335d/435d or 535d

[cerb4.5lee]

moffat said:

I was in the market for a new 435d and ruled it out because:

1. The deals on the 640d were so good
2. SE suspension only on the 435d
3. 435d didn't look special enough - similar exhausts to the 420d and they look identical except badge

I wouldn't have gone for a 535d mainly because I didn't need all that space and again I like the fact that there isn't a 20d model of the 6 series making it quite rare and unique.

The interior of the 6 is also epic and a large improvement over the 4er and also my last car (C63 Coupe). The 6er is also loaded as stock and hardly needs any extras if you want to be good.

I also really love the shape of the 6er and I think it is the best looking car in the BMW range.

Agree with so much in this post and when my mate left his brand new 435d on my drive I was also disappointed with the exhaust set up and for some reason I didn't think it quite looked special enough for the list price either(still an epic car though).

I am also on record for not liking the way BMW`s look in general but the 6 series has always turned my head and I think it looks great and the interior is very nice too and one of the few BMW`s that rivals an Audi interior which I think is a nice compliment because they usually wipe the floor with BMW.

For me its just the weight and size and its GT nature that lets the 6 series down a little...but you cant have everything that's for sure.

[Fox-]

moffat said:

I wouldn't have gone for a 535d mainly because I didn't need all that space

IMHO the 6 is obviously the better car anyway but size is an odd reason - the 6 is actually the same length as the 5 but even wider, so is technically the larger car.

[moffat]

Fox- said:

IMHO the 6 is obviously the better car anyway but size is an odd reason - the 6 is actually the same length as the 5 but even wider, so is technically the larger car.

But you realise the 6 is tiny inside right?

Exterior dimensions are the same but the 6 coupe that I have manages to waste all of that

[335d]

tighnamara said:

Have seen the AC Schnitzer springs mentioned previously, did you get these fitted through BMW and does it affect any warranty on other parts of the suspension. Does this sit well with adaptive and x drive ?
Did you also change out the run flats and if so what their did you fit ?
Apologies for all the questions but after running my 330d x drive with adaptive I am still not comfortable with the suspension.

My local BMW dealer fitted them for me at a cost of £650. Some have paid just £500 from a non BMW garage, but I prefer to have everything done at BMW to avoid a buck passing situation. One key reason for choosing ACS, apart from the many positive reports, is that they offer a warranty which dovetails with the existing BMW warranty. In other words, should BMW decide that something is not covered because of the springs, ACS will cover it, or agree with BMW how it should be divided between them.

They work exceptionally well with xDrive and adaptive. Not only does the handling improve a great deal, with better turn in, but so much less weight shifting goes on under acceleration and breaking. The fact that it does this with virtually no impact on the ride suggests to me that BMW got the original springs wrong. The car is so much more composed on the Comfort setting, that there is less need to switch to Sport. Sport is very impressive though.

I use a summer set and a winter set of tyres, so I probably have another season before I have worn out my original Bridgestone Potenza runflats, which are probably the least good of the standard fit tyres. I will fit Michelin Pilot Super Sport non runflats next, as used on the M3, I believe. They offer better ride and handling according to those who have done this. I will be keeping winter runflats though, as not too keen on dark hard shoulders!

If you head over to the F30Post UK forum, there must be 20-30 there who have fitted ACS springs if you want a broader view, but it seems we all have very similar opinions.

ACS fitters including BMW dealers http://shop.ac-schnitzer.co.uk/where-to-order-4-w....

[julian64]

I looked into the AC springs and there is a lot of positive praise for them on the internet, but decided not to.

I didn't understand how simply increasing the spring firmness rating could have half the affects attributed to it. Remember the dampers aren't being changed.

My car has 19" wheels with virtually no rubber on them and the ride is pretty harsh for a road car. I didn't want to make the ride worse changing to a stiffer spring when the car didn't seem to need it.

