Blown turbo - engine damage? and insurance conundrum
Discussion
Final Update: RESULT!
Quality Manager liased with their inhouse engineer and they agreed that there is no obvious suspension damage to the car.
Engineer has therefore agreed to a cash in lieu payment with a strong recomendation for a geometry check which they will pay for.
They combined the two quotes which reduced the cost of the repair by roughly £800.
Cheque is in transit to me today for roughly £7500.
They are considering how much compensation to pay me and I will find out in a few days.
I expect this to be somewhere in the region of £100 just for my phone bill/wasted time.
+1 for common sense and simple fairness.
-1 for all the haters.
Spoke with complaints team manager and she apologised profusely as I have been consistently been given wrong information, conceded that she was very dissapointed as it should not have gone this far.
1. Engineer is concerned that due to the original side swipe that it may have impacted the wheel and caused suspension damage. No damage to the wheel occured and the car is fine suspension wise so most likely this can be resolved either internally or by an inspection before they hand over cash.
The engineers concerns are nothing to do with the engine repair, the engine repair is totally irrelevent to the claim at this point and is not a blocker to recieving a cash in lieu payment. The main concern with cash in lieu is that the car is repaired safely, they do not want me spending £50 on a body repair and pocketing the cash leaving the car in a dangerous condition if there is in fact suspension damage. (there isn't I can safely say)
2. Because there are two claims, with two individual authorised quotes, there is some confusion over the exact worth of the damage when put together. In theory, where there is overlap, there are some costs savings, eg. the car needing to be resprayed/blended etc...
So they are trying to pick between the two quotes and come up with a cost assuming the two repairs are done simultaneously.
So I wait now on point 1+2, if they can be both resolved then I was given the impression cash in lieu would be authorised.
2. I authorised cosmetic repair to car in order to save rest of money for turbo replacement. Cost £2000~
3. Insurance company then back tracked and said that was incorrect, that the engineers would not authorise a cash in lieu payment because of the mechanical damage which was subsequently disclosed. Despite the fact they have audio recordings of me being told specifically they would give me a cash in lieue.
4. Currently going through complaints procedure. I was offered £50 compensation for the bad advice and an offer to pay the £2000~ bodywork repair bill. When I explained that the £2000 was only part of the loss, I was told that was my decision to have it repaired and so they are only liable for the actual cost of the repair.
My argument is that the loss of value to my vehicle should be compensated for, not the eventual cost of repairs.
Escalating it and making a claim with the ombudsman now.
Because of the time of year, and because we were close to the alps where thousands of people were stranded I took the executive decision to keep driving, i figured a blown turbo isn't the end of the world, the engine was still running and sounding fine, no warning lights.
So keeping a sedate 60mph I carried on. An hour later the engine started to vibrate quite a bit when on the throttle, and I decided at that point to call time and arrange break down. Still no warning lights btw.
So back in the UK now. I'm wondering how much damage there might be to the engine? (still waiting for it to get back)
Also now have a conundrum. The car was due for £8k worth of insurance body work after two no-fault accidents involving trucks swiping both sides of the car. I spoke with insurance company today and they have said they can give me a cheque for £7k and I'm free to do with the car what I want.
Having never been in this situation before I don't know what to do. Obviously I could repair the engine, dunno how much that might cost and then sell the car on. Or perhaps I should just scrap it? Can you get much for a non running car where every body panel is scraped? Or just accept the bodywork repair and then spend my own money to get the engine fixed?
Either way I don't really want the car any more. 2 days nightmare getting home on a car that has been immaculatly serviced and had not even done 60k miles. I do a lot of road trips so I can't be having an unreliable car.
Quality Manager liased with their inhouse engineer and they agreed that there is no obvious suspension damage to the car.
Engineer has therefore agreed to a cash in lieu payment with a strong recomendation for a geometry check which they will pay for.
They combined the two quotes which reduced the cost of the repair by roughly £800.
Cheque is in transit to me today for roughly £7500.
They are considering how much compensation to pay me and I will find out in a few days.
I expect this to be somewhere in the region of £100 just for my phone bill/wasted time.
+1 for common sense and simple fairness.
-1 for all the haters.
