Cheap Estate Sleeper?

[adam277]

I've been looking at buying a 2.5/2.8 Estate; as I can't be driving a 1 litre polo about without a bag over my head.
I'm young with no NCD so insurance is quite high for me but I can get quite reasonable insurance as a named driver with the 2.5/2.8. The 3litre is out of my grasp though as I don't want to pay £250 a month.
Ideally looking for a manual as I've never driven a automatic; and from what I hear they aren't quick off the mark? I really want my first car to be a v6.

My main question is should I be concerned about the mileage on some of these? I like this one
http://www.gumtree.com/p/bmw/rare-bmw-withe-528i-i...
But 168k seems a lot. Also what would be the best one to get; there are so many variants of the the BMW estates, what one is best i.e fastest.
I've seen 5 series and 3 series estates listed but I have no idea what is best. My budget is about £2000


Edit: Before all the angry replies.
I do have a BMW R1150GS so I do like the brand and touring cars/bikes
I have a Ford Transit 2.5 TDCI so although this will be my first car it wont be my first vehicle.

Edited by adam277 on Monday 2nd March 08:11

[andyiley]

Well, the first issue you have is that BMWS don't make a v6.

all 2.5's are the same performance, all 2.8's are the same performance, there is no difference between sport or SE etc.

These cars do take their mileage well, so 168 per-se is not an issue.

As you say 2k is your budget I am guessing you are looking at e39 shape cars (96 - 03) in wich case electrics are more of a potential worry.

They have LOTS OF ELECTRONICS & not all of it is reliable, so check every single piece of electrical equipment, check it again, check it again, and after that check it again. Ensure you check the EXACT sequence of abs/esc lights on start up etc also, as MANY of these need new ABS ECUs at cost of £800 unless you know where to go.

Edited by andyiley on Monday 2nd March 08:25

[adam277]

I mean straight 6 then.

Edited by adam277 on Monday 2nd March 08:37

[Technomad]

E36 or E46 328i Touring - brilliant, both of 'em and still move with commendable alactrity. Relatively little goes wrong (usually): all the E36 cars that suffered from sulphur-based bore failure will have been long fixed under warranty. Intake thermostats are a weak spot; one resistor can go in the climate control unit (easy fix); rear springs tend to break; by now, pretty much anything will need rebushing and a damper refresh (again, not desperately expensive). Watch out for corrosion at bottom of doors and in front wings if the drain holes have been blocked. Power steering pumps can go beyond 100k miles. Had my E36 for 12 years from new with no major problems - I never regretted not taking the extended warranty.

3-series, then as now, weren't quite as well made inside as the 5-series - the door cards particularly could have bits fall off every so often. Dashes were fine though.

Edited by Technomad on Monday 2nd March 20:51

[loskie]

If you are the MAIN driver you should not just be a NAMED driver. The insurance co's are wise to this and when you need it they will crush you giving long term future problems with insurance costs.

[adam277]

Well I'm 23 at the moment I want too start collecting my NCB when I am 25 as it will cost me about £1200 a year to insure a £300 Ford Ka. fk insurance companies.

[LordHaveMurci]

loskie said:

If you are the MAIN driver you should not just be a NAMED driver. The insurance co's are wise to this and when you need it they will crush you giving long term future problems with insurance costs.

That took much longer than expected.

[andyiley]

adam277 said:

Well I'm 23 at the moment I want too start collecting my NCB when I am 25 as it will cost me about £1200 a year to insure a £300 Ford Ka. fk insurance companies.

Yes, but the issue is not the £300 value of your Ka, but the £1M value of the Veyron you could total, and the £3m lawsuit for damages of the driver, passenger & 2 dead schoolchildren in the bus queue next to it that costs the money!

[jboy72]

loskie said:

If you are the MAIN driver you should not just be a NAMED driver. The insurance co's are wise to this and when you need it they will crush you giving long term future problems with insurance costs.

I am the policy holder of my ex-partner's car. She is the MAIN driver and also the NAMED driver (as I am the policy holder). She also owns the car and is the registered keeper. I accrue the NCB. The car is kept at my ex-partner's address. I can drive the car whenever I want to as I am the policyholder, but rarely do. There is nothing "dodgy" about this - as confirmed by my mainstream insurer.

[pits]

adam277 said:

Well I'm 23 at the moment I want too start collecting my NCB when I am 25 as it will cost me about £1200 a year to insure a £300 Ford Ka. fk insurance companies.

This is probably one of the silliest things I have ever read, your insurance wont get cheaper when you hit 25, it's a myth, by the time you hit 25 you should have close to 5 years NCD, so your insurance will be cheaper based on that.

You want to front the policy as well, which is highly illegal and really not worth trying as you wont be the only one who ends up in st.


