335d/435d or 535d

[Wills2]

Welshbeef said:

Wills2 said:

It's 5K for the Hartge tune, you'd seriously spend that for 60-70hp?

When I looked and it was discussed on another thread it was c£2k ish.
£5k I believe is incl new exhaust rims other bodywork new dials etc all BMW badges replaced with Hartage.

Birds do something like it too but the point is you cannot get a RHD M550d the 535d is the fastest derv there is on offer. What if you'd like more... Which clearly no one needs but were folk who are into cars and some into making then even faster.

Ah my mistake, was looking at the M5 tune, you're correct 2k for the 535d.

[tjlees]

REALIST123 said:

tjlees said:

REALIST123 said:

Out of interest, I set off today, from stone cold in an ambient of 6 degrees, in Eco pro. Didn't go over 1500 rpm or about 45mph and reached 100 degrees oil temp in 7 miles.

Might be something wrong with mine. I tried again Friday am, the outside temp was 0.5c but it still wasn't until towards the end of the journey did the needle finally point to 100. The trip is about 19.5miles. I go down two fairly long steepish hills with gradual rise in the middle and fairly flat at the very end.

I going to try in comfort mode tomorrow - I'm not going to go OCD but if people here are saying around 8 miles to hit 100c oil temp, and I'm around 19-20 miles something is wrong.

I think that would be a good idea, it doesn't sound right. Others will know better, but it sounds like a stat problem, not unheard of if I remember correctly?

Finally the conclusion to this is I'm ok. A lot of other people have the same characteristic on the forums dedicated to bmer f30s, particularly if it's cold. Though the evidence is far from conclusive, and ignoring petrols which run hotter, it seems 3 series m sports provide more frontage for cooling and more cooling away for 335ds. Additionally I have the factory fit towbar which apparently gives me extra cooling for towing purposes.

Weirdly one guy pointed that he had flaps on his 5 series that closed the radiator off during warm up.

The other thing that was good but did not correlate to the slow warm up, was fact that I got in car heating within a few minutes. That will be an electrical heater in the system then.

[shim]

My F11 535d is about 2 weeks away, probably just being loaded onto a ship in Hamburg etc

[akeithj]

JNW1 the car did have standard suspension. The 535D is a lovely car and totally different to the Touareg, but after a number of sports/performance cars over the years, I just feel like something different. I am getting increasingly fed up with the condition of the roads and the amount of traffic on them and unless you get up early and head for the countryside driving is not as enjoyable as it was a few years ago. Last year we drove to Southern Spain from Northern England a round trip of over 4000 miles and Northern Spain reminded me what driving should be like, beautiful scenery, first class uncrowded roads and virtually no speed cameras, it was a fantastic trip. Then we arrived back in the UK and after negotiating the M25 with its variable speed limits we were on the A1 in the pouring rain, chock full of wagons pulling out at the last minute, it was impossible to average more than 55 MPH, it was at that point that I thought about going down the diesel route, initially with the X3 and 335/435/535d. I had not even considered the Touareg, until I got an email about the March promotion and decided to have a look. As I have said previously I went with the expectation that I would hate it, but came away very impressed, true it's no sports car in the handling stakes, but it's not slow and has a comfortable well insulated ride, with good visibility and all of the toys you could want as standard........I must be getting old!. I have not made a final decision yet as the lease rates on the 530/535 have just dropped significantly, but must admit I am leaning towards the Touareg, just because its something completely different to what I have been used to.

[tjlees]

Merc c class 220d is your answer if you after the ride, comfort and quality. Monthlies are similar to 535d. Another alternative is the new jag xe.