- ########################
Spoke with complaints team manager and she apologised profusely as I have been consistently been given wrong information, conceded that she was very dissapointed as it should not have gone this far.
1. Engineer is concerned that due to the original side swipe that it may have impacted the wheel and caused suspension damage. No damage to the wheel occured and the car is fine suspension wise so most likely this can be resolved either internally or by an inspection before they hand over cash.
The engineers concerns are nothing to do with the engine repair, the engine repair is totally irrelevent to the claim at this point and is not a blocker to recieving a cash in lieu payment. The main concern with cash in lieu is that the car is repaired safely, they do not want me spending £50 on a body repair and pocketing the cash leaving the car in a dangerous condition if there is in fact suspension damage. (there isn't I can safely say)
2. Because there are two claims, with two individual authorised quotes, there is some confusion over the exact worth of the damage when put together. In theory, where there is overlap, there are some costs savings, eg. the car needing to be resprayed/blended etc...
So they are trying to pick between the two quotes and come up with a cost assuming the two repairs are done simultaneously.
So I wait now on point 1+2, if they can be both resolved then I was given the impression cash in lieu would be authorised.
- ################
2. I authorised cosmetic repair to car in order to save rest of money for turbo replacement. Cost £2000~
3. Insurance company then back tracked and said that was incorrect, that the engineers would not authorise a cash in lieu payment because of the mechanical damage which was subsequently disclosed. Despite the fact they have audio recordings of me being told specifically they would give me a cash in lieue.
- # This is incorrect information provided to me by call handler. Engineer was concerned about damage to the suspension from original accident.
4. Currently going through complaints procedure. I was offered £50 compensation for the bad advice and an offer to pay the £2000~ bodywork repair bill. When I explained that the £2000 was only part of the loss, I was told that was my decision to have it repaired and so they are only liable for the actual cost of the repair.
My argument is that the loss of value to my vehicle should be compensated for, not the eventual cost of repairs.
Escalating it and making a claim with the ombudsman now.
- #############
- #############
Because of the time of year, and because we were close to the alps where thousands of people were stranded I took the executive decision to keep driving, i figured a blown turbo isn't the end of the world, the engine was still running and sounding fine, no warning lights.
So keeping a sedate 60mph I carried on. An hour later the engine started to vibrate quite a bit when on the throttle, and I decided at that point to call time and arrange break down. Still no warning lights btw.
So back in the UK now. I'm wondering how much damage there might be to the engine? (still waiting for it to get back)
Also now have a conundrum. The car was due for £8k worth of insurance body work after two no-fault accidents involving trucks swiping both sides of the car. I spoke with insurance company today and they have said they can give me a cheque for £7k and I'm free to do with the car what I want.
Having never been in this situation before I don't know what to do. Obviously I could repair the engine, dunno how much that might cost and then sell the car on. Or perhaps I should just scrap it? Can you get much for a non running car where every body panel is scraped? Or just accept the bodywork repair and then spend my own money to get the engine fixed?
Either way I don't really want the car any more. 2 days nightmare getting home on a car that has been immaculatly serviced and had not even done 60k miles. I do a lot of road trips so I can't be having an unreliable car.
Edited by dogzilla on Tuesday 24th March 20:58
Edited by dogzilla on Wednesday 25th March 17:09
Edited by dogzilla on Wednesday 25th March 17:13
2008 120d with 50-60k miles are roughly worth between 9 and 13k.
You have one with a knackered engine and knackered body that you have an offer of £7k for, plus you get to keep it (if I understand correctly, worth confirming this).
Assuming you don't want to break it yourself, which is a big job unless you have the facilities, Ring up some scrap yards and see what they will give you, the metal is worth a little, but not very much, the electrics and interior might be worth something. To be honest, with the history you have, even if it's repaired well and has a new engine, it probably won't be worth more than 9k unless it's very well specked. That does not give you much room to play with after the 7K and scrap value.
You have one with a knackered engine and knackered body that you have an offer of £7k for, plus you get to keep it (if I understand correctly, worth confirming this).
