E36 Track Car - Square or staggered wheels?

E36 Track Car - Square or staggered wheels?

Author
Discussion

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,593 posts

194 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Interested to find out the ins and outs of this. Is anybody able to advise?

What are the pros and cons of each?

What is the correct size/offset for 17's that won't require any arch work?

Rdawson

152 posts

128 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
TroubledSoul said:
Interested to find out the ins and outs of this. Is anybody able to advise?

What are the pros and cons of each?

What is the correct size/offset for 17's that won't require any arch work?
I think the basic reason for narrower wheels/tyres up front is to make the car a little more biased towards understeer as a safety feature. Wider wheels and tyres up front will naturally help with front end grip, which should reverse out that bias. But it may also affect your steering characteristics.

ftypical

457 posts

118 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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Round wheels. Trust me, they work so much better...

Frances The Mute

1,816 posts

241 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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It very much depends on the car's set-up and your personal preference. It takes a lot of experimentation and you'll invariably find you'll drive around most idiosynchrasies of the car, anyway.

The E36 is a relatively well balanced car with the M3 having changes in the front geometry to promote understeer - assisted by a wider rear fitment.
I ran a square set-up on my 328 track car (235/40R18 with M3 LSD) but did find it was keen to step out at the rear more than when on staggered rims. That said, a softer rear ARB setting would have mitigated that.

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,593 posts

194 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Righto. I'm interested in picking up some of the ex BTCC slicks from eBay, and that would be easier without a staggered setup, but I do wonder whether the M3 has a staggered setup for a reason, i.e. it's better somehow.

robmarrs

235 posts

198 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
TroubledSoul said:
Righto. I'm interested in picking up some of the ex BTCC slicks from eBay, and that would be easier without a staggered setup, but I do wonder whether the M3 has a staggered setup for a reason, i.e. it's better somehow.
If you manage to step it out on slicks, staggered or not, you are likely to be looking at the scenery, I run square ex BTCC slicks (235/620/17) all round on my E34 track car and have yet to break grip significantly, and my car still weighs the same as it left the factory complete with a lardy cake for a driver, it surprises much quicker machinery around the twisty bits with is grip (slicks), poise (coil-overs)and braking ability (Massive Brembos & slicks)!

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,593 posts

194 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Awesome. I'm going to have to wait and see what size wheels I end up with I guess, unless the BTCC tyres are all the same size, which might dictate rim width.

Kawasicki

13,077 posts

235 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
TroubledSoul said:
Righto. I'm interested in picking up some of the ex BTCC slicks from eBay, and that would be easier without a staggered setup, but I do wonder whether the M3 has a staggered setup for a reason, i.e. it's better somehow.
Staggered wheels are usually to help high speed stability, by calming the steering down.

Calming the steering down is not needed as much for an alert driver on a race track, so I would go with all four the same width.

Get decent slicks and they are pretty forgiving over the limit, just make sure your engine lube system can deal with the lat acc. Oh and be careful with hitting biggish kerbs with the inside tyres when your cornering hard, cars roll over way quicker than you expect.

iguana

7,036 posts

260 months

Tuesday 20th January 2015
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I prefer square, can swap wheels & tyres around & is great for slicks as NSF on clockwise tracks takes a battering, esp on the old btcc softy dunlops.




Barvaux928

49 posts

111 months

Tuesday 20th January 2015
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experienced trackers prefer square

andyiley

9,189 posts

152 months

Tuesday 20th January 2015
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Me too, 245 40 17 all round on 8" rims IIRC.

Barvaux928

49 posts

111 months

Tuesday 20th January 2015
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Barvaux928 said:
experienced trackers prefer square
i'don't see myself as experienced tracker btw wink

got this from e46fanatics

i don't like to go too wide for handling feel, but on track 245 or235s is probably fastest

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,593 posts

194 months

Tuesday 20th January 2015
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I think in the short term then, the best plan is to find a set of non staggered 17's from an E46.

Just need to check up on the right sort of rim width for those BTCC tyres. They do run a very big profile though, so rubbing is a concern.

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,593 posts

194 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
Well I haven't bought anymore wheels yet because of other things the car needs, but I've been thinking about this again.

One thing I still don't know, do I need 7.5, 8 or 8.5J all round and also should the wheels have a different offset front to rear to stop the rears being sat too far in? Or would I use spacers? I've never used them before as I've never been keen.

andyiley

9,189 posts

152 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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I have a spare set of 7.5" original (style) motorsport with 245s all round, about 3mm left, and good enough for a few track days. If you are interested pm me.

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,593 posts

194 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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Have dropped you an email.

Output Flange

16,798 posts

211 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
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A couple of things:

- try and find some light wheels. Lots of BMW ones are very heavy. If you can get some E34 M Systems they'd be ideal.

- don't know what the spec if your car is, but slicks will put more strain on everything. If you're running standard bushes etc then keep an eye on them. Some tracks used to not let you use slicks without a cage. Don't know if that's still the case (because I have a cage).

isleofthorns

475 posts

170 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
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et40, 8j all around

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,593 posts

194 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
Output Flange said:
A couple of things:

- try and find some light wheels. Lots of BMW ones are very heavy. If you can get some E34 M Systems they'd be ideal.

- don't know what the spec if your car is, but slicks will put more strain on everything. If you're running standard bushes etc then keep an eye on them. Some tracks used to not let you use slicks without a cage. Don't know if that's still the case (because I have a cage).
Planning to put Powerflex black RTABs and lollipops on before it turns a wheel next. Needs new shocks though! No cage as yet, but will be going in that direction eventually. No slicks yet either. The build is at an early stage!

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,593 posts

194 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
isleofthorns said:
et40, 8j all around
Sounds like I may need a spacer up front if I run the same offset as the rear.