of starting problems to be making a judgement over the net.




iSore

4,011 posts

143 months

Sunday 4th January 2015
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4rephill said:
all of this talk about the car flooding due to being started over and over again to move the car short distances doesn't add up!

That would only occur if the driver is pressing the throttle pedal when starting the car every time (which shouldn't be required with a fuel injection car), putting too much fuel into the cylinders for every start, or there is a problem with the cold-start system not recognising that the engine is hot and operating the cold-start process every time, putting too much fuel into the cylinders for hot starts.

The cars been to BMW who have diagnosed a hot-start problem.

The first thing is that, like them or not, BMW technicians know how to start the cars properly and are highly unlikely to be pressing the throttle whilst starting the car.

Secondly, they should be able to easily tell if the car is operating the cold-start process when the car is hot.

As for the car flooding due to being started over and over again without being run or driven for any amount of time, surely that would be diagnosed as a cold-start problem and not a hot-start problem as the car would not get hot in such a short period of time?

I get the impression that there are a number of well meaning people posting here, but you really need to see the car itself to check it over properly and hook it up to diagnostics to figure out what is really wrong with it as there are too many variables when it comes to these sort of starting problems to be making a judgement over the net.
You misunderstand.


We're discussing Nikasil problems on a broader scale. It's a fact that older multivalve BMW engines can easily be flooded by starting it up, running for a few seconds and shutting off. They have fairly extreme cold start fuelling to ensure they start on the button and this can lead to bore wash (low compression) and plain flooding (wet plugs) and both lead to a non start situation. I've seen it and sorted it a hundred times. For bore wash it's plugs out, oil down the bores, spin it on the starter with the fuel pump fuse out and throttle wide open, refit plugs and fuse and away it goes. For the latter it's as above, fuse out, crank over with throttles wide open to dry the plugs off - the car will attempt to start with the fuel present and may even run briefly. When it does, refit the fuse, start it and run it for a couple of minutes.

Nikasil engines are a mixed bag. It was generally the low mileage short trip cars that suffered most (aggravated by high sulphur fuels), whilst high mileage motorway cars didn't. There are still loads of them around still running fine but that's not to say that short trips won't cause damage now because it just might. In the US where fuels had a very high sulphur content, cars like the E36 328i and E39 528i were built with cast iron blocks, only switching to alloy blocks when the steel liner blocks were places in for 1998.

The OP needs to have the car somewhere other than a BMW dealership where it can be compression tested. If the compressions are all even and within spec, it probably has an issue unrelated to bore wear.