Assuming you don't want to break it yourself, which is a big job unless you have the facilities, Ring up some scrap yards and see what they will give you, the metal is worth a little, but not very much, the electrics and interior might be worth something. To be honest, with the history you have, even if it's repaired well and has a new engine, it probably won't be worth more than 9k unless it's very well specked. That does not give you much room to play with after the 7K and scrap value.
dogzilla said:
We were on the way back from France after Christmas and the wifes 2008 120D lost power on the motorway, turbo started making a horrendous screeching sound before packing up completely.
Because of the time of year, and because we were close to the alps where thousands of people were stranded I took the executive decision to keep driving, i figured a blown turbo isn't the end of the world, the engine was still running and sounding fine, no warning lights.
So keeping a sedate 60mph I carried on. An hour later the engine started to vibrate quite a bit when on the throttle, and I decided at that point to call time and arrange break down. Still no warning lights btw.
So back in the UK now. I'm wondering how much damage there might be to the engine? (still waiting for it to get back)
Also now have a conundrum. The car was due for £8k worth of insurance body work after two no-fault accidents involving trucks swiping both sides of the car. I spoke with insurance company today and they have said they can give me a cheque for £7k and I'm free to do with the car what I want.
Having never been in this situation before I don't know what to do. Obviously I could repair the engine, dunno how much that might cost and then sell the car on. Or perhaps I should just scrap it? Can you get much for a non running car where every body panel is scraped? Or just accept the bodywork repair and then spend my own money to get the engine fixed?
Either way I don't really want the car any more. 2 days nightmare getting home on a car that has been immaculatly serviced and had not even done 60k miles. I do a lot of road trips so I can't be having an unreliable car.
You could......Because of the time of year, and because we were close to the alps where thousands of people were stranded I took the executive decision to keep driving, i figured a blown turbo isn't the end of the world, the engine was still running and sounding fine, no warning lights.
So keeping a sedate 60mph I carried on. An hour later the engine started to vibrate quite a bit when on the throttle, and I decided at that point to call time and arrange break down. Still no warning lights btw.
So back in the UK now. I'm wondering how much damage there might be to the engine? (still waiting for it to get back)
Also now have a conundrum. The car was due for £8k worth of insurance body work after two no-fault accidents involving trucks swiping both sides of the car. I spoke with insurance company today and they have said they can give me a cheque for £7k and I'm free to do with the car what I want.
Having never been in this situation before I don't know what to do. Obviously I could repair the engine, dunno how much that might cost and then sell the car on. Or perhaps I should just scrap it? Can you get much for a non running car where every body panel is scraped? Or just accept the bodywork repair and then spend my own money to get the engine fixed?
Either way I don't really want the car any more. 2 days nightmare getting home on a car that has been immaculatly serviced and had not even done 60k miles. I do a lot of road trips so I can't be having an unreliable car.
Edited by dogzilla on Wednesday 21st January 16:07
Get a quote for engine repair.
Try and get more than 7k as it's surely other insurance companies' money if you were not at fault.
Get sale prices e.g. trade, WBAC and private for fully working car.
Do the maths, if sale price less cost of repairs is a lot more (surely not?! ) than 7k or more plus scrap value, maybe go for it.
But I would.....
Other than trying to get more than 7k, scrap and move on. if you're not happy, you're not happy.
Ok update to the situation...
Called insurance company to confirm details of deal. I was told unequivocally that the two claims had costs agreed and they can give us a cash in lieu payment of roughly £8000. I explained I had booked the car in for engine diagnostics and my plan was to take the payment and fix the engine and then with whatever is left fixed the bodywork.
So now the turbo replacement is booked in at local independent specialist and work starts. They also quoted on the bodywork so that has started also.
Insurance company now tells me they cannot authorise the cash in lieu payment because their engineer cannot guarantee the road worthiness of the car given that they know it has engine problems. So at the moment I'm gonna be out of pocket by quite a bit.
I've been through a manager and now a complaint team member, manager listened to the call and totally agreed with my position as they had misinformed me so he referred to complaints team, now they are investigating.
So not sure where I stand really. The bodywork ended up costing around £2k but it was a repair and not a BMW repair which would have involved replacing panels and making it like new. I certainly would prefer to get it done at the £8k BMW price because it was a no-fault claim and those other b
ds are paying me.