[JNW1]

akeithj said:

JNW1 the car did have standard suspension. The 535D is a lovely car and totally different to the Touareg, but after a number of sports/performance cars over the years, I just feel like something different. I am getting increasingly fed up with the condition of the roads and the amount of traffic on them and unless you get up early and head for the countryside driving is not as enjoyable as it was a few years ago. Last year we drove to Southern Spain from Northern England a round trip of over 4000 miles and Northern Spain reminded me what driving should be like, beautiful scenery, first class uncrowded roads and virtually no speed cameras, it was a fantastic trip. Then we arrived back in the UK and after negotiating the M25 with its variable speed limits we were on the A1 in the pouring rain, chock full of wagons pulling out at the last minute, it was impossible to average more than 55 MPH, it was at that point that I thought about going down the diesel route, initially with the X3 and 335/435/535d. I had not even considered the Touareg, until I got an email about the March promotion and decided to have a look. As I have said previously I went with the expectation that I would hate it, but came away very impressed, true it's no sports car in the handling stakes, but it's not slow and has a comfortable well insulated ride, with good visibility and all of the toys you could want as standard........I must be getting old!. I have not made a final decision yet as the lease rates on the 530/535 have just dropped significantly, but must admit I am leaning towards the Touareg, just because its something completely different to what I have been used to.

I think it's easy to be convinced by the merits of a diesel on a test drive but living with one as a permanent replacement for an M-car is another matter. I'm sure there are people who've done it and are reasonably happy but quite often you find the petrolhead who's using a diesel as their daily driver has access to something else for fun (whether that be a weekend car, a track day car or even a motor bike). An M3 to a Touareg is quite a change so if it's going to be your only car I'd say think carefully before you jump!

[tjlees]

JNW1 said:

I think it's easy to be convinced by the merits of a diesel on a test drive but living with one as a permanent replacement for an M-car is another matter. I'm sure there are people who've done it and are reasonably happy but quite often you find the petrolhead who's using a diesel as their daily driver has access to something else for fun (whether that be a weekend car, a track day car or even a motor bike). An M3 to a Touareg is quite a change so if it's going to be your only car I'd say think carefully before you jump!

+1

Really? An M3 to a VAG towrag diesel as your daily? If you have track car hidden the garage then maybe, otherwise no.

As good as the x35d and vag are, if I didn't need the 4wd, towing capacity or do 25k miles/pa, I would be straight back to a proper M car - M6 V10 or e46 M3 for me

[akeithj]

I take your points guys, however I have been in this position before a few years ago, I went from 3 M3's in a row over a six year period (2xE36 1E46) to an X5 3 litre diesel and enjoyed that for about 18 months and then got into another X5, however shortly after that the market changed and there were no longer 12 month waiting lists for X5 and the prices were starting to soften, I was also feeling the need for speed again and bought a Porsche Boxster S.

The M3 was my first BMW in years and I am enjoying it, but sometimes it nice to see what else is out there. I do quite like the look of the new C class, but if it's going to be diesel it will have to be a six cylinder. There is not a Mercedes diesel that I would choose over the 535D, I just do not think their engines are as good as BMW.

I was equally impressed with the VAG unit, I am going to arrange another test drive, just in case my initial impressions were wrong as I went into the test drive expecting to hate it and came away impressed.

[tjlees]

Try it on the twisties. it won't be a Porsche Boxster but at least you can gauge how good it is. You obviously someone who likes his performance cars

[JNW1]

akeithj said:

I take your points guys, however I have been in this position before a few years ago, I went from 3 M3's in a row over a six year period (2xE36 1E46) to an X5 3 litre diesel and enjoyed that for about 18 months and then got into another X5, however shortly after that the market changed and there were no longer 12 month waiting lists for X5 and the prices were starting to soften, I was also feeling the need for speed again and bought a Porsche Boxster S.

The M3 was my first BMW in years and I am enjoying it, but sometimes it nice to see what else is out there. I do quite like the look of the new C class, but if it's going to be diesel it will have to be a six cylinder. There is not a Mercedes diesel that I would choose over the 535D, I just do not think their engines are as good as BMW.

I was equally impressed with the VAG unit, I am going to arrange another test drive, just in case my initial impressions were wrong as I went into the test drive expecting to hate it and came away impressed.

Ok, you're obviously going in with your eyes open so good luck with whatever you choose!