I didn't understand how people could say that the car was more compliant at the same time as less body roll, because whenever I've changed springs in a car it tends to be a compromise between the two. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[akeithj]

Thank you all for the input, some interesting views have been put forward.I currently have an E93 M3 LE 500 and even though the interior design is looking a little old fashioned, I still think the interior has a quality feel to it that is missing in the 3 and 4 series, maybe a lot of this is down to the soft leather with contrast stitching and the piano black trim., to me it just seems a nice place to be. I do really like the 6 series interior, which looks a cut above the 3/4 and 5 in design.
I have always looked at the 3 and 5 as being fine cars, but primarily business cars, not something that you could get emotionally attached to. I think Moffat summed it up perfectly.
I think the next stage will be to drive a 435/535 and 640d to get a true comparison.

[335d]

Wills2 said:

535d or 640d knock the 335/435 into a cocked hat, no comparison in terms of interior and refinement.

I don't think many 335d/435d owners would dispute that the 535d and 640d feel better made and quieter. If I wanted a motorway barge, I would have gone that way as well. 90% of my driving is on winding country roads though, and for a sense of driving enjoyment there is absolutely no contest. I even considered an M135i, but it was just too small for the family.

I imagine a lot of this comes down to age. As people get older they prioritise comfort over driving experience. When I have some more grey hairs I'll probably be sitting in a 6 series wondering why people would pay almost the same for a 3/4!

[akeithj]

Very true 335d !

[moffat]

335d said:

I don't think many 335d/435d owners would dispute that the 535d and 640d feel better made and quieter. If I wanted a motorway barge, I would have gone that way as well. 90% of my driving is on winding country roads though, and for a sense of driving enjoyment there is absolutely no contest. I even considered an M135i, but it was just too small for the family.

I imagine a lot of this comes down to age. As people get older they prioritise comfort over driving experience. When I have some more grey hairs I'll probably be sitting in a 6 series wondering why people would pay almost the same for a 3/4!

I think you need to drive a 640d to compare.

I've come from a C63 which I admit is far superior in terms of handling, but the 640 isn't that bad and it isn't that much different to a 435d in my opinion and the 4WD and SE suspension really limits the car's potential in my opinion.

435d = 1700kg (figure courtesy of Autocar - http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/4-series/f...
640d = 1735kg (figure courtesy of Autocar - http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/6-series/f...

Oh and I'm 39 years old, so getting on a bit bit hardly grey haired...

[moffat]

Edit the above as I think the real weight of the 640d is 1800kg and Autocar have got it wrong... still not that much difference though.

[apotts]

335d 1705 kg
435d 1700 kg
535d 1810 kg
640d 1800 kg
640d GC 1885 kg

The 5/6 is only 5% heavier than the 3/4. I'd bet that engine output variation is +/- 5% anyway!

Edited by apotts on Wednesday 11th February 11:02

[cerb4.5lee]

apotts said:

335d 1705 kg
435d 1700 kg
535d 1810 kg
640d 1800 kg
640d GC 1885 kg

The 5/6 is only 5% heavier than the 3/4. I'd bet that engine output variation is +/- 5% anyway!

Edited by apotts on Wednesday 11th February 11:02

Interesting how close they all are in weight, I would imagine the 3/4 encourage more spirited driving though because the 6 certainly nods more to the sit back and cruise around driving style I think, and it's not loads of fun to throw around but that isn't really the point of it admitted.

I was surprised how much more fruity the engine sounds in a 435d on the outside and inside when compared to the 640d which is another nod to the 640d being a more chilled out proposition.

[moffat]

The 435d in my opinion just isn't 'sporty' in my opinion and just a straight line weapon - much like the 640d it's lardy.

The 435i on the other hand weighing 1535kg and RWD only is a more exciting proposition for a non-M car.

I do concede that the 640d isn't a fan of B roads as it's just too wide and runflats are terrible.

[apotts]

Moffat,

That's what I found too. In fact none of these cars are sporty, and all have imprecise steering with poor feedback.

Of the ones I drove:

335d: Compact (helps on smaller roads), but soft and imprecise. A bit scary when pressing on.
530d - regular suspension: large and boat like.
530d - M suspension: large, better in corners, a bit bumpy on the motorway.
535d - AD suspension: large, best of the lot in corners, nice and soft on the straight.