Am waiting to see what the complaints people say now.
Called insurance company to confirm details of deal. I was told unequivocally that the two claims had costs agreed and they can give us a cash in lieu payment of roughly £8000. I explained I had booked the car in for engine diagnostics and my plan was to take the payment and fix the engine and then with whatever is left fixed the bodywork.
So now the turbo replacement is booked in at local independent specialist and work starts. They also quoted on the bodywork so that has started also.
Insurance company now tells me they cannot authorise the cash in lieu payment because their engineer cannot guarantee the road worthiness of the car given that they know it has engine problems. So at the moment I'm gonna be out of pocket by quite a bit.
I've been through a manager and now a complaint team member, manager listened to the call and totally agreed with my position as they had misinformed me so he referred to complaints team, now they are investigating.
So not sure where I stand really. The bodywork ended up costing around £2k but it was a repair and not a BMW repair which would have involved replacing panels and making it like new. I certainly would prefer to get it done at the £8k BMW price because it was a no-fault claim and those other b
ds are paying me.Am waiting to see what the complaints people say now.
dogzilla said:
Insurance company now tells me they cannot authorise the cash in lieu payment because their engineer cannot guarantee the road worthiness of the car given that they know it has engine problems.
This sounds odd, unless the engine trouble either contributed to or was caused by one or more of the side swipes.Assuming it wasn't, and that it happened afterwards, it's really none of their concern.
Yes I made that exact point. I could have taken it to BMW and they would have repaired as per the authorised repair sheet and then I could take the car wherever I wanted for the engine work. Or I could sell it with a duff engine. Its nothing to do with them.
Anyway collected car today. Took it for a spin at night and did about 90 motorway miles, gave it some beans. All seems in order, seems a bit quieter with less turbo whistle.
I'm still dreading dpf problems. The engineer said lots of oil came out the exhaust system, they took it off the car and hung it up to drain it was that bad he said.
Is there anyway I can get a reading on whether it might become an issue?
I am planning a 6000m road trip in may and Id really like to make it without breaking down again
Anyway collected car today. Took it for a spin at night and did about 90 motorway miles, gave it some beans. All seems in order, seems a bit quieter with less turbo whistle.
I'm still dreading dpf problems. The engineer said lots of oil came out the exhaust system, they took it off the car and hung it up to drain it was that bad he said.
Is there anyway I can get a reading on whether it might become an issue?
I am planning a 6000m road trip in may and Id really like to make it without breaking down again
Providing you do relatively long trips in March and April, and there are no dpf problems, then I would have thought you are ok for May and 6000 miles. Otherwise get it replaced or removed at http://www.more-bhp.com/dpf_removal_diesel_particl...
It really depends on the way the turbo failed. Screeching suggests bearing failure. The subsequent loss of power suggests compressor failure following the failure of the bearings. Neither of these things would cause warning lights.
So, did bits start coming off the turbo? If so they are either trapped in the Intercooler, have already made their mark on the engine, or both.
On the insurance, it sounds like they were Writing Off the car as an uneconomic repair. It's generally possible to get bodywork fixed for much less than the costs that apply to insurance repairs, but still.
If you've already got it in the garage, it's probably better to have them take a look inside the turbo to check for swarf. If there's any there, walking away from it is still possible.
So, did bits start coming off the turbo? If so they are either trapped in the Intercooler, have already made their mark on the engine, or both.
On the insurance, it sounds like they were Writing Off the car as an uneconomic repair. It's generally possible to get bodywork fixed for much less than the costs that apply to insurance repairs, but still.
If you've already got it in the garage, it's probably better to have them take a look inside the turbo to check for swarf. If there's any there, walking away from it is still possible.
ftypical said:
It really depends on the way the turbo failed. Screeching suggests bearing failure. The subsequent loss of power suggests compressor failure following the failure of the bearings. Neither of these things would cause warning lights.
So, did bits start coming off the turbo? If so they are either trapped in the Intercooler, have already made their mark on the engine, or both.