As for the car itself.
It's expensive to start with.
Alpine white isn't a great colour on the E39, ahh but it is an individual you say, it has zero spec.
No aircon
No multi function wheel
I think it may be on 15" wheels, which is pretty rare but it means it is also an early one, so
Boot floor will be rusty
Rear arches rusty
Front wings rusty
Sills rusty

The only thing it really has going for it is the interior, which may be worth something to someone as it is electric, as is the trim.


And it isn't a sleeper, the 528i isn't fast, it isn't slow but by any means, but it is not a sleeper.


If you're dead seat on owning a BMW try an E34 in 518 or 520i guise as you may be able to insure that and be legal.

[S3_Graham]

pits said:

This is probably one of the silliest things I have ever read, your insurance wont get cheaper when you hit 25, it's a myth, by the time you hit 25 you should have close to 5 years NCD, so your insurance will be cheaper based on that.

You want to front the policy as well, which is highly illegal and really not worth trying as you wont be the only one who ends up in st.


As for the car itself.
It's expensive to start with.
Alpine white isn't a great colour on the E39, ahh but it is an individual you say, it has zero spec.
No aircon
No multi function wheel
I think it may be on 15" wheels, which is pretty rare but it means it is also an early one, so
Boot floor will be rusty
Rear arches rusty
Front wings rusty
Sills rusty

The only thing it really has going for it is the interior, which may be worth something to someone as it is electric, as is the trim.


And it isn't a sleeper, the 528i isn't fast, it isn't slow but by any means, but it is not a sleeper.


If you're dead seat on owning a BMW try an E34 in 518 or 520i guise as you may be able to insure that and be legal.

Agree with a lot of that. best cheap BMW atm i'd say is the E46 though.

[pits]

I didn't even notice the huge dent in the rear arch.

I wonder who didn't spec this car?
"So you want our new E39 sir? Individual as well, nice ok lets run through the options, colour?"
"White"
"Interior"
"Beige, but I want the doors half black"
"Steering wheel the same?"
"yes"
"multifunction wheel obviously"
"No, I don't want that"
"Oh, well I am going to have to ring this through, as I don't think we can do that....ok options?"
"Electric seats"
"So we have a fully specced car, no multifunction with electric seats, anything else?"
"yes, the aircon, remove it, put the st stereo in it, I probably wont want the CD player, radio 4 is fine, make sure it is the standard beige seats, 15" wheels please"
"so you want a brand new E39 in individual spec, with no spec? You could just buy that one over there, same spec as you have asked for"
"no thanks, it has aircon"


dafuq?

[andyiley]

I have to admit, now that I have looked at the advert, I have NEVER seen a poverty spec, top spec, individual spec bmw before!

I NEVER would have thought anyone would spec up such a beast!

DO NOT BUY THIS CAR UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!

Oh, and by the way, all that has been said above about insurance, you SERIOIUSLY need to re-consider your options!

[TheEnd]

It's most likely an ex police car, and originally came with black cloth seats.

[adam277]

pits said:

You want to front the policy as well, which is highly illegal and really not worth trying as you wont be the only one who ends up in st.

Well, the policy holder will be driving it at as I will. So It's not illegal. Will he be the main person driving it all the time? How will they know.
As for the 25 thing. Insurance compare sites seem to disagree.

[loskie]

adam277 said:

Well, the policy holder will be driving it at as I will. So It's not illegal. Will he be the main person driving it all the time? How will they know.
As for the 25 thing. Insurance compare sites seem to disagree.

you will be fine you are obviously far cleverer and far better resourced than any insurance company. Do you not think that their investigators use social media nowadays to find out info in result of a claim?
Look at the guys who have wrecked cars on track days then claim a RTA on the roads; they were prosecuted for fraud.

[adam277]

loskie said:

you will be fine you are obviously far cleverer and far better resourced than any insurance company. Do you not think that their investigators use social media nowadays to find out info in result of a claim?
Look at the guys who have wrecked cars on track days then claim a RTA on the roads; they were prosecuted for fraud.

Thank you, I had a feeling I was smarter but now you have confirmed it. I Have a feeling my sentiments are wasted on you guys though.
That being said I was asking about a sleeper car for insurance reasons so I probably deserved it.

I share a van with my Dad and will share a car with him he will be down as the main driver for both. Will he be the actual main driver for both? How do I know. As insurance companies don't have a box for that I feel the obvious choice is to tick the box that lowers my premium. If it makes you feel slightly better I drive my motorbike mainly and I have NCB building up on that.

I'll stop replying to this as I am sure there are many discussions about insurance already; I am not going to be lying on my insurance though lol.
A lot of young people go on there parents insurance btw guys. It's not a massive thing.

Edited by adam277 on Wednesday 4th March 09:40

[devnull]

adam277 said:

loskie said:

you will be fine you are obviously far cleverer and far better resourced than any insurance company. Do you not think that their investigators use social media nowadays to find out info in result of a claim?
Look at the guys who have wrecked cars on track days then claim a RTA on the roads; they were prosecuted for fraud.