[PHlL]

Coming from Volkswagen prior to BMW (all be it Passat's and Tiguan's mainly), after having a Touareg for a 2 week holiday I can vouch that they are very nice cars. Well equipped, comfortable, good road presence, and I quite like the understatedness about them. Most people just think it's a Tiguan and really surprised at the quality of it.

Downsides are economy, and is an old 8 speed VAG auto rather than a smooth DSG or a BMW ZF Auto box.

If I try and take my majorly biased hat off, I think I'd still go for a 535d on basis that it will just be as comfortable, well equipped, and will be much better on your European holidays. I do 4 myself a year and knowing it will good to drive on the continent is an important thing.

However, I can completely understand your wanting a bigger car mindset. I've told myself I don't need one as it's just me, but I really think I'm going to order an X4 as soon as our system allows. Hmm.

[akeithj]

Phil, thank you for your input, it's nice to hear from someone who has first hand experience. To be honest if the PCH prices on the Touareg had not been cut by over £100 per month I probably would not have considered it, but now it makes more sense to give it a try......decisions decisions!

[julian64]

tjlees said:

+1

Really? An M3 to a VAG towrag diesel as your daily? If you have track car hidden the garage then maybe, otherwise no.

As good as the x35d and vag are, if I didn't need the 4wd, towing capacity or do 25k miles/pa, I would be straight back to a proper M car - M6 V10 or e46 M3 for me

Never really understood this. I came from an M5 E39 to a 335d after ten years. Although different, I find them equally engaging for different reasons. I think for a petrol head there is always something to find to have fun with no matter what the car.

I recent bought a £500 citroen saxo 1.1 for my son to learn to drive in. I drove him home from the buy, and I was cackling with laughter at the gearbox effort needed to keep it at a respectable speed and the corners were a complete hoot of understeer.

I could quite happily use that car as a daily drive for a couple of months to improve the sort of gearchange that becomes lazy in a large capacity motor.

[335d]

julian64 said:

I came from an M5 E39 to a 335d after ten years. Although different, I find them equally engaging for different reasons. I think for a petrol head there is always something to find to have fun with no matter what the car.

I made the same move from an E39 M5 to an F30 335d, although with 13 years and quite a few cars in between, and I agree completely with this. The 335d lacks some of the rawness and involvement of the M5, which made you work to extract its performance, but the is still a hugely satisfying car to drive. The combination of that engine with the ZF8 box and xDrive makes it amazingly quick off the mark. Since I changed the springs to AC Schnitzer ones, I think the 335d also handles a little better than the M5, although I haven't driven the older car since 2002.

I still find myself taking the long way home in my 335d, much as I did in the M5, and for me, that is the real hallmark of a fun car. I regret selling the M5 too early, as I do with a Mk2 Golf GTI a decade before, and I don't want to make the same mistake with this one.

[Welshbeef]

335d said:

I made the same move from an E39 M5 to an F30 335d, although with 13 years and quite a few cars in between, and I agree completely with this. The 335d lacks some of the rawness and involvement of the M5, which made you work to extract its performance, but the is still a hugely satisfying car to drive. The combination of that engine with the ZF8 box and xDrive makes it amazingly quick off the mark. Since I changed the springs to AC Schnitzer ones, I think the 335d also handles a little better than the M5, although I haven't driven the older car since 2002.

I still find myself taking the long way home in my 335d, much as I did in the M5, and for me, that is the real hallmark of a fun car. I regret selling the M5 too early, as I do with a Mk2 Golf GTI a decade before, and I don't want to make the same mistake with this one.

Please say you kept the M5 make it the second car the one the special lady you never dispose.


It might now be quicker but the noise it makes is stunning

[JNW1]

335d said:

julian64 said:

I came from an M5 E39 to a 335d after ten years. Although different, I find them equally engaging for different reasons. I think for a petrol head there is always something to find to have fun with no matter what the car.