Yeah I don't think it was a catastrophic failure, the car was running fine for more than an hour after and the engine sounded just fine apart from having no power and smoke coming from oil in the exhaust I assume. They also replaced some pipework? Which he said was very oily and sooted up. Can't remember which bit have to check the invoice.So, did bits start coming off the turbo? If so they are either trapped in the Intercooler, have already made their mark on the engine, or both.
I will plan to do a few long drives between now and may and see how it goes. If the insurance company do pay out then I might just spend some of the cash and get the DPF bypassed anyway as a pre-emptive. I'm told the turbo should last a bit longer that way?
Oh and if you want a laugh, they just renewed my insurance and hit me for a £3800 bill. As there are still 2 out standing claims on my record, despite the fact both are no-fault claims, they don't get removed from the policy until all money has been recovered from the 3rd party insurance company which could be like 6 months away.
Insurance really is a total con in this country.
D_G said:
If you take the cash in lieu option be prepared for the car to get CAT status, that's what happened when my car was hit whilst parked. This was even after it was agreed it wouldn't get written off as part of the deal.
According to the phone record, I specifically asked would it be registered CAT D, she said no, as the two bodywork claims had already been agreed and were irrespective of the engine problem. So the car was never a candidate for CAT D.OK update from the insurance company:
1. They will pay for the body work repair undertaken by my indepdenent garage.
2. They will give me £50 compensation for giving me incorrect information re: the cash in lieu.
Now to understand some basic facts:
1. Original repair bill authorised and agreed by insurers was £8500 and involved replacing number of body panels and parts to BMW factory standard.
2. When I explained the mechanical issues to the insurance company I was advised and told on no uncertain terms that a cash in lieu payment was agreed and available in this scenario.
3. Based upon their information I authorised a bodywork repair which cost roughly £2000 which was a cosmetic repair not involving any replacement panels
The insurance company are saying they are only liable for the bodywork repair and since it was my choice to have it repaired in a substandard manner that they are only responsible for the bodywork repair bill.
My point is this:
Based upon the information I was given, I opted for a cosmetic repair, knowing full well that it would not be equivelent to a BMW repair, not carry the same guarantees or warranties and would therefore affect the future value of my car. But I compromised on the basis that they would be paying me a cash in lieu payment which could go towards fixing the engine.
Their point is:
They are only liable for the bodywork repair, as I had a bodywork repair for £2000 then they are only liable to pay that amount.
So basically, they gave me wrong information, and now are trying to shaft me. So not only have I got a substandard repair (on two no-fault claims) but also I have loss in value of the car through no fault of my own.
1. They will pay for the body work repair undertaken by my indepdenent garage.
2. They will give me £50 compensation for giving me incorrect information re: the cash in lieu.
Now to understand some basic facts:
1. Original repair bill authorised and agreed by insurers was £8500 and involved replacing number of body panels and parts to BMW factory standard.
2. When I explained the mechanical issues to the insurance company I was advised and told on no uncertain terms that a cash in lieu payment was agreed and available in this scenario.
3. Based upon their information I authorised a bodywork repair which cost roughly £2000 which was a cosmetic repair not involving any replacement panels
The insurance company are saying they are only liable for the bodywork repair and since it was my choice to have it repaired in a substandard manner that they are only responsible for the bodywork repair bill.
My point is this:
Based upon the information I was given, I opted for a cosmetic repair, knowing full well that it would not be equivelent to a BMW repair, not carry the same guarantees or warranties and would therefore affect the future value of my car. But I compromised on the basis that they would be paying me a cash in lieu payment which could go towards fixing the engine.
Their point is:
They are only liable for the bodywork repair, as I had a bodywork repair for £2000 then they are only liable to pay that amount.
So basically, they gave me wrong information, and now are trying to shaft me. So not only have I got a substandard repair (on two no-fault claims) but also I have loss in value of the car through no fault of my own.
Yes I am raising a claim with the ombudsman. I was just hoping anyone else had any experience with this malarky.
My view is that I should be compensated for the loss of damage to my vehicle, NOT the actual cost to repair, as the two can be significantly different especially given I acted upon their specific advise.
My view is that I should be compensated for the loss of damage to my vehicle, NOT the actual cost to repair, as the two can be significantly different especially given I acted upon their specific advise.
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