Thank you, I had a feeling I was smarter but now you have confirmed it. I Have a feeling my sentiments are wasted on you guys though.
That being said I was asking about a sleeper car for insurance reasons so I probably deserved it.

I share a van with my Dad and will share a car with him he will be down as the main driver for both. Will he be the actual main driver for both? How do I know. As insurance companies don't have a box for that I feel the obvious choice is to tick the box that lowers my premium. If it makes you feel slightly better I drive my motorbike mainly and I have NCB building up on that.

I'll stop replying to this as I am sure there are many discussions about insurance already; I am not going to be lying on my insurance though lol.
A lot of young people go on there parents insurance btw guys. It's not a massive thing.

Edited by adam277 on Wednesday 4th March 09:40

You learned them good, boy.

[pits]

TheEnd said:

It's most likely an ex police car, and originally came with black cloth seats.

Individual stamp on the pictures, would need vin code to check.

adam277 said:

Well, the policy holder will be driving it at as I will. So It's not illegal. Will he be the main person driving it all the time? How will they know.
As for the 25 thing. Insurance compare sites seem to disagree.

They will look at it like this
"23 year old has wrapped up that 528i, he is down as not being the main driver, he doesn't insure anything else" Fronting is a big concern these days and all the insurance company has to say is "I don't believe you, you prove to me you're not the main driver" you will stand there in court, wet your pants, start crying because you have no answer or proof that can be reasonably submitted, you could implicate your dad into your failure even more if you wanted.

What do you think a judge would say in court when you submit what little evidence you have?

As someone who got to 25 and went past it, insuring my own vehicles in my own name as a main driver, I can tell you the following
You start at 18 and your insurance is stupidly high
Next year it comes down a few quid
Next year it comes down a few quid
You get to 25, your insurance has come down because you now 7 years no claims, that can be protected, your insurance comes down a tiny bit more than the year before, but your insurance has been falling for the previous 7 years.
After 25 your insurance pretty much stays the same.

But obviously you know better, being over 25 and all that, right? I mean you have lived through that and done it, right?

adam277 said:

Thank you, I had a feeling I was smarter but now you have confirmed it. I Have a feeling my sentiments are wasted on you guys though.
That being said I was asking about a sleeper car for insurance reasons so I probably deserved it.

Yes because insurance companies don't have access to the rating system for cars, regardless of what you think is a "sleeper" the insurance company look at the rating for the car and decide from there on what you should pay.
At 23ish I had a Mitsubishi Legnum VR-4 by all accounts an actual sleeper, an estate car with 280bhp and 4wd, it was still a group 20 car, the BMW was around Group 16 IIRC, or group 33 now, the insurance company knows how much power it has, it isn't under their radar.

adam277 said:

I share a van with my Dad and will share a car with him he will be down as the main driver for both. Will he be the actual main driver for both? How do I know. As insurance companies don't have a box for that I feel the obvious choice is to tick the box that lowers my premium.

Actually insurance companies do have a box for that, it asks "Are you the main driver of the vehicle" you then need to honestly say if you're or not, or you commit fraud, so your obvious box is the one that could land you in jail, good one.

adam277 said:

If it makes you feel slightly better I drive my motorbike mainly and I have NCB building up on that.

Actually it bears no relevance to me as I couldn't really care less, but if you must know most companies will not accept bike no claims on a car policy and vice versa, I know this because I have a car and bike policy

adam277 said:

I'll stop replying to this as I am sure there are many discussions about insurance already; I am not going to be lying on my insurance though lol.
A lot of young people go on there parents insurance btw guys. It's not a massive thing.

No it is a massive thing, you will be lying as you want the car for yourself, you are not going as the main driver ergo you're fronting.
Your policy gets cancelled
Your dad's policy gets cancelled
You both have committed insurance fraud
You now both have to tick that box which says "have you ever had a policy cancelled"
You now get to fill in the section that says
"Do you have any pending convictions"




Sorry but you're a moron of the highest standards, you clearly know the world better than everyone on here who has seen the world, but you haven't got a fking clue about anything and it is clearly apparent in your posting style those BMW's with their V6 engines, a 528i being a sleeper, it's slow as fk the only thing sleeper about is that you can sleep in the back, or behind the wheel when you get so bored of how slow it is (for the record I loved my 528i, but christ it was thirsty and slow)

Either you're a really bad troll or you are really this stupid.

[Mario149]

Guys, I think people should ease up a bit here. Should he tick the main driver box? Arguably. But if it's roughly 50/50 usage i.e. him and his dad are both using the car in roughly equal amounts, especially if he's riding his bike for for day to day stuff as well and is the main rider on there, it's pretty kosher.

Coming from the other side, I'm a named driver on my gf's car but have ended up doing about 10x the mileage she's done in it despite the fact it's more expensive to be in her name