I made the same move from an E39 M5 to an F30 335d, although with 13 years and quite a few cars in between, and I agree completely with this. The 335d lacks some of the rawness and involvement of the M5, which made you work to extract its performance, but the is still a hugely satisfying car to drive. The combination of that engine with the ZF8 box and xDrive makes it amazingly quick off the mark. Since I changed the springs to AC Schnitzer ones, I think the 335d also handles a little better than the M5, although I haven't driven the older car since 2002.

I still find myself taking the long way home in my 335d, much as I did in the M5, and for me, that is the real hallmark of a fun car. I regret selling the M5 too early, as I do with a Mk2 Golf GTI a decade before, and I don't want to make the same mistake with this one.

I like my F31 335d and rate it as a very competent and capable machine; however, for me it's still a tool to do a job rather than an object of desire. It's probably every bit as quick as my old M3 CS in a straight line (at least up to 100mph) but in terms of being an engaging and fun car to drive it's not in the same league IMO; it's big and heavy and feels it if you try to push on a twisty road. Don't get me wrong, it's suiting my purposes quite nicely at the moment but if I was doing a lower annual mileage and didn't need the carrying flexibility for people and dogs I'd have far rather had one of the last of the E92 M3's. Doesn't make me right of course, just my opinion!

[Wills2]

JNW1 said:

I like my F31 335d and rate it as a very competent and capable machine; however, for me it's still a tool to do a job rather than an object of desire. It's probably every bit as quick as my old M3 CS in a straight line (at least up to 100mph) but in terms of being an engaging and fun car to drive it's not in the same league IMO; it's big and heavy and feels it if you try to push on a twisty road. Don't get me wrong, it's suiting my purposes quite nicely at the moment but if I was doing a lower annual mileage and didn't need the carrying flexibility for people and dogs I'd have far rather had one of the last of the E92 M3's. Doesn't make me right of course, just my opinion!

Just to confirm what you already know, I got 28mpg out of the M5 today over a 400 mile run, just .5mpg off the combined, they are indeed much closer to the official figures than the diesels, and it's still tight at 1550 miles on the clock.

[tjlees]

julian64 said:

tjlees said:

+1

Really? An M3 to a VAG towrag diesel as your daily? If you have track car hidden the garage then maybe, otherwise no.

As good as the x35d and vag are, if I didn't need the 4wd, towing capacity or do 25k miles/pa, I would be straight back to a proper M car - M6 V10 or e46 M3 for me

Never really understood this. I came from an M5 E39 to a 335d after ten years. Although different, I find them equally engaging for different reasons. I think for a petrol head there is always something to find to have fun with no matter what the car.

I recent bought a £500 citroen saxo 1.1 for my son to learn to drive in. I drove him home from the buy, and I was cackling with laughter at the gearbox effort needed to keep it at a respectable speed and the corners were a complete hoot of understeer.

I could quite happily use that car as a daily drive for a couple of months to improve the sort of gearchange that becomes lazy in a large capacity motor.

I have to say the 335d is one of the few mass produced cars that has made me smile ... its the Q car debadged image combined with the blistering performance, grip and handling on the twisties. However the M6 V10 had presence, noise, more feedback and feel, RWD - it gets all five senses tingling - a special car for me.

yep slow FWD are fine - my fiesta is also a hoot .. but not on a motorway journey and not really special.

[JNW1]

Wills2 said:

Just to confirm what you already know, I got 28mpg out of the M5 today over a 400 mile run, just .5mpg off the combined, they are indeed much closer to the official figures than the diesels, and it's still tight at 1550 miles on the clock.

No need to rub it in!!

[cerb4.5lee]

JNW1 said:

Wills2 said:

Just to confirm what you already know, I got 28mpg out of the M5 today over a 400 mile run, just .5mpg off the combined, they are indeed much closer to the official figures than the diesels, and it's still tight at 1550 miles on the clock.

No need to rub it in!!

we all have to put up with a nasty oil burner and Wills gets an engine that not only goes like the clappers but returns decent mpg too!

I suppose it serves us tight gits right though!!