AD fixed most of the problems for me, with the exception of dodgy steering and quite a scary feeling when going for it but not cornering (so the car is in soft mode, and it constantly reminds you to back off, rather than go for it).

If any of these cars are bought as fast barges (rather than sports cars), then they really are very good indeed. I prefer the 5 for the quietness and quality (so to me a better barge) - the 6 was just a bit too pricey for what I wanted to spend, and I have a bizarre personal issue with 20" wheels that are about 2 feet wide.

[knitware]

Noone mentioned the 330d?

The 330d (or 335i) M Sport with AC Schnitzer springs gives the best compromise for comfort, speed, economy and rear wheel drive fun, want a driving experience to enjoy then forget the x drives.

[smashy]

apotts said:

Moffat,

That's what I found too. In fact none of these cars are sporty, and all have imprecise steering with poor feedback.

Of the ones I drove:

335d: Compact (helps on smaller roads), but soft and imprecise. A bit scary when pressing on.
530d - regular suspension: large and boat like.
530d - M suspension: large, better in corners, a bit bumpy on the motorway.
535d - AD suspension: large, best of the lot in corners, nice and soft on the straight.

AD fixed most of the problems for me, with the exception of dodgy steering and quite a scary feeling when going for it but not cornering (so the car is in soft mode, and it constantly reminds you to back off, rather than go for it).

If any of these cars are bought as fast barges (rather than sports cars), then they really are very good indeed. I prefer the 5 for the quietness and quality (so to me a better barge) - the 6 was just a bit too pricey for what I wanted to spend, and I have a bizarre personal issue with 20" wheels that are about 2 feet wide.

apotts I need to buy you a pint ,you say the suspension is a bit scary when pushing on...I got hammered for saying its bordering on dangerous,nearly lost it on the outside lane of the M25 ,changed my 330ds standard suspension which the xdrive has to AC Schnitzer springs AND dampers and its a different world.That suspension is diabo;ical.

[Wills2]

The issue is the 3 and 435d are not sporty or refined enough so fall into the middle ground.

I don't know why BMW have set the fastest non M car they make up this way, they could/should be brilliant to drive

[cerb4.5lee]

moffat said:

The 435d in my opinion just isn't 'sporty' in my opinion and just a straight line weapon - much like the 640d it's lardy.

The 435i on the other hand weighing 1535kg and RWD only is a more exciting proposition for a non-M car.

I do concede that the 640d isn't a fan of B roads as it's just too wide and runflats are terrible.

Yes I agree and the main issue is diesel and sporty just don't go together that's for sure, I do like the 435i and I didn't realise it only weighed that much and roughly about the same as my E90 330i...still heavy but not as bad as some of the BMW range.

The run flats are lousy as you say and they are far worse in the 640d than they are in the 330 and they are bad enough...I just hate the things and I cant wait to swap for normal tyres.

[335d]

apotts said:

335d: Compact (helps on smaller roads), but soft and imprecise. A bit scary when pressing on.
530d - regular suspension: large and boat like.
530d - M suspension: large, better in corners, a bit bumpy on the motorway.
535d - AD suspension: large, best of the lot in corners, nice and soft on the straight.

The ACS springs make the 335d significantly better than a 330d with M Sport springs in terms of handling and precision of steering, and makes the 530d M Sport feel like a house boat. I haven't tried adaptive on a normal 5 series, just M5s which are different in other respects.

I can certainly see the point of the 535d, and if I was required to spend my life trudging along the motorway, I may well have made the same choice.

[335d]

moffat said:

The 435d in my opinion just isn't 'sporty' in my opinion and just a straight line weapon - much like the 640d it's lardy.

The 435i on the other hand weighing 1535kg and RWD only is a more exciting proposition for a non-M car.

I do concede that the 640d isn't a fan of B roads as it's just too wide and runflats are terrible.

The 435i is 1600kg with an auto box, and 1585kg in manual form. The 35i engine is a bit disappointing though. Thankfully the 40i which replaces it in 4 months is a huge leap forwards apparently.